Bad news for stag arms

[1stmar]

Looks like some poor recording tracking and other documentation problems have come back to haunt stag.

This says they will be sold, and the owner will lose his ffl and ability to remain in the firearms business. Hopefully they will remain in ct and no one will lose their jobs. Neither is likely.


http://www.courant.com/breaking-news...222-story.html

[t4terrific]

Between this and the WEC charges against Smith & Wesson, The Executive Branch of our government is doing it's best to get the guns, one way or another.

Eventually they'll get a congress that will ban these guns straight up, but for now they have to focus on businesses within the industry.

[Nathan]

Wow! Good thing we have the ATF to keep us safe from failures to update records. My god, what could have happened? Oh my goodness, they might have shifted them to the next order and updated the records at that time!

THIS is why the ATF must go. I don't pay taxes to pay the presidents private army to infringe upon my rights.

[KyJim]

I'm sorry but I disagree with those attacking the ATF on this one. It's all on Stag and Malkowsk. They couldn't account for 200 firearms including 62 fully automatic rifles and receivers. They had one free pass in 2007 but didn't learn their lesson. At best, they had a cavalier attitude toward the law and their responsibilities. When a company does that, it adds fuel to the anti-gun crowd.

[Nathan]

Let me help you then:

I'm sorry but I disagree with those attacking the ATF on this one. It's all on Stag and Malkowsk. They couldn't account for 200 HAMMERS including 62 fully automatic HAMMERS and HAMMER HEADS. They had one free pass in 2007 but didn't learn their lesson. At best, they had a cavalier attitude toward the law and their responsibilities. When a company does that, it adds fuel to the anti-HAMMER crowd.

There, that should help you realize how much of a silly witch hunt this is.

[TMD]

IIRC Stag Arms is a spinoff of CMT who has been in the business for 40 or so years and even provides parts for Colt. Also Malkowski is the son or son in law of CMTs founder

[Aguila Blanca]

IIRC Stag Arms is a spinoff of CMT who has been in the business for 40 or so years and even provides parts for Colt. Also Malkowski is the son or son in law of CMTs founder

Who is CMT? I've never heard of them.

I do think I recall that Metalform (the magazine maker) is located on John Downy Drive in New Britain, CT. I've always wondered if there was a tie-in.

[TMD]

www.continentalmachinetool.com

[Quentin2]

Continental Machine Tool Company, Inc. is a long time provider of military parts for the M16/M4 and provides quality parts to the civilian market, too.

[dogtown tom]

Nathan Let me help you then:

I'm sorry but I disagree with those attacking the ATF on this one. It's all on Stag and Malkowsk. They couldn't account for 200 HAMMERS including 62 fully automatic HAMMERS and HAMMER HEADS. They had one free pass in 2007 but didn't learn their lesson. At best, they had a cavalier attitude toward the law and their responsibilities. When a company does that, it adds fuel to the anti-HAMMER crowd.

There, that should help you realize how much of a silly witch hunt this is.

Maybe you should do a bit more research on what Stag actually did........it's a bit more than what you suggest.

[barnbwt]

"There, that should help you realize how much of a silly witch hunt this is."
Please. The NFA/GCA are wrong and unconstitutional, but they are the law of the land at present, and in this country we supposedly strive for equal and diligent application of the law. Some company doesn't account for all their drums of toxic waste, or gallons of distilled spirit, or taxes, or manufactured firearms, or classified military information? Those responsible get nailed. As with every other regulated industry --constitutional or not-- those who choose to partake know exactly what they are getting into.

The ATF used absolute kid gloves here; we're talking thousands of unserialized firearms, and dozens of post samples that were fraudulently claimed were with customers or overseas. You'd normally expect at least the man in charge to be going to prison. Meanwhile, their incompetence led them to losing merchandise. This kind of sleazy stuff is exactly why firearms manufacture got licensed in the first place, because people believed these companies were associating with criminals.

Stag made good products, but they were clearly not a well run company.

TCB

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by barnbwt

The ATF used absolute kid gloves here; we're talking thousands of unserialized firearms, and dozens of post samples that were fraudulently claimed were with customers or overseas. You'd normally expect at least the man in charge to be going to prison.

Truth.

I know of a (former) FFL whose license was taken away because, after 20+ years of running a squeaky clean operation, he happened to have a personally owned, genuine antique (pre-1898) black powder rifle in his shop when a BATFE agent happened by, and she made a stink over the fact that his personally owned, genuine antique (pre-1898) black powder rifle wasn't in his bound book.

[Kimio]

This is very sad news indeed, my AR15 is a Stag and I love it, really a great rifle.

I hope whoever picks them up brings them back to the more reputable side of the law. That is if they get picked up at all.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by KyJim

I'm sorry but I disagree with those attacking the ATF on this one. It's all on Stag and Malkowsk. They couldn't account for 200 firearms including 62 fully automatic rifles and receivers. They had one free pass in 2007 but didn't learn their lesson. At best, they had a cavalier attitude toward the law and their responsibilities.....

Originally Posted by Nathan

Let me help you then:

I'm sorry but I disagree with those attacking the ATF on this one. It's all on Stag and Malkowsk. They couldn't account for 200 HAMMERS including 62 fully automatic HAMMERS and HAMMER HEADS. They had one free pass in 2007 but didn't learn their lesson. At best, they had a cavalier attitude toward the law and their responsibilities. When a company does that, it adds fuel to the anti-HAMMER crowd....

Nathan, no, you're not helping. In fact, you're being silly.

The reality is that Stag Arms doesn't make hammers or hammerheads. It makes and sells guns, and the making and selling of guns is more heavily regulated than the making and selling of hammers and hammerheads.

You might think that ought not be the case, but what you think here doesn't matter. Malkowski and Stag Arms management had a responsibility to run the company in accordance with the law. No matter what Malkowski (or others) might think of the law, not Malkowski (nor anyone else) could have any reasonable expectation that the law wouldn't be enforced.

[Aguila Blanca]

You have to wonder what (or if) Malkowski was thinking. It ain't rocket science to understand, for example, that every finished firearm has to have a serial number. That's a standard step along the line. I've toured more than one gun factory, and it's not a step that's easily overlooked -- especially not on multiple guns.

Keeping track of guns and serial numbers? How hard can that be in this age of computers? How many other manufacturers manage to do it without any (or many) hiccups? Heck, Colt has a record of every gun they've made and sold, going back more than 100 years. They can tell you from the serial number what finish was on it, what caliber it was, the barrel length, and who it was sold to.

This was just plain dumbassery in action.

[Nathan]

I'm not saying they should go free, but we are acting like losing numbers and inventory in house is some terrible crime.

What happens when visa and Mastercard lose somebody's private information and they lose their lively hood? Do those companies get broke up? Aren't they federally regulated?

Did they destroy those GM over the deaths they weren't considering theirs.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Nathan

...we are acting like losing numbers and inventory in house is some terrible crime....

For a gun maker, under the law as it exists, it is.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Nathan

....Did they destroy those GM over the deaths they weren't considering theirs.

Well as a matter of fact, GM did pay a $900 Million fine. The recall to fix the problem cost GM about $4.1 Billion.

In addition, according to this article:

... The Justice Department agreed to defer prosecution in the case, essentially placing the company on probation for the next three years. The criminal case will then be dropped if GM continues to cooperate with federal authorities during that time.

Under the settlement GM agreed to hire an independent monitor of its recall process to insure the company continues to comply with federal safety reporting regulations. The monitor will operate a toll free phone service for people to call in complaints anonymously. ...

And Stag Arms is not "being destroyed." As noted here:

...The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is also revoking Stag's federal license to manufacture firearms, although the company can continue to produce firearms while it is pursuing a sale if ATF is satisfied with its efforts to find a new owner. The new owner would have to seek a new license.

Malkowski is scheduled to plead guilty Wednesday in federal court in New Haven to a misdemeanor charge of failure to maintain firearms records. For his guilty plea, Malkowski, 37, will pay a $100,000 fine and will not be permitted to own, operate or manage a firearms company.....
...

The company will pay a fine of $500,000 as part of its plea agreement....

You need to get your imagination under control and learn to get your facts straight.

[dogtown tom]

Aguila Blanca I know of a (former) FFL whose license was taken away because, after 20+ years of running a squeaky clean operation, he happened to have a personally owned, genuine antique (pre-1898) black powder rifle in his shop when a BATFE agent happened by, and she made a stink over the fact that his personally owned, genuine antique (pre-1898) black powder rifle wasn't in his bound book.

I think your friend told you a pretty good tale.
1. Pre 1898 or antique firearms are clearly NOT considered firearms by ATF.
§478.11 Meaning of terms.
Antique firearm. (a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica (1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


Firearm. Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm. In the case of a licensed collector, the term shall mean only curios and relics.


2. Such firearms are not subject to the Gun Control Act of 1968 and MUST NOT be recorded in the dealers bound book.
3. It takes a considerable effort to lose or have your FFL revoked. Your friend may have had other reasons for having his FFL yanked, but I guarantee you it was not for the reason you describe.

[Aguila Blanca]

Tom, I understand what you're saying, but I have known the guy for nearly 20 years, and I know he was in business as an FFL for almost 25 years when this went down. I have no reason to doubt his word.

Also, after a four-year hiatus, the BATFE just gave him back his FFL. Different agent. The agent who interviewed him during his (re)application process knew the story, laughed when my friend told it to him, and said "Her? Bwahahahaha."

[Nathan]

Frank,
I'm not going to continue the name calling....I appreciate your point. There is law and it must be followed.

We all know that compared to the total worth of the two companies that GM has deeper pockets....that is my point with the GM piece, their fine was much smaller compared to total company assets. So, my point was that lives mattered to the government less than guns.

Regarding, data handling, I don't know what business you guys are in, but an in house loss of 100 numbers is not unbelievable based on their production. So my point with the banking example is that the government puts sizable resources into auditing banking. When banks lose my personal info, the government seems to look the other way.

I have to admit, I do not know Stags case, but there are hundreds of legitimate explanations for lost data. I don't know theirs. Obviously they are not doing enough to satisfy the ATF or the ATF's boss. That is the law. These companies get into it knowing what a loss of data could mean and keep at it, so maybe they have figured out the solution that the rest of the world struggles with.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Nathan

...I have to admit, I do not know Stags case,...

That says it all. Your opinion is based on nothing more than your imagination and guesswork. Your opinion has nothing to do with what actually went on.