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Old March 26, 2019, 12:34 PM   #1
Nathan
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Accuracy with M1 Garand

Do you have an M1 Garand? If so, what kind of 100yd groups are you seeing? I saw 4.9” for 8 at 100 with creedmor sports ammo....good stuff, I think.

Should I be better than that? I feel I should be closer to 2” at 100 yds.
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Old March 26, 2019, 01:14 PM   #2
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3-5" groups seems acceptable on an old barrel. I think 2" at 100 yards is probably not going to happen without some major accurizing like bedding the stock and a new barrel and good ammo.

Do you have a Throat Erosion and Muzzle Wear Gauge?
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Old March 26, 2019, 01:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by veprdude View Post
3-5" groups seems acceptable on an old barrel. I think 2" at 100 yards is probably not going to happen without some major accurizing like bedding the stock and a new barrel and good ammo.

Do you have a Throat Erosion and Muzzle Wear Gauge?


Agreed


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Old March 26, 2019, 01:27 PM   #4
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My neighbor has a M1 Garand and was having difficulty getting good groups. He asked me to shoot it and I was able to get good groups consistently. The only difference that made sense was that he had developed a flinch that I did not have because I shoot larger caliber rifles and he does not.

The next few times we went to the range I let him shoot my 300 Weatherby Magnum and my McMillan Tac-338 Lapua Magnum. The results were the same but when he went back to the Garand his first shot was wild but the shots he took after that grouped well and in the 1 to 2" realm.

After that session I let him shoot my Barret M82A1 50 BMG and then he shot the 338 and his groups were good, not great but much better than before.

Long winded explanation of how to get rid of flinch but this is what I suspect your problems could be stemming from and until you learn that the rifle will not hurt you, you probably won't be able to group it any better than what you are now.
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Old March 26, 2019, 01:38 PM   #5
T. O'Heir
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Accuracy with an M1 Rifle depends on the barrel and the ammo. 5" at 100 isn't horrible though. As I recall, 3" at 100 was the requirement for M2 Ball. 2" at 100 means a Match grade barrel with all the accurizing techniques done to it(sights, trigger, bedding, etc.) and match grade ammo. Even then it's kind of dreaming to expect 2".
Creedmoor Sports ammo is not match ammo. It's not .30 M2 equivalent either. It's more like .30 M1 ammo.
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Old March 26, 2019, 01:48 PM   #6
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I built my own from parts and fitted everything well, and also glasses the stock and for-end ferrule. With the best load I have made up, it shoots a bit under 2" at 100 yards and I have got a few groups of 1-1/4" but I can't do that on demand.

I know a few folks that shot them in competition who did "glue-ins' with their glass bedding, and tuned everything on the rifles who get MOA and a bit less, so it is possible, but in my opinion it's not very practical. A rifle that needs a dry-ice bath to field strip is not something I'd want, but the old M1 can be made that accurate if you have the best of parts and glue it into the stock.
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Old March 26, 2019, 01:51 PM   #7
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If you got your Garand from the CMP and it doesn't have a new barrel it's almost guaranteed to have an uneven crown from cleaning rods. When the barrel crown is no longer symmetrical it can have a huge impact on accuracy.

I have an IHC with muzzle wear well past a 3, Throat Erosion a 2. So I guess lots of cleaning rods have worn out the muzzle. Still shoots ok. 4"ish groups at 100 with Prvi Partizan.
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Old March 26, 2019, 03:59 PM   #8
agtman
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Quote:
My neighbor has a M1 Garand and was having difficulty getting good groups. He asked me to shoot it and I was able to get good groups consistently. The only difference that made sense was that he had developed a flinch that I did not have because I shoot larger caliber rifles and he does not.

The next few times we went to the range I let him shoot my 300 Weatherby Magnum and my McMillan Tac-338 Lapua Magnum. The results were the same but when he went back to the Garand his first shot was wild but the shots he took after that grouped well and in the 1 to 2" realm.

After that session I let him shoot my Barret M82A1 50 BMG and then he shot the 338 and his groups were good, not great but much better than before.

Long winded explanation of how to get rid of flinch but this is what I suspect your problems could be stemming from and until you learn that the rifle will not hurt you, you probably won't be able to group it any better than what you are now.
Actually, I agree with this on this point: unless the barrel is just a completely shot-out tomato stake, 90% of M1 accuracy problems are shooter-induced.

Only when you've remove shooter error(s) (flinching; not shouldering the rifle properly; failing to achieve natural-point-of-aim before firing, etc), can you proceed to determine if group dispersions beyond the norm (3-4 MOA @ 100-yds) are related to the rifle itself - e.g., an overly tight front hand-guard impinging on the rear of the gas cylinder as the barrel heats up from firing.
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Old March 26, 2019, 05:59 PM   #9
1stmar
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I have 3 garands:
Shuffs mini g (shorthened version) no custom action or barrel but new stock and good barrel. Shoots 1.5”
Cmp service grade nothing done- -3” if i shim the stock its sub 2”
Cmp special 308 - bedded etc sub moa.

Point is, you can make them very good shooters but as they come from cmp probably 3” with a decent barrel. Doesnt take much to get them respectable
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Old March 26, 2019, 10:48 PM   #10
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Mine is a CMP Special 30’06 with a new Criterion barrel.


I guess I need more practice!
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Old March 26, 2019, 10:49 PM   #11
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I have 2 from cmp, one special grade and one service grade. All with new barrels and new stocks. With my handloads, 2" at 100yd is not unusual. Minimum 10 rounds groups.

-TL

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Old March 27, 2019, 12:48 AM   #12
1stmar
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Nathan my groups were with handloads but i would expect a cmp special w criterion barrel and new stock to shoot better than that. Make sure your ammp is for a garand and not just 30-06 ammo or you could damage the op rod. Unless you have an adjustable gas plug. Im not familiar w creedmoore sports ammo.
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Old March 27, 2019, 10:25 AM   #13
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Nathan my groups were with handloads but i would expect a cmp special w criterion barrel and new stock to shoot better than that. Make sure your ammp is for a garand and not just 30-06 ammo or you could damage the op rod. Unless you have an adjustable gas plug. Im not familiar w creedmoore sports ammo.
The CMP sells Creedmoor. I'd hope they would not sell 30-06 ammo hot enough to damage the rifles they sell.
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Old March 27, 2019, 12:28 PM   #14
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Mine is a CMP Special 30’06 with a new Criterion barrel.


I guess I need more practice!
I think that's all you need Nathan, the 06 is a pretty hard recoiling round and it's really easy to develop a flinch from it. Dropping down to a lighter bullet weight can really help reduce the slap.

Another suggestion is to shoot from prone rather than a bench until you are so comfortable shooting it that you don't remember actually pulling the trigger. When you can do that, your flinch will be gone.
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Old March 27, 2019, 12:41 PM   #15
T. O'Heir
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"...with a new Criterion barrel..." Load some match grade ammo. 168 grain HPBT Match bullets from Hornady work well with IMR4064. Other bullet options are Sierra 150, 155 or 175 grain Match Kings. The trick is meticulous loading techniques. Mostly involves weighing every charge. Difficult it's not. Kind of assumes you reloading though.
"...pretty hard recoiling round..." Not out of a gas operated semi-auto like an M1.
"...hope they would not sell 30-06 ammo..." Nope. The Creedmoor stuff runs at a nominal 2720 FPS. .30 M1 ran at 2700 FPS. .30 M2 at 2800 FPS. Same as .30 AP.
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Old March 28, 2019, 07:53 AM   #16
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Mine is a CMP Special 30’06 with a new Criterion barrel.

I guess I need more practice!
I have a Correct Grade HRA model with an original barrel that's a 1+ at the muzzle as well as Special Service Grade Springfield with a new Criterion barrel and the Springer produces groups half the size as the GI barreled one. The GI spec for accuracy is about 5" at 100 yds if I remember correctly.
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Old March 28, 2019, 05:15 PM   #17
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The two Garands I have will regularly shoot sub 2" three (3) shot groups...I didn't believe this myself until using a single loading device, forget what it's called, I think SLED, so I could be light and careful on the trigger without the threat of the weapon doubling on me. This with Prvi Partisan 150 Ball and bench rest.

They are stock SA 43' and 45' DCM guns but I did a lot of parts replacing when I first got them for reliability purposes.

IMO, The mighty Garand is a target rifle masquerading as a Battle Rifle
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Old March 29, 2019, 03:37 AM   #18
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The only Garand I've ever shot was from the CMP and clay pigeons at 100 yards was easy work, pretty sure the ammo was Greek surplus.
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Old March 29, 2019, 07:21 PM   #19
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Clay pigeons at 100 sounds about right.
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Old March 30, 2019, 04:50 AM   #20
JJ45
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Clay pigeons at 100 sounds about right.
I n his book "THE COMPLETE M1 GARAND...A GUIDE FOR THE SHOOTER AND COLLECTOR"

Jim Thompson states on the first page of the preface; "The service rifle outperformed the venerable '03 Springfield and all variants thereof in competition, shooting scores as early as 1946 with service ammunition that the ancient boltgun never equaled with prewar match loads"
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Old March 31, 2019, 01:40 PM   #21
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Some garands will flat out shoot.

This is my Arlington Ordnance “Tanker” Garand chambered in 7.62 NATO set in a hogged out plastic Drill Stock shooting 40 year old Malaysian surplus ammo.

100 yards off the bench.


That’s six rounds in one bullet splash before I started adjusting the rear sight to the right.

I bought this rifle brand new in 1994 and it was the best 300 bucks I’ve ever spent on a rifle.
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Old March 31, 2019, 05:46 PM   #22
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That's identical to the A/O 7.62 'Tanker' I bought that same year! ... or maybe 1993 (forget now). Anyway, early '90s. The barrel is actually stamped,'7.62mm,' not '.308.'

The only difference is my local gunsmith (an M1-expert & match shooter) bedded it into the original stock and smoothed up the trigger pull.

Over the years this Tanker M1 has produced better groups at 100- and 200-yds than most guys' full-size Garands.

For years it was my 'truck gun,' general range beater, and 30-cal plinker for shooting the various makes of mil-surplus 7.62 I picked up here and there.

Like you said, for what I paid for it back then, it was a steal.
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Old April 3, 2019, 08:38 AM   #23
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I've also found that the CMP Greek M-2 ball ammo is decently accurate up to a couple hundred yds as I've used it to shoot bowling pins with my Criterion barreled M1. However, out at longer ranges my 168grn handloads will significantly out shoot it.
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Old April 3, 2019, 08:45 AM   #24
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I've got a FedOrd Garand rebuild with a new barrel. It's nothing spectacular but it shoots well enough. I've found, however, it is pretty picky with ammo. I generally shoot any generic 150grn bullet over 47grn IMR4895, but I loaded up some test loads with a 168grn Nosler CC... and those groups tightened up by half.
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Old April 7, 2019, 05:08 PM   #25
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Do you have an M1 Garand? If so, what kind of 100yd groups are you seeing? I saw 4.9” for 8 at 100 with creedmor sports ammo....good stuff, I think.

Should I be better than that? I feel I should be closer to 2” at 100 yds.
With other ammo?




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