just got a thompsen renegade need help with what to shoot

Saguaro Firearms · August 2, 2010, 12:26 AM

OK Ive been reloading for 10 years, and have been casting for about one, but i just acquired a Thompson renegade in 54 caliber and i want to shoot it, and i want to cast for it as well, i looked at some molds and there were several sizes, im asuming a mini ball would be more accurate, and that gets patched right? is there any reason to shoot round ball over mini ball? so what mold size do i need? any info would help,

Rifleman1776 · August 2, 2010, 08:07 AM

That rifle will perform best with a patched round ball.
I know non-traditionalists will scream that you should use a mini/maxi or other bubble wrapped magic bullets.
No, the elongated bullets are not to be patched. Only patch round balls made from pure soft lead.
To find what works best for you, you should buy a supply of various projectiles, read instructions and test on the range.
The patched round ball will be more pleasant to shoot. A heavy bullet in .54 caliber can be a shoulder thumper.

wncchester · August 2, 2010, 09:20 AM

My old Renagade .54 shoots heavy maxiballs and Lee's REAL bullets quite well, not fussy at all. I find a charge of 110-120 gr. of Pyrodex (from a volume calibrated brass powder measure) works very well for accuracy and speed. Bore Butter has become my favorite bullet lube and we don't patch "bullets", we only patch balls.

The much heavier bullets are more effective on game than balls due to their greater mass.

For accuracy, it is critical that we don't damage the heel of the bullets as we start them.

Pahoo · August 2, 2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

That rifle will perform best with a patched round ball.

Mine as well and in fact, all my target shooting is done with PRB. The main reason they are more accurate, is that a PRB, is very forgiving. I have shot just about every minnie and Sabot combination. Cannot and won't keep up with variety of PowerBelt types. ...

I would recommend you get a loading manual, from TC. They would be more than happy to send you a manual at no cost.

Be Safe !!!

William T. Watts · August 2, 2010, 10:05 AM

Rifleman1776 hit it on the nose, your rifle has a 1 in 48" twist, I would start with a patched (230 grn) round ball. A 430 grn maxi ball will be more than a thumper especially with your brass butt plate. FWIW I've tried it both ways, the round ball shot smaller groups and far more pleasant to shoot, the round ball will have a flatter trajectory too which is a plus! William

dahermit · August 2, 2010, 10:29 AM

Mini balls do not get patched. They get lubed and pushed down the barrel. The butt plate is not brass as stated by another poster, it is steel.
I had an original .54 Renegade and it shot the TC maxi-ball very well. I replaced the original barrel with a custom one that had a twist for patched round balls (which was a different twist than the original, so I think that Renegades come with a twist for maxi-balls, not round balls).
Correct round ball size for .54 Renegade is .530, the Maxi-ball (if still available)mold and the current minis for the .54 will come in the correct size for your Renegade.

Saguaro Firearms · August 2, 2010, 12:13 PM

wow thanks for all the help, i got the rifle used but unfired, so i dont have any instructions, i ordered a mold for 230 grain round ball and a powder measure, and ball starter and some patches, does any one know if it uses a number 11 cap or a 209? or can you use either? i also got the original suggested load chart from Thompson for the renegade, but it didn't say anything about lube, just charge volumes.

William T. Watts · August 2, 2010, 12:24 PM

My mistake, my barrel is marked Thompson Center Arms, Rochester, New Hampshire, the rifle has no other markings other than caliber (54). Obviously not a Renegade but an older Thompson rifle with the brass butt plate. If Saguaro Firearms rifle has the curved early style butt plate & not the shot gun style it will have be a heavy kicker and better suited for a round ball. FWIW round balls are available in both .530" & .535" Approx 230 gr for the 54 Cal rifle. I changed the standard nipple (simple substitution) for a musket nipple and virtually elminated miss fires. William

Pahoo · August 2, 2010, 12:26 PM

Your Renegade takes a #11 primer.

Quote:

but it didn't say anything about lube, just charge volumes.

That's because it's part of the leaning curve. While you are at it, your patch also needs to be lubed. If you go into the TC website as well as other places, they sell a variety of lubes. Everyone has their favorite. I like to mix my own. The PRB, is a great way to start out learning and some folks never leave them. I am down to shooting PRB and Maxi's on all my sidelocks. The Maxi's need lubing. ....

Be Safe !!!

Pahoo · August 2, 2010, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Obviously not a Renegade but an older Thompson rifle with the brass butt plate.

The Renegade has a black steel buttplate and no nose cap. The TC Hawken model, has a brass buttplate and brass nose cap. Looks like you have a very early Hawken model as these were not marked. It's what I refer to as the "Pre-Stamped" models. These are more desireable than the marked ones. Three of my TC Hawkens, Senecas and Cherokee's are not stamped.

Be Safe !!!

William T. Watts · August 2, 2010, 01:08 PM

Pahoo thanks for the information, I've had this rifle for a long time and not hunted with it much because of the butt plate, while it is attractive it's not functional. William

Pahoo · August 2, 2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

I've had this rifle for a long time and not hunted with it much because of the butt plate, while it is attractive it's not functional.

Personally I haven't noticed that much and like everything else that comes your way, you do your best. I don't load a hot shot string, in my hunters so It's not a problem. My earliest, "PreStamped", from the factory, was early 80's. So yours might go back that far. I'd rather hunt with my traditionals than my in-lines but that's me. ....

Be Safe !!!

wncchester · August 2, 2010, 05:00 PM

"the butt plate, while it is attractive it's not functional. William "

It's really not that hard a kicker.

The trigger, lock and barrel of the original Renagades and Hawkins rifles were the same.

Saguaro Firearms · August 15, 2010, 10:40 PM

well i ordered a mold and cast some 530 round ball, and got some .10 and some .15 patches, ill admit, the thing is a blast to shoot, not bad in the accuracy department either, anything within the 100-125 yard mark deffinatly dead, would like to try some mini ball, but so far the round are just fine, very fun to shoot, and even with 120 grains of ffg, its a softy to shoot, thanks for all the help and for your knowledge.

August 2, 2010, 10:05 AM	#5
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	Round ball Rifleman1776 hit it on the nose, your rifle has a 1 in 48" twist, I would start with a patched (230 grn) round ball. A 430 grn maxi ball will be more than a thumper especially with your brass butt plate. FWIW I've tried it both ways, the round ball shot smaller groups and far more pleasant to shoot, the round ball will have a flatter trajectory too which is a plus! William

August 2, 2010, 12:24 PM	#8
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	My mistake, my barrel is marked Thompson Center Arms, Rochester, New Hampshire, the rifle has no other markings other than caliber (54). Obviously not a Renegade but an older Thompson rifle with the brass butt plate. If Saguaro Firearms rifle has the curved early style butt plate & not the shot gun style it will have be a heavy kicker and better suited for a round ball. FWIW round balls are available in both .530" & .535" Approx 230 gr for the 54 Cal rifle. I changed the standard nipple (simple substitution) for a musket nipple and virtually elminated miss fires. William Last edited by William T. Watts; August 2, 2010 at 12:30 PM.

August 2, 2010, 12:26 AM	#1
Saguaro Firearms Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: southern arizona Posts: 66	just got a thompsen renegade need help with what to shoot OK Ive been reloading for 10 years, and have been casting for about one, but i just acquired a Thompson renegade in 54 caliber and i want to shoot it, and i want to cast for it as well, i looked at some molds and there were several sizes, im asuming a mini ball would be more accurate, and that gets patched right? is there any reason to shoot round ball over mini ball? so what mold size do i need? any info would help,

August 2, 2010, 08:07 AM	#2
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	That rifle will perform best with a patched round ball. I know non-traditionalists will scream that you should use a mini/maxi or other bubble wrapped magic bullets. No, the elongated bullets are not to be patched. Only patch round balls made from pure soft lead. To find what works best for you, you should buy a supply of various projectiles, read instructions and test on the range. The patched round ball will be more pleasant to shoot. A heavy bullet in .54 caliber can be a shoulder thumper.

August 2, 2010, 09:20 AM	#3
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	My old Renagade .54 shoots heavy maxiballs and Lee's REAL bullets quite well, not fussy at all. I find a charge of 110-120 gr. of Pyrodex (from a volume calibrated brass powder measure) works very well for accuracy and speed. Bore Butter has become my favorite bullet lube and we don't patch "bullets", we only patch balls. The much heavier bullets are more effective on game than balls due to their greater mass. For accuracy, it is critical that we don't damage the heel of the bullets as we start them.

August 2, 2010, 10:29 AM	#6
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Mini balls do not get patched. They get lubed and pushed down the barrel. The butt plate is not brass as stated by another poster, it is steel. I had an original .54 Renegade and it shot the TC maxi-ball very well. I replaced the original barrel with a custom one that had a twist for patched round balls (which was a different twist than the original, so I think that Renegades come with a twist for maxi-balls, not round balls). Correct round ball size for .54 Renegade is .530, the Maxi-ball (if still available)mold and the current minis for the .54 will come in the correct size for your Renegade.

August 2, 2010, 12:13 PM	#7
Saguaro Firearms Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: southern arizona Posts: 66	wow thanks for all the help, i got the rifle used but unfired, so i dont have any instructions, i ordered a mold for 230 grain round ball and a powder measure, and ball starter and some patches, does any one know if it uses a number 11 cap or a 209? or can you use either? i also got the original suggested load chart from Thompson for the renegade, but it didn't say anything about lube, just charge volumes.

August 2, 2010, 01:08 PM	#11
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	Pahoo thanks for the information, I've had this rifle for a long time and not hunted with it much because of the butt plate, while it is attractive it's not functional. William

August 2, 2010, 05:00 PM	#13
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"the butt plate, while it is attractive it's not functional. William " It's really not that hard a kicker. The trigger, lock and barrel of the original Renagades and Hawkins rifles were the same.

August 15, 2010, 10:40 PM	#14
Saguaro Firearms Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: southern arizona Posts: 66	well i ordered a mold and cast some 530 round ball, and got some .10 and some .15 patches, ill admit, the thing is a blast to shoot, not bad in the accuracy department either, anything within the 100-125 yard mark deffinatly dead, would like to try some mini ball, but so far the round are just fine, very fun to shoot, and even with 120 grains of ffg, its a softy to shoot, thanks for all the help and for your knowledge.