Idiot creates close call on range today - Page 2

evan1293 · April 9, 2009, 05:19 AM

Quote:

safty

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as an add on there is to much "combat" style shooting,the new shooter wants to shoot fast and many why??learn to shoot acuratly then and only then move on to the next stage.

The problem with eliminating any kind of rapid fire from ranges is that it keeps people at the basic level. When people are ready to advance, often they can't because many/ most ranges only allow slow fire.

Good shooters, if allowed to become such, can still maintain a high degree of accuracy while shooting quickly.

bigautomatic · April 12, 2009, 07:56 AM

Its really up to all of us to keep things safe. If a range has multiple shooting areas/ranges, a single RO can't be everywhere at once, and there are more folks that are new to our sport coming to the ranges than ever. I find that small public ranges that don't employ an RO can be the most dangerous, and thats where the more experienced folks need to step up and help educate the less experienced with safety issues.
On the other hand, some folks are indeed simply dangerous to be around. Wether it be in a car, at the range, or in hazardous working conditions. They don't want your help, and things can escalate quickly with this type of person. In this case, you just have to use your own judgement. I have packed up and left public ranges more than once. Self preservation has to kick in at some point.

MAGNUMKASH · April 12, 2009, 06:05 PM

He would have been thrown off in about 10 seconds at the range where I RSO. I do not tolerate stupidity.

FM12 · April 12, 2009, 08:43 PM

Stupid is as stupid does, Forrest Gump. My favorite "gumpism".

bababooey32 · April 13, 2009, 03:56 PM

Hellbilly,

Was that Red's North or South? I've been to the Suth location...kinda creeps me out for some reason. I'm still a newb, but I am vigilant about gun safety, perhaps to the point of paranoia.

I even point loaded magazines away from others!

The RO at Red's south didn't seem to pay much attention when I was there. As for rapid fire, 1 round per second appears to be fine at Reds...

Brian Pfleuger · April 13, 2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

From what I heard they had a young lady come in pay to take to shooting lessons rented a gun bought ammo took the shooting course. When the instructor turned around she put the gun to her head pulled the trigger and missed

I've known some really bad shots in my life, heck, my brother couldn't hit a deer broad-side at 15 yards, but how in the world do you miss YOURSELF? That seems like an "I don't r-e-a-l-l-y want to die." moment.

camogun · April 14, 2009, 08:47 AM

I have the greatest respect for R Lee Ermy and I always watched Mail Call. But,I wish he would of put a disclaimer on his show that instructed people to have some respect for their shooting ranges by cleaning up after themselves.There are some fools that try to imitate R Lee by using watermelons as targets. That can be fun as long as people remove their targets when they are done shooting. I just can't stand having gnats and fruit flies hovering around me while I'm trying to site in my rifle. If these people would use alittle common sence and show some respect by helping to keep the range clean,then we can all enjoy our shooting time.Also if people would act responsible and mature when handling firearms then we won't have any incidents that will give the Antigunners any ammo to use against us.

SigSauerIsBetter · April 24, 2009, 11:19 AM

Amen brother.

fatboy02 · May 4, 2009, 06:11 PM

a couple of months ago I was at my CPL class, we got down to the range for that portion of the class there was some idiot spotting a target from three feet next to it for a guy trying to site in a scope on a .22 rifle!

. Could not beleve it, They left after a short conversation with the instructor.

Hellbilly5000 · May 4, 2009, 06:15 PM

bababooey it was reds south

TEDDY · May 5, 2009, 11:24 AM

arm does not have to clean up it is done by others after the shooting stops.
NRA match rules =low fire 30 minutes/timed fire=30 seconds/ rapid fire 10 seconds.
better to be slow and accurate than fast and miss.
many police shoot as fast as they can and dont hit.
50 shots fired two hits,woonsocket RI.
can you keep all shots in 4" at 50 ft?
no wonder there is a shortage of ammo.

oldone · May 5, 2009, 12:02 PM

Is double tapping considered rapid fire?

Bongogator · May 6, 2009, 12:37 AM

There is a free range about 60 miles away. It's a pretty long drive to shoot. It's in the woods and most of the time it's great. There were these morons that couldn't shoot a broad side of a barn. So, they threw some can's about 10ft on the ground and started shooting. Sand and dirt flying everywhere. And all over everyone shooting. I'll give him credit, he did hit it twice out of 11. LOL! The last few times, it has been packed and you have to wait.

That was just the last straw. Now, I shoot indoors where the lighting is bad and your gun get's too hot to fast. It's only a max of 50 yards. But, I will take what I can.

Yes, double tapping is rapid fire.

JohnLaird · June 1, 2009, 01:39 PM

I must be living in a closet. The worst thing that I have encountered was a fat bubba with a tacticool AR-15 shooting at one of my targets.

J.Smith · June 2, 2009, 08:56 AM

Seems like you run into 3 types of people at ranges. Fake thugs/gangsters who shoot sideways and out of their lane and are removed quickly, tacticool folks who are more or less safe, but you still have to laugh at the 10 pounds of junk bolted and taped to that Ruger 10/22, and then the average shooter. Everyone has accidents, but in my experience the fake thug gangsters ans guys trying to show off for their girlfriends are the most dangerous.

Brian Pfleuger · June 2, 2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Everyone has accidents,...

I'm either not everyone or you have a strange definition of accident. The only accident I've ever had at the range is missing my POA. I'm guessing most others here would take exception from your statement as well.

J.Smith · June 2, 2009, 03:18 PM

Taken out of context. Accident meaning in life, it just seems like those types of people have accidents when handling firearms.

HKFan9 · June 2, 2009, 09:21 PM

Ill admit I made a newbie mistake once upon a time. My range is a free public one so you get all kinds of nut cases up there. I had just made my transition from rifle shooting to handgun shooting and I knew all the safety rules such as clear and hot, down or downrange, never handle a weapon while people are down range, loaded or not, however, I did not know your only allowed 6 rounds in a handgun at the range. So there I am, HK USP 9mm in hand, 15+1 one, making sure it fed ok

. I was told nicely that I could get in trouble with that many rounds, and its never been a problem since.

Skans · June 10, 2009, 10:26 AM

Although it's been a long time since I've been a newbie to shooting, I remember very well my first shooting experiences. The first thing I learned was "HOT" "COLD" meant. I can honestly say that I've never, EVER done one of the following while handling a gun or shooting at a range:

1. "sweep" an area with the muzzle of my gun
2. point a gun at an individual
3. walk out on a range when it was still HOT
4. have an accidental discharge while shooting or while cleaning my guns
5. shoot anything that wasn't down range
6. have a gun hit me in the face for not holding it properly
7. suffer any injury or cause injury to others as a result of shooting

I started shooting .22 rifles when I was 7 years old and handguns when I was about 14. My parents didn't own guns so I had to get my training elsewhere. Gun Safety is a mindset made up of a very healthy dose of respect, ritual, setting and following personal safety rules and other people's rules, no matter how stupid you may think they are.

jon_in_wv · June 11, 2009, 08:02 AM

There are two ranges close to my house.
One is a state owned range run buy a master shooter who enforces pretty strict rules. He allows me to shoot ass fast as I like on the pistol range but slowfire only on the rifle range with no high capacity mags. ( He is setting up another shooting area for rapid shooting rifles like my AK. ) The range is clean, safe, and I have had very few problems there. I avoid it right before deer season when all the yokels come out to sight in their deer guns but other than that it is a great place to shoot. Pistol range up to 50 yards and rifle range up to 1000.
The other is also a state owned range but there is no range master, no one watches the range. Its covered with trash and spent brass. I've seen every safety violation there is at this place. People walk downrange on a hot range, they don't sweep the firing line with their muzzle they will just have their muzzle pointed at you and don't give it a second thought. One day I went to that range and there was a guy shooting at a target at the 100 yard berm. The 50 yard berm is right next to it and there were two guys standing down range about 10 feet from the target shooting. So the guy at the 100 was shooting right past their heads at his target. They told me to go ahead and start shooting, they didn't mind, "Just don't shoot us, ha ha". I told them the easiest way to assure that was if I didn't do anything that STUPID. I'd wait until they were done. They all got mad, put their guns away, and left. That was probably the smartest thing they did all day.

Composer_1777 · June 30, 2009, 07:04 PM

The range i go to is strict and helpful (outdoor) it was my buddies first time shooting and the Range master came and gave him a session on shooting just out of common courtesy. Very awesome range and they won't even let you sit rifles down without the chamber locked and on the rack. Guess i'm lucky... jesus.

Ozzieman · July 4, 2009, 10:14 AM

Had the opposite of yours several weekends ago at our range.
Range director called a cease fire and put up the sign and every one got up from there long guns and several people walked down range to work on there targets,,, I was one of them.
I was placing a target on the back board and started hearing some yelling behind me.
Looked behind, there was this gentleman on his bench, gun on his shoulder looking down the scope at the target. He was setting two positions down from where I had been shooting from.
He quickly got up from his gun.
When I got back to my position he was arguing with the Range director that he had not done any thing unsafe, the gun was not loaded (But the bolt was closed I heard later) and he was just looking at his targets.
At our range when a cease fire is called you step away from your gun (Which he had) and you are not to mess with them in any way when some one is down range and the cease fire still in place.
He permanently lost his use of the range,,, not for the mistake,,, people will make mistakes and that’s something we have to put up with, but after arguing with the range director for over 10 minutes, the range director reached over and pulled his range card and told him to leave.
He looked around for some one to back him up and found out he had no friends that day. Called us all a couple of names that I won’t share here, since I want to continue to be a member of this great forum, and he left.
Range safety and rules cant protect you from stupid people, keep your eyes open.

Creature · July 4, 2009, 10:23 AM

Interesting. Everyone seems to be slamming the silly patron...but not the range itself. I am far more curious why it happened in the first place.

Did anyone investigate WHY the patron thought there was a cease fire? Since everyone is required to wear hearing protection, what visual indicators are in place for quick and easy discernment that the range was HOT (there have been many instances where I have been on a "hot range" where there was no actual gun fire happening for whatever reason...reloading, discussion, scope sighting, etc.). One example of a visual indicator would be a lit red light in each stall and another red light visible from all lanes behind the firing line.

Finally, WHAT if anything was done to preclude that mistake from happening again?

rbones · July 5, 2009, 01:47 PM

Here in central Florida, there's been a rash of suicides and murder-suicides at local gun ranges- they even rent the guns to these idiots. Makes one wonder about safety at a place where safety should be the #1 concern...

Jason607 · July 5, 2009, 08:13 PM

Every village has it's idiot. What is scary is that he probally drives a car too, and I hate to give you nightmares but he's probally breeding. At least when he's doing something stupid like that he's only putting himself at risk.

Sounds like a darwin award contender. I think part of the problem is there are too many safegaurds in place, idiots survive to reproduce and take out others in thier wake.

We all do stupid stuff at times, but some people have to keep raising the bar.

April 12, 2009, 06:05 PM	#28
MAGNUMKASH Junior Member Join Date: May 18, 2008 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 3	Idiot on The Range He would have been thrown off in about 10 seconds at the range where I RSO. I do not tolerate stupidity.

April 13, 2009, 03:56 PM	#30
bababooey32 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 161	Red's Hellbilly, Was that Red's North or South? I've been to the Suth location...kinda creeps me out for some reason. I'm still a newb, but I am vigilant about gun safety, perhaps to the point of paranoia. I even point loaded magazines away from others! The RO at Red's south didn't seem to pay much attention when I was there. As for rapid fire, 1 round per second appears to be fine at Reds...

April 14, 2009, 08:47 AM	#32
camogun Junior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Orlando,Florida Posts: 2	Mail Call I have the greatest respect for R Lee Ermy and I always watched Mail Call. But,I wish he would of put a disclaimer on his show that instructed people to have some respect for their shooting ranges by cleaning up after themselves.There are some fools that try to imitate R Lee by using watermelons as targets. That can be fun as long as people remove their targets when they are done shooting. I just can't stand having gnats and fruit flies hovering around me while I'm trying to site in my rifle. If these people would use alittle common sence and show some respect by helping to keep the range clean,then we can all enjoy our shooting time.Also if people would act responsible and mature when handling firearms then we won't have any incidents that will give the Antigunners any ammo to use against us.

April 24, 2009, 11:19 AM	#33
SigSauerIsBetter Member Join Date: February 23, 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 28	Word up! Amen brother.

May 4, 2009, 06:15 PM	#35
Hellbilly5000 Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2009 Location: RGV, Tx Posts: 787	bababooey it was reds south __________________ And death climbs the steps one by one, To give you the rose that's been burnt by her son, Point me to the sky above I can't get there on my own, Walk me through the graveyard Dig up her bones

April 12, 2009, 07:56 AM	#27
bigautomatic Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 610	Its really up to all of us to keep things safe. If a range has multiple shooting areas/ranges, a single RO can't be everywhere at once, and there are more folks that are new to our sport coming to the ranges than ever. I find that small public ranges that don't employ an RO can be the most dangerous, and thats where the more experienced folks need to step up and help educate the less experienced with safety issues. On the other hand, some folks are indeed simply dangerous to be around. Wether it be in a car, at the range, or in hazardous working conditions. They don't want your help, and things can escalate quickly with this type of person. In this case, you just have to use your own judgement. I have packed up and left public ranges more than once. Self preservation has to kick in at some point.

April 12, 2009, 08:43 PM	#29
FM12 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: Monroeville, Alabama Posts: 1,683	Stupid is as stupid does, Forrest Gump. My favorite "gumpism".

May 4, 2009, 06:11 PM	#34
fatboy02 Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Location: Olivet, MI Posts: 163	a couple of months ago I was at my CPL class, we got down to the range for that portion of the class there was some idiot spotting a target from three feet next to it for a guy trying to site in a scope on a .22 rifle! . Could not beleve it, They left after a short conversation with the instructor.

May 5, 2009, 11:24 AM	#36
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	idiots arm does not have to clean up it is done by others after the shooting stops. NRA match rules =low fire 30 minutes/timed fire=30 seconds/ rapid fire 10 seconds. better to be slow and accurate than fast and miss. many police shoot as fast as they can and dont hit. 50 shots fired two hits,woonsocket RI. can you keep all shots in 4" at 50 ft? no wonder there is a shortage of ammo.

May 5, 2009, 12:02 PM	#37
oldone Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2009 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 164	Is double tapping considered rapid fire? __________________ If you want to kick the Tiger in it's ass, you'd better have a plan dealing with it's teeth.

May 6, 2009, 12:37 AM	#38
Bongogator Junior Member Join Date: May 2, 2009 Posts: 3	There is a free range about 60 miles away. It's a pretty long drive to shoot. It's in the woods and most of the time it's great. There were these morons that couldn't shoot a broad side of a barn. So, they threw some can's about 10ft on the ground and started shooting. Sand and dirt flying everywhere. And all over everyone shooting. I'll give him credit, he did hit it twice out of 11. LOL! The last few times, it has been packed and you have to wait. That was just the last straw. Now, I shoot indoors where the lighting is bad and your gun get's too hot to fast. It's only a max of 50 yards. But, I will take what I can. Yes, double tapping is rapid fire. Last edited by Bongogator; May 6, 2009 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Answer a question

June 1, 2009, 01:39 PM	#39
JohnLaird Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 42	I must be living in a closet. The worst thing that I have encountered was a fat bubba with a tacticool AR-15 shooting at one of my targets.

June 2, 2009, 08:56 AM	#40
J.Smith Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2008 Location: Hampton Roads,VA / Wise Co. VA Posts: 157	Seems like you run into 3 types of people at ranges. Fake thugs/gangsters who shoot sideways and out of their lane and are removed quickly, tacticool folks who are more or less safe, but you still have to laugh at the 10 pounds of junk bolted and taped to that Ruger 10/22, and then the average shooter. Everyone has accidents, but in my experience the fake thug gangsters ans guys trying to show off for their girlfriends are the most dangerous. __________________ I have the worst luck with boating accidents and guns. My guns always seem to be on the boat when it sinks. _____________________________________________

June 2, 2009, 03:18 PM	#42
J.Smith Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2008 Location: Hampton Roads,VA / Wise Co. VA Posts: 157	Taken out of context. Accident meaning in life, it just seems like those types of people have accidents when handling firearms. __________________ I have the worst luck with boating accidents and guns. My guns always seem to be on the boat when it sinks. _____________________________________________

June 2, 2009, 09:21 PM	#43
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	Ill admit I made a newbie mistake once upon a time. My range is a free public one so you get all kinds of nut cases up there. I had just made my transition from rifle shooting to handgun shooting and I knew all the safety rules such as clear and hot, down or downrange, never handle a weapon while people are down range, loaded or not, however, I did not know your only allowed 6 rounds in a handgun at the range. So there I am, HK USP 9mm in hand, 15+1 one, making sure it fed ok . I was told nicely that I could get in trouble with that many rounds, and its never been a problem since.

June 10, 2009, 10:26 AM	#44
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	Although it's been a long time since I've been a newbie to shooting, I remember very well my first shooting experiences. The first thing I learned was "HOT" "COLD" meant. I can honestly say that I've never, EVER done one of the following while handling a gun or shooting at a range: 1. "sweep" an area with the muzzle of my gun 2. point a gun at an individual 3. walk out on a range when it was still HOT 4. have an accidental discharge while shooting or while cleaning my guns 5. shoot anything that wasn't down range 6. have a gun hit me in the face for not holding it properly 7. suffer any injury or cause injury to others as a result of shooting I started shooting .22 rifles when I was 7 years old and handguns when I was about 14. My parents didn't own guns so I had to get my training elsewhere. Gun Safety is a mindset made up of a very healthy dose of respect, ritual, setting and following personal safety rules and other people's rules, no matter how stupid you may think they are.

June 11, 2009, 08:02 AM	#45
jon_in_wv Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2004 Posts: 670	There are two ranges close to my house. One is a state owned range run buy a master shooter who enforces pretty strict rules. He allows me to shoot ass fast as I like on the pistol range but slowfire only on the rifle range with no high capacity mags. ( He is setting up another shooting area for rapid shooting rifles like my AK. ) The range is clean, safe, and I have had very few problems there. I avoid it right before deer season when all the yokels come out to sight in their deer guns but other than that it is a great place to shoot. Pistol range up to 50 yards and rifle range up to 1000. The other is also a state owned range but there is no range master, no one watches the range. Its covered with trash and spent brass. I've seen every safety violation there is at this place. People walk downrange on a hot range, they don't sweep the firing line with their muzzle they will just have their muzzle pointed at you and don't give it a second thought. One day I went to that range and there was a guy shooting at a target at the 100 yard berm. The 50 yard berm is right next to it and there were two guys standing down range about 10 feet from the target shooting. So the guy at the 100 was shooting right past their heads at his target. They told me to go ahead and start shooting, they didn't mind, "Just don't shoot us, ha ha". I told them the easiest way to assure that was if I didn't do anything that STUPID. I'd wait until they were done. They all got mad, put their guns away, and left. That was probably the smartest thing they did all day.

June 30, 2009, 07:04 PM	#46
Composer_1777 Junior member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 242	The range i go to is strict and helpful (outdoor) it was my buddies first time shooting and the Range master came and gave him a session on shooting just out of common courtesy. Very awesome range and they won't even let you sit rifles down without the chamber locked and on the rack. Guess i'm lucky... jesus.

July 4, 2009, 10:14 AM	#47
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Had the opposite of yours several weekends ago at our range. Range director called a cease fire and put up the sign and every one got up from there long guns and several people walked down range to work on there targets,,, I was one of them. I was placing a target on the back board and started hearing some yelling behind me. Looked behind, there was this gentleman on his bench, gun on his shoulder looking down the scope at the target. He was setting two positions down from where I had been shooting from. He quickly got up from his gun. When I got back to my position he was arguing with the Range director that he had not done any thing unsafe, the gun was not loaded (But the bolt was closed I heard later) and he was just looking at his targets. At our range when a cease fire is called you step away from your gun (Which he had) and you are not to mess with them in any way when some one is down range and the cease fire still in place. He permanently lost his use of the range,,, not for the mistake,,, people will make mistakes and that’s something we have to put up with, but after arguing with the range director for over 10 minutes, the range director reached over and pulled his range card and told him to leave. He looked around for some one to back him up and found out he had no friends that day. Called us all a couple of names that I won’t share here, since I want to continue to be a member of this great forum, and he left. Range safety and rules cant protect you from stupid people, keep your eyes open.

July 4, 2009, 10:23 AM	#48
Creature Junior member Join Date: April 8, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,769	Interesting. Everyone seems to be slamming the silly patron...but not the range itself. I am far more curious why it happened in the first place. Did anyone investigate WHY the patron thought there was a cease fire? Since everyone is required to wear hearing protection, what visual indicators are in place for quick and easy discernment that the range was HOT (there have been many instances where I have been on a "hot range" where there was no actual gun fire happening for whatever reason...reloading, discussion, scope sighting, etc.). One example of a visual indicator would be a lit red light in each stall and another red light visible from all lanes behind the firing line. Finally, WHAT if anything was done to preclude that mistake from happening again?

July 5, 2009, 01:47 PM	#49
rbones Junior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: orlando Posts: 5	Idiots are everywhere... Here in central Florida, there's been a rash of suicides and murder-suicides at local gun ranges- they even rent the guns to these idiots. Makes one wonder about safety at a place where safety should be the #1 concern...

July 5, 2009, 08:13 PM	#50
Jason607 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2006 Posts: 138	Every village has it's idiot. What is scary is that he probally drives a car too, and I hate to give you nightmares but he's probally breeding. At least when he's doing something stupid like that he's only putting himself at risk. Sounds like a darwin award contender. I think part of the problem is there are too many safegaurds in place, idiots survive to reproduce and take out others in thier wake. We all do stupid stuff at times, but some people have to keep raising the bar.