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Old April 22, 2019, 07:35 AM   #1
TrueBlue711
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Benefits of PCC?

I'm on the fence on getting a pistol caliber carbine (PCC). I already own a 300 Blackout AR pistol and I have it suppressed as well. With that in mind, what are the benefits of a PCC over the 300 Blackout. I know one big reason is cost of ammo, but I also have a 22 LR upper. So if I'm just wanting to plink around and not worry about cost, I use that.
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Old April 22, 2019, 07:50 AM   #2
TJB101
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After getting several 357 revolvers it’s a no brainer not to add a few lever action rifles to go along with it.
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Old April 22, 2019, 08:13 AM   #3
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I think the lever guns in magnum chamberings make sense. From the longer barrels a 357 or 44 mag is a significant step up in performance over what you'd get from a 4-6" revolver. Out to 75-100 yards they will do anything a 30-30 will do.

But in a semiauto platform I'm not sold on the idea. I'd just as soon use my 16" AR in 223, or in your case 300 BO, as any PCC in 9mm, 10mm, 40, or 45.
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Old April 22, 2019, 11:31 AM   #4
5whiskey
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With that in mind, what are the benefits of a PCC over the 300 Blackout.
Largest two I can think of are ammo cost and mitigated recoil. Oh, and I reload so reloading a slew of Pistol Rounds are a good bit quicker and easier than rifle caliber rounds.
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Old April 22, 2019, 01:10 PM   #5
Elkins45
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If you want trigger time with a centerfire rifle then a PCC is the most economical way to get it. Bulk 9mm is close to half the cost of bulk 223. And it won’t beat you up. And you can often use magazines you already have.
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Old April 22, 2019, 01:41 PM   #6
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Yes, same magazines as a handgun-Marlin Camp Carbines, e.g.
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Old April 22, 2019, 06:53 PM   #7
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Not for me. I already own a Camp 9 and a Ruger PC9, both of which use magazines fitting handguns I own. For a bit more spunk, I have a pair of Win 94 Trappers (357 & 44 mags).
Not sure that a PCC (as in an AR platform) is any advantage over 300 AAC other than ammo cost.
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Old April 23, 2019, 11:55 AM   #8
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Muzzle flash and blast indoors is one example of picking a PCC over a 5.56 AR. In a self defense situation you don’t take the time to reach for eyes and ears. You lose both night vision and hearing senses, hopefully temporarily. Another is recoil. My wife is not comfortable shooting a 9mm handgun but she likes shooting my CZ Scorpion in 9mm. Recoil is more manageable when you can shoulder the weapon, which leads to better shot placement/follow-up shots as well.

I for one don’t want to use my 12ga, 20ga, 5.56 AR, or 7.65x51 G3K indoors without at least hearing protection. I will if I have to, but given the choice...
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Old April 23, 2019, 01:04 PM   #9
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Ummmm they are insanely fun to shoot and are indoor range friendly and the shooters to your left and right won’t want to slash your tires after experiencing the muzzle blast.

I mean I guess I could come up with lots of practical tactical reasons but in my world I’m going with fun.
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Old April 23, 2019, 06:52 PM   #10
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I enjoy PCC's, cheap to feed and easy on the body for a long day at the range. I have them in 45acp, 9mm, 357, 44 & 45C.


While not a carbine I recently started using my PA-45 as my bed side gun. 26 heavy pills that are running sub sonic is likely better for my ears & eyes than my 870 when things go bump in the night.
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Old April 24, 2019, 08:31 AM   #11
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I resisted PCCs for years, now have several in 9mm and one in 10mm. They made me sell off my .300BOs. Easier on the pocketbook and ears and better terminal performance with premium bullets at a much lower cost. Reloading 9mm is significantly easier and cheaper than 300BO or .223 as well, and as a high volume shooter, that point alone is enough.
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Old April 24, 2019, 08:35 AM   #12
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Is the CMMG radial delayed blowback system worth it?

The idea of an AR15 that saves money by shooting 9mm is neat, but not if it costs twice as much as a normal AR.

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Old April 24, 2019, 10:03 AM   #13
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If there's any chance that you are interested and have PCC competitions available to you, that's reason enough to get one. PCC shoots are crazy fun, very fast, short range, multi stage events where you shoot a lot in very short time span.

But, that means 300 Blackout will not be allowed. Also makes a LRBHO way more valuable.

My experience is that adapters are finicky, I ended up replacing my Spikes Enhanced adapter with a dedicated 9mm lower. Far better. I went with a Colt pattern CMMG lower, a basic parts kit and an ALG ACT trigger. The ASC mags are cheap and completely reliable.

You may be surprised by the amount of recoil, my AR with a muzzle brake recoils less than my 9mm.
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Old April 25, 2019, 12:17 PM   #14
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Advantages: cost of ammo, pleasantness to shoot, and potentially more ranges to shoot at.
A suppressed .300blk is nice to shoot (and more versatile), but more expensive and probably won't be allowed on pistol-only ranges.
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Old April 25, 2019, 02:57 PM   #15
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A Destroyer Carbine and a Star chambered in 9MM Largo ?
The 22 LR is the original pistol/long gun caliber, no ?
A bolt action pistol caliber carbine, makes it easier to retrieve that brass for reloading.
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Old April 28, 2019, 08:52 AM   #16
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I am not sure that the CMMG delay system is ready for prime time. There are benefits in terms of being able to run a wider, and hotter, array of loads, but the failures are more than acceptable at this time. Recoil impulse felt sluggish to me as well. The 9mm just does not need a gas system or delayed blowback if tuned right. As you get past 9mm in terms of energy (.38 Super, .40 S&W, 10mm, etc.) then yes, something other than blowback is preferred.
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Old April 28, 2019, 09:18 AM   #17
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My 45 Banshee didn't run even after 2 (or was it 3?) trips back to the factory. They swore it ran 100% for them at the factory, but I couldn't get through 1 factory Glock mag (several different mags, several brands of ball ammo) without a failure -- often more than 1. I really really wanted that gun to run, too. I'd love a 9mm PCC, but it won't be CMMG.
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Old April 28, 2019, 12:25 PM   #18
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The Rugers with their non AR configuration are good guns for ban states to be used in competition and SD. I'm seeing lots of them here in TX, even though we are not a ban state.
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Old April 28, 2019, 04:33 PM   #19
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Just got a 45 Banshee, and it has not bobbled at all in it's first outing with SB 230 fmj and Glock 13 round mag. Will try other rounds this week, and higher capacity mags.

Am big fan of pistol caliber carbines in lever and semi auto. For the 357/44 mag a lot less recoil, easier to hit with and considerable more umph. For the semi just a lot easier to hit with, and only get a slight energy bump with longer barrel. A 16 in 9mm with 124 plus p gets into 357 mag with 4 in barrel territory, and a whole lot easier to hit with.

However, it is tough to beat a standard size pistol in very tight quarters.

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Old April 28, 2019, 07:35 PM   #20
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I built an AR pistol in 40 S&W last year. I liked it so much I built another upper with a shorter barrel. Why 40 you ask? Logistics, I have lots of free 40 ammo. With the 8.5" barrel and blast forward muzzle device shooting 180's it is almost hearing safe. For me a suppressor is out of the question. Even the 4.5" barreled upper is magnitudes quieter than a 5.56 or 300 AAC AR pistol.

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Old April 30, 2019, 09:47 PM   #21
zeke
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Second outing with 45 Banshee, about 120 rounds . 25 rd SGM, 25 rd KCI and Kriss extensions ran without a hitch. Again with S&B ball. Also ran fine suppressed, but will order the carrier weight kit for good measure.
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Old May 6, 2019, 07:26 AM   #22
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Do it! I have zero regrets compared to going .300AAC for reasons mentioned above. Plus, no risk of cross-pollination with .300BLK/5.56 is a big thing for me. Also, using a 7.5" barrel with 9MM (according to my chrono) adds about 150-200 FPS over a standard pistol barrel.

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Old May 11, 2019, 08:39 AM   #23
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FWIW... I can't remember anyone I know regretting a 9x19 PCC purchase.

The bark and blast from an AR based PCC ejection port is easily tamed, with a heavier buffer weight and recoil spring.

My Colt pattern 9x19 runs like a champ with a .308 Tubbs Flatwire recoil spring and a 7.5ish oz buffer weight.

Little if any recoil, fast and accurate out to 100-125yds with a red dot, and just a fun firearm.

The added velocities, from a longer barrel effectively extend the performance "window" of HP rounds.

I enjoy mine enough, that I am considering a 8.5" or 10.5" AR pistol as an addition to the caliber family.

For what it is worth... here is some chrono data for the 16" barreled 9x19... 129 different factory loads.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/...29025#i7429025

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Old May 12, 2019, 12:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Elkins45 View Post
... And it [9mm] won’t beat you up.
Are you inferring that a .223 or for that matter, a 5.56 rd fired from an AR platform has enough recoil to "beat you up.?" Seriously?

As a US Army weapons instructor in early 1970 at Ft. Knox, we use to show the trainees that they had nothing to fear from the recoil when shooting an M16. How, you ask? We'd grab the rifle by the pistol grip in our shooting hand, put the buttstock against our nose and chin and fire a round showing them that it has virtually no recoil.

Try that with your PCC and get back to us on how you're doing. I haven't fired a 9mm PCC, but I have fired a 40s&w Hi-Point carbine and the recoil of it is significantly more pronounced than any .223/5.56 AR15 I've ever shot. (And I have 3 myself.)
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Old May 12, 2019, 12:48 PM   #25
Glenn E. Meyer
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I find the recoil of a 223 AR or a 9mm Ruger really trivial for a 100 round match. Shotguns are different - one reason I prefer the 223s for the home defense long arm.
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