In The Market For A 375 H&H

[1972RedNeck]

I've been kicking around the idea of a 375 H&H for awhile, mostly "just because". Currently the only big game I shoot is two or three elk every year and my M70 300 Win Mag does a great job of it. The first rifle I looked at was a M70 Safari - Nice rifle, nothing fancy, just about what I would like. I have looked around at others, but the one that stood out the most was the CZ 550 American Safari. It seems to have a higher quality "feel" about it than the Winchester (not that the Win is bad) and is similarly priced.

Doing a little looking online, the magazine capacity caught my eye. The Win is the standard old 3+1 while the CZ is listed as 5. Is that 5 as in 4+1 or as in 5 in the mag an 1 in the chamber? Mag capacity isn't really a factor but it did pique my interest.

Other than that, I have pretty much narrowed it down to the M70 and the CZ 550. What are your thoughts on the two?

[T. O'Heir]

"...mostly "just because"..." "I want one. " is a reason. It's also the best reason to buy anything.
Ever shoot a .375? It's sort of similar to a .300 Mag, but not quite. A 180 grain bullet at 2960 FPS out of an 8.5 lb. rifle produces 25.9 ft-lbs of recoil energy. A .375's 235 grain bullet at 2700) FPS out of a 9.0 lb. rifle produces 29.5 ft-lbs. A 300 grain bullet runs 37.3 ft-lbs. Ammo runs up from ~ $60 per 20.
The Win M70 Safari Express weighs 9.0 pounds. The CZ 9.38 lbs. (Don't worry about the mag capacity(5 in the CZ). You won't be getting into a fire fight.) The M70's MSRP is roughly $300 more than the CZ. Either of 'em will likely be a special order thing anyway.

[FITASC]

What? No double gun to be included in the mix?????

[1972RedNeck]

Originally Posted by FITASC

What? No double gun to be included in the mix?????

Nope, nothing fancy for me. Just a plain old checkered stock bolt action.

[1972RedNeck]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

Ever shoot a .375? It's sort of similar to a .300 Mag, but not quite. A 180 grain bullet at 2960 FPS out of an 8.5 lb. rifle produces 25.9 ft-lbs of recoil energy. A .375's 235 grain bullet at 2700) FPS out of a 9.0 lb. rifle produces 29.5 ft-lbs. A 300 grain bullet runs 37.3 ft-lbs. Ammo runs up from ~ $60 per 20.
The Win M70 Safari Express weighs 9.0 pounds. The CZ 9.38 lbs. (Don't worry about the mag capacity(5 in the CZ). You won't be getting into a fire fight.) The M70's MSRP is roughly $300 more than the CZ. Either of 'em will likely be a special order thing anyway.

I have not shot a .375. Closet thing to it (I would imagine) was a 338 LM and a 416 Rigby. Both of which were quite tolerable.

Ammo cost isn't too worrisome as I would just buy a set of dies to add to my collection and reload.

As stated, mag capacity is of little importance to me, it just struck me as unusual.

I found a 98% M70 for sale for $975 that has my interest piqued and a local gun shop has a NIB CZ 550 that they are asking $1,199 for (I'm thinking I could get them into the $1K range with a little horse trading).

Similar rifles, similar prices - I'm having a hard time deciding. Which would you go with and why?

[jmr40]

If I were buying a 375 one of these would be my choice. They are chambered in 375 Ruger instead of 375 H&H and I know they don't have the nostalgia. But I think there are enough advantages to pick the Ruger over the H&H.

It is essentially like comparing a 300 WM to a 300 H&H. The 375 Ruger fits in a standard 30-06 action and beats 375 H&H performance by a narrow margin. A 375 H&H requires either a longer magnum length action or needs to have a long action modified to work. That is what Winchester does. Don't know about CZ.


http://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeAfr...ets/37186.html
http://ruger.com/products/guideGun/s...ets/47125.html

If it is 375 H&H or nothing, I like the Winchester.

[Dufus]

My vote goes to the Win M70 in 375 H&H, mostly because I have one.

It is a very accurate rifle. Easy to shoot. Looks purty. And, I don't mind that it only holds 4 cartridges. It isn't an AR so why would it need more?

I started to add the Ruger to my arsenal, but then I gotta stop somewhere.

The biggest advantage, at least to me, is that the Ruger case has no belt. For many, that is important.

I am not fond of belted cartridges, but I have a few.

A lot of times I shoot the Barnes original 255 gr bullet that was intended for the 38-55 and the 375 Win.

It works and does not cost much in comparison to some others. I also shoot some cast bullets in that caliber.

[1972RedNeck]

Originally Posted by jmr40

If I were buying a 375 one of these would be my choice. They are chambered in 375 Ruger instead of 375 H&H and I know they don't have the nostalgia. But I think there are enough advantages to pick the Ruger over the H&H.

It is essentially like comparing a 300 WM to a 300 H&H. The 375 Ruger fits in a standard 30-06 action and beats 375 H&H performance by a narrow margin. A 375 H&H requires either a longer magnum length action or needs to have a long action modified to work. That is what Winchester does. Don't know about CZ.


http://ruger.com/products/HawkeyeAfr...ets/37186.html
http://ruger.com/products/guideGun/s...ets/47125.html

If it is 375 H&H or nothing, I like the Winchester.

It's pretty much 375 H&H or nothing. If I were looking for a 375 Ruger, it would be a Mosberg - good quality, US made, and VERY affordable.

[1972RedNeck]

Originally Posted by Dufus

My vote goes to the Win M70 in 375 H&H, mostly because I have one.

It is a very accurate rifle. Easy to shoot. Looks purty. And, I don't mind that it only holds 4 cartridges. It isn't an AR so why would it need more?

I started to add the Ruger to my arsenal, but then I gotta stop somewhere.

The biggest advantage, at least to me, is that the Ruger case has no belt. For many, that is important.

I am not fond of belted cartridges, but I have a few.

A lot of times I shoot the Barnes original 255 gr bullet that was intended for the 38-55 and the 375 Win.

It works and does not cost much in comparison to some others. I also shoot some cast bullets in that caliber.

The M70 is a strong attraction for me, I have always been a Winchester fan, the only reason I'm not 100% dead set on Winchester is they just don't seem to be the Winchester that they were before being acquired.

I would like some input from anyone that has been around a CZ 550.

[Dufus]

the only reason I'm not 100% dead set on Winchester is they just don't seem to be the Winchester that they were before being acquired.

You can find some good used ones at lots of places that were made before the buyout.

[reynolds357]

I had a wby Mark V in 375 h&h. It was a bit anemic so I reamed it to 375 Ackley magnum.

[bobn]

35 years ago I had a 375 ouch and ouch. it was a interarms all American mauser. not too light and just right shape on the stock. you have to plant it tightly into your shoulder. definitely get a decent trigger on it. helps to prevent a flinch.
...also my gun a had a steel cross bolt in the stock just like magnum rifles should have. accuracy was 1 1/4 groups at hundred. have fun, bob

[Scoits]

Have a 1949 model 70 in 375 h&h and it has been used a bit. Bought a 416 rem and reload 325 barnes for it. Does more then the 375 and if necessary can use heavier bullets.
Like the 375 tho.

[stagpanther]

I have a mossberg patriot in 375 ruger--great weapon IMO. I also have a 300 win mag--no relation between the two in terms of recoil IMO--if you fire full-power 375 loads you're gonna take a big shove--but it's manageable, plus you can load the cartridge up and down in power. If you reload you'll immediately appreciate the common-sense design.

[agtman]

In The Market For A 375 H&H
I've been kicking around the idea of a 375 H&H for awhile, mostly "just because". Currently the only big game I shoot is two or three elk every year and my M70 300 Win Mag does a great job of it. The first rifle I looked at was a M70 Safari - Nice rifle, nothing fancy, just about what I would like. I have looked around at others, but the one that stood out the most was the CZ 550 American Safari. It seems to have a higher quality "feel" about it than the Winchester (not that the Win is bad) and is similarly priced.

Doing a little looking online, the magazine capacity caught my eye. The Win is the standard old 3+1 while the CZ is listed as 5. Is that 5 as in 4+1 or as in 5 in the mag an 1 in the chamber? Mag capacity isn't really a factor but it did pique my interest.
Other than that, I have pretty much narrowed it down to the M70 and the CZ 550. What are your thoughts on the two?

First, you might look around a bit at gun shows in your area, or even on-line, for a used but still serviceable BRNO 602 in .375H&H, which is really the predecessor magnum action for the CZ line of 550 magnums. I can highly recommend it. Capacity-wise, 602s in .375 hold 5 down + 1 in the chamber.

You might find a 602 being sold for a reasonable price either because the owner has tired of shooting it off the bench only, or he has at long last disabused himself of the notion that he's ever going to have enough money saved to satisfy his inner Ernest-Hemingway fantasy and hunt dangerous game in Africa multiple times.

The .375H&H 602s are, as DGRs go, reliable in cycling/feeding and acceptably accurate out of the box, whereas the reputation of the 550s out of the box is that many are twitchy and get the jam-skis unless tweaked and polished by a DGR 'smith who knows what he's doing. I have a 602 in .375 and had it customized to my preferences many years ago by a highly talented DGR 'smith. It's a beauty and a shooter.

Second, be advised that unless the owner switched to an aftermarket or custom stock, the 602s came factory-dressed in an old-school "hump-back" walnut stock which, while stylish from a European perspective, only serves to accentuate recoil and cheek-smack, especially when zero-ing or testing handloads off a bench. This is where BRNOs unfortunately developed a reputation for being painful to shoot after more than a few shots, which some wrongfully attributed to the .375 cartridge (602s were also chambered in .458WinMag) when it was actually the fault of the stock's design. Happily outfits like AHR, which specializes in building and customizing DGRs, can re-stock a 602 (or 550 for that matter) in wood or synthetic.

[disseminator]

By all accounts the new Model 70's are as good or better than the old ones so if you are concerned that the new Model 70 isn't the same as the original because it's made over seas now, that shouldn't bother as the CZ is also made over seas so....

I would go with the Winchester all day long. There are plenty of used Winchesters out there too if you really want a USA made model.

I have two New Haven made Model 70's and I really like them both a lot.

Have fun, the 375 H&H is a hoot. I reload for mine with a regular set of Redding dies and they work great.

[SA1911]

Hi 1972RedNeck,

T O'Heir is right on target: "just because" is a darn good reason.

My only caveat is to fire a .375 H&H Mag before you buy. I've fired some pretty darn big rifle cartridges out of sporter rifles. Some gave me a severe cases of the hurts donits.

I personally know of a dude who read hunting magazines from which he got his hunting rifle knowledge. He bought a beautiful .375 H&H Mag on which he spent a small fortune. Long story short, he sold it. There's a reason that the '06 is pretty darn popular in Alaska.

I know my recoil threshold. It's the 7MM Rem Mag, which will kill every big game animal in North America just as dead as a .300 RUM. After all, there's only one degree of dead and that's dead. We can't kill any big game deader than dead. And the '06 has been killing big game dead since it was introduced.

My go-to rifle for all big game hunting is chambered for the .270 Win. Bull moose, bull elk, it won't matter: I'll kill it dead with a .270 Win.

My point, which you assuredly already know, is that there is no free lunch with a .375 H&H Mag. It will cause you to suffer an acute case of hurts donits.

I wish you the absolute best of luck.

[eastbank]

I have used a CZ-550 in .375 H&H mag. on five african hunts and shot most of the 61 animals there with it and they all died with one shot, except two that required a finishing shot to shorten the tracking. i have never felt the recoil when shooting large animals close up. I liked that rifle so much that I bought a CZ-550 American in 6.5x55. eastbank.

[Art Eatman]

Frank Murphy of [email protected] has one in stock at his shop in south Georgia.

[muzzleblast...]

I have multiple Winchester M-70s and one CZ 550 in .416 Rigby. It would be a toss up between the CZ and a Safari grade M-70. I'd likely go with whichever felt best when shouldered.

[jfruser]

I own a CZ550 AmSaf in .375H&H. It is hands-down, my favorite commercial/sporting rifle.

Mine is stupid accurate with even cheap (for .375H&H) Rem Express 270gr soft point ammo.

[1972RedNeck]

Originally Posted by jfruser

I own a CZ550 AmSaf in .375H&H. It is hands-down, my favorite commercial/sporting rifle.

Mine is stupid accurate with even cheap (for .375H&H) Rem Express 270gr soft point ammo.

That's what I like to hear!

Originally Posted by eastbank

I have used a CZ-550 in .375 H&H mag. on five african hunts and shot most of the 61 animals there with it and they all died with one shot, except two that required a finishing shot to shorten the tracking. i have never felt the recoil when shooting large animals close up. I liked that rifle so much that I bought a CZ-550 American in 6.5x55. eastbank.

What about these 550's not feeding too smooth? Have either of you noticed a problem?

[eastbank]

the 550 in 375 H&H and 550 in 6.5x55 are not tikka T3 smooth out of the box, but with use or a little polishing they smooth up nicely. I do know when I worked the bolt on the 375 in a hurry on my hunting trips in Africa, loaded round in and a empty case out. eastbank.

[geologist]

I have a BRNO 602, the predecessor of the CZ550. It is a fine rifle and things like the floorplate of the magazine being MACHINED not cast speak to its quality.

I even like the pull to fire safety as I think of it as an external hammer. PLus my general hunting rifle is a BRNO 600 with the same safety so I am accustomed to it. The only bad thing about these safeties is that they are LOUD.

I cut the barrel down from 25" to 20" on the 602 to make it handle better in the bush and for transporting in aircraft and in sleds/ATVs. It didn't lose more than 100 ft/sec with 300 grain factory ammo.

I did have to go with a lower front sight on the re-installed sight base since the barrel taper brought it up after the barrel shortening. It hits to POA with factory ammo at 100 yards using the 100m leaf.

They have superior express sights and for shooting fast I prefer them.

[agtman]

Beautiful BRNO 602 right there, Geologist!

I'll bet that 20" barrel is real handy to maneuver in the bush too. The barrel on mine was trimmed to 23" when it was customized way back. But if I lived in Alaska, I'd probably have it cut back to like, 21" or so.

The best thing about the .375 BRNOs is they seemed to want to shoot all weight of .375 bullets well - some outstandingly well. The original loadings for the .375 cartridge spanned 235gn, 270gn, and 300gn slugs, which is how it acquired it's reputation for versatility of use on widely different species of African game, but thanks to modern projectile technology the .375 owner today has a lot more choices in bullet-weight and styles.

I've got pet loads dialed in from reduced 200gn & 210gn "deer" loads all the way to heavier stoppers using Hornandy 300gn RNs. These rifles shoot the cast boolits very well too.

EDIT: Not the best pic, but I've added a pic of mine as an attachment.