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Old June 14, 2011, 05:58 PM   #51
Flatfoot 1
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I can't believe what I'm reading....2 guns....3 guns & a knife? If your not an LEO your first reaction should be to retreat not get engaged in a gun fight! If you can't hit your target with 1 gun, 2 or 3 isn't gonna help ya! As an LEO if I stopped a civilian with 2 or 3 concealed weapons I would question the mental stability of the individual! I'm sensing alot of "BUFF" thinking going on here!
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Old June 14, 2011, 06:06 PM   #52
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I can't believe what I'm reading here....2 guns...3 guns & a knife and a flashlite, and extra mags and speed loaders! If your not an LEO your first action is to retreat, not engage in a gun fight! And if you can't hit your target with 1 gun..2 or 3 will not help you! As an LEO I would have to question the mental stability of any civilian who is carrying 2 or 3 concealed weapons! I'm sensing alot of "BUFF" thinking here. Don't fall in the water!
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Old June 14, 2011, 07:59 PM   #53
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I can't believe what I'm reading here....2 guns...3 guns & a knife and a flashlite, and extra mags and speed loaders! If your not an LEO your first action is to retreat, not engage in a gun fight! And if you can't hit your target with 1 gun..2 or 3 will not help you! As an LEO I would have to question the mental stability of any civilian who is carrying 2 or 3 concealed weapons! I'm sensing alot of "BUFF" thinking here. Don't fall in the water!
I can't believe what I read here. You're a LEO? If you can make a blanket statement like this, you're showing an awful lot of immaturity. Did you just start the academy?
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Old June 14, 2011, 08:23 PM   #54
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Carrying two is fine, always carry a back up. 3 is up to you, like an 380 auto throw away is fine or a two shot gun. If you are carrying 3 guns that can hold 33 round magazines then you are crazy.
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Old June 15, 2011, 12:32 AM   #55
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I cant believe this thread got so out of hand, I started it for general conversating, and then people start calling people names and want to question their mental stability for carrying more then one gun.
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Old June 15, 2011, 03:37 PM   #56
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I used to carry two every now and then, but eventually I concluded that if I did need to use a gun, the odds were that I'd only need one, whereas the odds were 100% that any weapons I had on me would be taken from me; and I would not see them for quite some time.

So with that in mind, I decided that for me having an extra carry gun at home was a better choice, since I only HAVE two.
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Old June 15, 2011, 07:47 PM   #57
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Now this may seem like a real dumb question, but if you carried two guns, and only used one of them in a self defense shooting, why would the cops need to confiscate and hold both? They would quickly be able to get forensic evidence that only the one was used, thus making the one not used not a part of the incident. They could not connect it to the shooting in any way. It would be like have asecond car that you owned parked near the scene of accident you caused, and the police wanting to take the undriven car along with the one you were driving. It would be an action not derived from logic, and very hard to justify in a court.
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Old June 16, 2011, 02:45 PM   #58
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One gun...OK....two guns..three guns and extra mags/speed loaders....for a civilian? You should remember you are suppose to retreat as a civilian when and if possible, and only use DPF as a last result! You would have (in my opinion) a hard sell to a jury that you were not "Looking for an altercation" when in possession of all that fire power. As an LEO , I would question the mental stability of any civilian that I stopped carrying 2 or 3 guns and extra ammo! You would most certainly be detained! I feel to many civilians with CCW permits or licenses have them for the wrong reason. I've read on this forum of guys with handcuffs, knives, clubs etc etc. You wanna be a cop? Take the test! Till then YOUR A CIVILIAN!!!
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Old June 16, 2011, 03:59 PM   #59
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Hey, Flatfoot. Ever heard of a citizen's arrest? A civilian who comes under attack might just feel the need to ARREST an attacker. Changes the whole darn scenario here in Ohio (I never did buy into that duty to retreat crap). A citizen has the same arrest authority on a felony in progress as a cop. Prosecutors don't like to talk about that, or admit it, but it's on the books. And it is the same in most states. Cops have just a few more "powers" and subsequent DUTIES, such as arrests in misdemeanors, etc, but both cops and civilians arrest on felonies in progress under the same section of the state law.
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Old June 16, 2011, 08:53 PM   #60
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Fellow Ohioan here, and I was actually not aware of that statute. Not to say its not there, looking now actually. Have heard of the whole "citizens arrest" thing in passing, conjecture, and general speculation, however, have never heard on anyone actually performing one outside of bad TV.

But back to topic, a bug is one thing but 3 plus a blade might be pushing the envelope of "armed to the teeth." Unless you literally live in the middle of gangland, could be considered overkill. I feel it unneccessary, but imho, if you have a ccw and want to lug that much weight around, I want you next to me if the gas station I am at gets robbed by a small army.
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Old June 16, 2011, 11:13 PM   #61
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Flatfoot you sound like a stereo typical policeman who doesn't know and understand the laws that you are sworn to protect. I will laugh when I read about your court case in the news when you detain someone unlawfully for the sole reason of carrying a back up firearm. There has been court cases in the past and still on going against police officers thinking they are special, and abusing citizens who have just as much as a right to be armed. If you would detain someone solely for concealing two firearms then you truly are a disgrace to that badge on your chest. You are narrow minded.

If your life and body are in danger of sever bodily harm, were allowed to use deadly force. Yes retreating IF possible is the best option, but not everyone... in every scenario can retreat. I for instance have a metal plate and 8 screws holding my ankle together, so running for a retreat.... not really much of an option.

Like I said numerous times... I don't carry a back up gun... but I know people who do.. I know firearms instructors who encourage it... and I am around firearms 24/7 on my own time and on company time. I put more rounds down range in a week than most people probably do in a month. Ayoob condones carrying a backup guns... but I guess since your a police officer your outlook is much more valid than his right?

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Old June 17, 2011, 01:33 PM   #62
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Correct me here if I'm wrong, but all the cops that qualify under the federal CCW law after retirement are legal to carry, but any arrest they would possibly make related to using their gun would be as a private citizen (citizen's arrest, just the same as any other citizen). They are authorized to carry a gun, but no longer sworn and empowered to make arrests as a police officer. Is that correct?
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Old June 17, 2011, 01:58 PM   #63
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if I am hearing you right zztop(sharpdressed); sorry,couldn't resist-I love that tune

yes, you are correct. the retired LEO would not have any authoritative power to make an arrest more than any other citizen. He or she would have earned the right to carry anywhere in the USA as well as all of it's land & waters though(US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, Guam, etc,etc) as long as he/she had retired in good standing with 15+ yrs of service (I have read the one exception is a retirement in good standing due to anything mental).

long story short, I believe, a retired officer has no more authority than any average joe but he/she can CCW without a permit in our country + lands and waters(1 example: even in Illinois where it is against state law). Retired officers would have to take a yearly qualification course, where active LEOs would not have to.

ps- anyone please correct me if I have learned or read this wrong overtime.

all the best
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Old June 17, 2011, 02:04 PM   #64
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sharpdressed - I just reread your post, and it seems you already knew. I guess my post was extra babble. my bad for reading it so quick. LEOSA would definately only give the officer a right to CCW via Federal law. Even active LEOs off duty would have certain setbacks to drawing their CCW in certain fashions plus depending on the situation or their job.

my question to flatfoot would be: "Where do you draw the line?" You came across a little ignorant by stating that if someone had a legal CCW and BUG plus a folding knife on their belt that you would detain them definately and question their instability. I know you didn't state it in the words I paraphrased exactly, but you named a lot of legal, law-abiding American citizens in the post you did submit. Can you re-phrase and/or explain further your feelings because it seemed out of line?

all the best
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Old June 17, 2011, 03:17 PM   #65
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come now, we all know that mechanical devices that are subject to high temps and pressures, as well as being jostled around for weeks or years on end never never never fail

as a guy that had a friend standing next to him get a squib load stuck in his barrel at the range, the idea of a backup seems prudent

as an aside, why do some of you so vehemently oppose others carrying a backup? It's NONE of your concern or business. Or do you also ridicule people for having more than one flashlight in their house?

One might have to question the mental state of someone who gets so worked up over what a total stranger carries.
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Old June 17, 2011, 03:23 PM   #66
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As an LEO , I would question the mental stability of any civilian that I stopped carrying 2 or 3 guns and extra ammo! You would most certainly be detained! I feel to many civilians with CCW permits or licenses have them for the wrong reason. I've read on this forum of guys with handcuffs, knives, clubs etc etc. You wanna be a cop? Take the test! Till then YOUR A CIVILIAN!!!
If you work for my city, I invite you to ask me if I am presently carrying and what. When I tell you about both guns and you unlawfully detain me, then the members here can read about the lawsuit firsthand. I suspect that if you are new, you won't be a cop long, and if a veteran, you'll be heading for early retirement with that attitude. As it is now, I am beginning to question YOUR mental stability.
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Old June 17, 2011, 04:35 PM   #67
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Stevie-Ray, that's assuming he is actually a LEO. He hasn't actually said he is, in so many words; at least, the way he has put it,
Quote:
As an LEO , I would question the mental stability of any civilian that I stopped carrying 2 or 3 guns and extra ammo!
, it could be taken as a hypothetical.

I'm hoping he isn't one...
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Old June 17, 2011, 05:39 PM   #68
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For the record...To the gentleman who "Never bought into that retreat crap" whether you like it or you don't that is how it is in NY. And To those who are talking about lawsuits for being detained..let me clarify I meant that in the event you draw (flash) or use your weapon whether you felt it necessary or not...you will be detained. And if this cannot be remedied on the street (NO PAPER BEING FILED) the weapons will be removed from you until such time as the investigator in charge determines whether your actions were correct or incorrect. You will not be able to produce your license and just go on your merry way! Not gonna happen! As far as citizen arrest....in NY there are so few exceptions to the rule that you cannot shoot a fleeing felon (as a PO) I don't know of any situations where a civilian can. You might want to hold him at gunpoint but if walks (runs) and you fire...your screwed! Look at how many cops who have used their weapons end up on charges!!! I am recently retired and I'm not trying to burst your bubble but carrying that much fire power as a civilian is an invitation to a personal disaster ! I do carry everywhere everyday, a Kahr PM9 w/ 6 round mag! Thats it! I don't want to squeeze it! Now you can carry what you want, as many as you want buy keep in mind...You miss and hit an innocent bystander or you detain at gun point an innocent person YOU ARE SCREWED! LOTS & LOTS & LOTS of LIBERALS WHO WILL MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF YOU!!!
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Old June 17, 2011, 06:39 PM   #69
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Flatfoot, thanks for your response

Are you a retired law enforcement officer?
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Old June 17, 2011, 06:50 PM   #70
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the reason I ask is because on the other thread ("recently got my CCW this week" thread) you retired 10 yrs ago, not recently as stated in this thread
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Old June 17, 2011, 08:36 PM   #71
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Well, I guess if Flatfoot is a retired LEO, he won't be arresting or detaining anyone again for anything, since his powers of arrest are no more than the rest of us. He might carry a gun now, pursuant to law, etc, but has no additional arrest authority. As far as his opinion goes, I'm sure it is just as valid and important as mine, and everyone elses. PS: I hope nothing bad ever happens, but I wonder just how much an ex-cop is going to retreat if it's mano y mano ...........
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Old June 17, 2011, 10:52 PM   #72
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Had to update: I carry my Glock 23, 1 extra magazine for it, Kel Tec P-11 and a gerber pocket knife. I traded my Sigma for a glock, much better trigger on the glock.

Call me crazy if you want but I like living and I like my friends and family living as well. I will do whatever I feel is necessary to keep it that way, regardless of what you think I should do.
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Old June 18, 2011, 06:25 AM   #73
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I posted this elsewhere, but, in the interest of completeness, I'll post it here also. And, please excuse this wall-o-text.

I carry an M&P 40 in a concealed quickdraw at FBI cant and four extra mags (two on each side so I can reload even with one arm) giving a total of 76 rounds, plus a .410 revolver and two full reloads for it totaling 15 shells. I also carry a Xipos detachable pistol strobe light, two knives (one folding tactical and one fixed blade CQK), and a spring baton. All that just on my person. Never leave home without it, wear it at home even, well, anytime I'm wearing pants.

In the winter, when I can wear a heavy jacket, add a Carbon-15 5.56 pistol with Eotech 511 and foregrip on a short single point sling and four extra 30 round mags.

I have the license and see no reason not to use it to the fullest extent possible without scaring everyone I pass on the street.


Now, for those of you who call this excessive, liken it to carrying an extra pair of shoes, or a cane in case you break your leg, well ... In my car ...

I also keep two extra sets of clothes, a heavy coat, a pair of boots, a pair of gloves, a full med kit with air splints (which can be aired up with my portable air compressor), you know, just in case I fall down a break my leg or something, a snakebite kit (which I've used twice in five years), an extra car battery, two spare tires (thank god, I've needed them due to the amount of time I spend on dirt roads), flares, CB, cellphone, more flares, sleeping bag, extra oil, fan belts, trans and brake fluid, coolant hoses, wiring kit, a full tool kit, spotlight, 2 flashlights, lantern, extra batteries for all, extra ammo and batteries for optics, five gallons of water, a dozen MREs, ten gallons of gasoline ... this list could keep going and going and going and going ...

I live 40 miles from the nearest town, I spend most of my time on the road, in state, but still away from home and towns. If something happens, I am completely on my own for at least half an hour. I've been caught in blizzards, snakebitten, nearly killed by tornadoes, and once accosted by three transients, one of whom tried to get around behind me after I pulled my pistol. Luckily, I had a BUG and was able to draw it and shift my field of vision to keep all in sight and under threat. Yes, technically I was dual-wielding, and it saved my life, though I never had to fire a shot.

So, carry whatever you like. Also, learn to dual-wield. Is it practical? No. But, that doesn't mean it can't save your life. It's a skill for your toolbox, period.

Another also, dual-wielding accurately inside point-shooting range (7 meters) is easy, even against more than one target, as long as they're all within your field of vision.

Mock me if you like, I don't care. I was a boyscout, I'm always prepared.

{/wall-o-text}
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Old June 20, 2011, 11:32 AM   #74
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Tachi

WOW....why the 410 revolver as a backup...those things are bigger than your main carry pistol

I could care less about criticizing the rest haha

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Old June 20, 2011, 06:20 PM   #75
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Loaded with #4 Buck for snakes and people. .410 pistol is more handy to carry around than a shovel. At home, where I have an butt load of rattlesnakes (If you love your dogs, keep their snake boosters current folks), I just use a prod to hold them; then, I skin them alive after driving their fangs into a 2x4. If done right, and you've had enough practice, you have time to skin them before they work their fangs loose (from their mouths not the board).

And yes, it is one of the much maligned Judges.

I have had zero issues with it. Maybe I'm just lucky.
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