Is Reloading too Expensive?

[44 AMP]

Well, I read through all this, to catch up, and I've got a couple comments, which don't apply to most people...

To answer the OP question, is reloading too expensive, I have to ask, "compared to what???"

Many people have mentioned the "cost" of their time, in relation to the cost of reloading, and I've been thinking a bit about that.

What is the "cost" of your time? Or, as more commonly phrased, what is your time worth??

After some reflection, I think its zero. Unless you're retired, or in some other situation where you don't have to work to get money, then your time isn't worth squat. Your work is. If your time was worth money, then you're losing money when you eat, sleep go to the bathroom, spend time with your spouse, or spend time looking for a spouse, and nearly every other thing we do in our lives.

Count your beans any way you want, I'll do mine my way, and my way isn't fixated on the $ value as much as the practical value.

I began reloading in the early 70s, and what I learned early on was that I didn't "save" money, what I got was being able to shoot 2 or 3 times more for the same amount of cash outlay.

Also, I got ammunition that NO ONE ELSE in the world had. Ammo that was tailored to MY guns and MY needs. And, I discovered that, for me, it wasn't a chore, it was something I liked doing.

Over the past half century I've made it a point to ALWAYS get reloading dies for every reloadable cartridge I had a gun for. (also got some I didn't have a gun for at the time, cause, you know, someday I might, and they keep..)

I'm set up to reload for over 30 different rifle and handgun cartridges. Some of them are things for which no commercially produced ammo exists. Have I "broken even" on the cost of my tools? don't know, don't care, why does that matter??

Anytime any one asks an "is it worth it" question, the answer is completely relative to the person asking it, their individual situation and priorities determine that, for them, not my, or anyone else's opinion.

Will you save money reloading?? I didn't. But what I did get was a LOT more shooting experience, which made me a better shot, and I enjoy it. isn't that the real point??

[Unclenick]

so it's a training expense. That's a good way to look at it.

I long ago lost interest in keeping track of the financial aspects (not counting the current shortage-related prices). I handload to get the ammo I want to shoot rather than have a manufacturer decide that for me. Even though strict accounting practice would have me include the equipment amortization cost and the future opportunity costs in each handloaded round, my way of justifying the expense has always been centered around having custom ammunition that shoots better than ammo I can buy off the shelf. Besides, if handloading wasn't my hobby, something else that would probably cost me more would be, so handloading saves me that alternate hobby expense. We scuba-dived for a decade and I can't begin to assess the cost of each minute spent underwater. Regulators and BCDs and wet suits and masks and flippers and dive computers and training and dive boat fees and air travel to get to warm blue waters. A lot of grown-up hobbies are not particularly economical.

[603Country]

That’s well said by 44 AMP. And specific ammo options were touched on. Till I got a 223, which I never intended to buy, but got hooked on loading for Dad, one bullet type and weight was fine for each rifle. But with the 223, the bullet options seem endless. I can set up to load and use 40, 50, 52, 53, 55, 60, 63, 64, 65, and 69 gr bullets. Flexibility is a wonderful thing. I haven’t bought or shot a factory round in maybe 40 years. It hasn’t been about the cost in decades. I just like reloading.

And another thing…with my reloads, I have no concerns about where the bullet is going when I’m hunting. They go where the crosshairs are placed. Every time. No worries about buying a new box of 20 rounds and hoping they are “on”, and burning 5 rounds to find out.

[Paul B.]

I was born before the start of WW2. It was probably a few years after the end when I started having an interest in guns and shooting and was fortunate enough to be mentored by a few old guys in my neighborhood. They answered my questions, taught me to cast bullets and what went along to making them work.In 1954 for my 16th birthday those old guys gave me loading tools. a Lyman 310 toong tool and several sets of dies. A casing pot nd a mold was part of the package. They walked me through the process and I made my first 30-30 and 30-06 ammo running cast bullets and Unique powder. I couldn't wait to go to the range and try my loads.
That was a long time ago and back then I really think one did save money. I've picked up a lot of reloading stuff, presses, dies, more molds (99 at last count) you name it and I probably have it. Most of it probably amortized over the years but if not? Who cares. It's been a good ride.'BUT! The one thing I learn and it was made evident during these shortages these past few years, if you have the tools, supplies and some time you can still shoot. That was made evident by those old guys that mentored me way back when. During WW2, nothing was available. It all went toward the war effort. Some .22 LR was available to farmers to protect their crops and ranchers could get 30-30 ammo for use against predators but my understanding was that was about it. My mentors were able to keep on shooting , at least on a somewhat limited basis because the cast bullets and were reloaders. In 1949, I went on my very first deer hunt. My Great grandfather's old 30-30 was what I used. My dad had some WW2 30-06 which he gave to one of the guys there at the hunt. He said he was going to pull the bullets and convert the brass to .270 Win.for his rifle. As late as 1949 ammo was still a bit on the scarce side.
Did I save money? Maybe in the beginning but that doesn't matter. I could shoot during the shortages when others could not. Even if nothing were available I probably could have enough to shoot for two or three years by sticking to cast bullet loads. To me that spells freedom.
Paul B.

[44 AMP]

After we converted over to wartime production, (beginning in 42) the only "civilian" calibers produced were .22lr .30-30, and 12ga. And those also had military use. Even the .30-30!

The guys guarding our forests (west coast, primarily) were issued .30-30s. They were available, didn't take away from the war effort and wood was, after all, a valuable natural resource.

As to the options for .223, for me, it has the least options of my CF .22s.
Got rid of my last AR decades ago, (kept my mini-14 ), so no modern AR with the fast twist for the heavy bullets. No point to them, for me. I've got .22 Hornet, .222 Rem, .223 and .22-250 so I've got all the .22 options I need, without going over 55gr (have some 63gr semi spitzers, don't use them..) When I want a heavier bullet I go to a larger caliber. I have .24. .25, 26,.30, .32, .35,.37, and .45 caliber rifles in various cartridges, so I've got those pretty well covered, too. Reload for all of them. Get what I WANT and what I can use, and not what the ridiculously expensive factory wants to sell me.

For my Mini-14 I basically stick to the 55gr stuff, for me, that rifle is the "emergency use bullet spitter" (because its very dependable) my hunting is done with the other .22s I own, bolt guns and single shots.

I spent a couple decades going to gun shows and buying more components than I used, whenever I could, so I have a pretty good inventory and am not overy concerned with current shortages, or prices. I will admit that I don't shoot much for just fun lately and so I'm not hosting blasting parties with milsurp ammo anymore, I simply can't replace that stuff for any reasonable cost. So, I'm sitting on a bit , but it keeps well...

[HiBC]

It probably depends where you are on the time continuum.

Breaking in now,as a new reloader? Thats a tough one. But I don't know that its easy shooting factory loads.

I started reloading in the 1960's. I'll spare you a rundown of obsolete prices.

Stories repeat themselves and this is not my first rodeo. I have observed the cycles of politics and prices.

I loathe the hoarders and resellers,the scalpers, the black marketers who create and exploit shortages to the detriment of us all.
I wish every plague and pestilence upon them.

Develop the ability to recognize the time to say "These ARE the good old days."

On these pages of TFL, maybe three years ago,folks in the gun biz were bemoaning the "Trump Slump" ......meaning steady state,non panic buying and stable prices.
Sure,the Mom and Pop LGS was having trouble competing with the Big Box, etc,but that,unfortunately,is just Life in America.

The 22 LR crisis triggered me. I always have believed in stocking enough brass to burn out the barrel of most of my rifles. Or at least a 500 lot.

A large lot of uniform virgin brass makes record keeping and quality much easier. And a 5 gal bucket of once fired 5,56 for about $130 delivered was "These are the good old days" .

I do not intend to make this political,. I can identify a relevant time period as "Trump era"

Trump era 5000 lots of primers were under $150 and 8lb jugs of powder were under $125 . Hornady was selling boxes of 600 75 gr JHP bullets for just over $100.
Its only been two or three years since we were in "The good old days"

I'm 69 yrs old. I have presses,dies,molds,luber sizer.scales,measures,trimmers ,priming tools...measuring tools...considerable investment over a lifetime. But always what I could afford.
My point. I don't have to make capital expenditures. I have the tools.
I scored wheelweights when tire shops would still part with a 5 gal bucket .

Folks gave me lead pipe,sheet,etc. I have my bullet makins. I even have a Monster old grey Lyman press that will accept Corbin swaging dies.

Long,long ago I bought primers 100 pack at a time. But along the way.when I noticed I was down to a couple of thousand,of a given size,I ordered more.

Sure,I could use some more 30-06 brass, H4831sc, and H-110,but what I have will last at least till 2024.

Most of my shooting needs are covered for this lifetime.

Yes, reloading makes economic sense for me. Mostly,it costs nothing but my time because I won't need to replace it.

We live in interesting times. I like to think they will normalize.

Prices may never return to what they were 3 years ago. The same might be said of gasoline,bacon,housing,and several other things.

But a time will return when competition between sellers will overcome the desperation and panic of buyers. We will have entered a new "pretty good old days"
A wise person would project a forecast of needs for at least five years.

Have a buffer, Reserve it,then buy as you go.

Thats not much help for the newbies. Y'all could build a flintlock. Thats fun shooting,too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Along the lines of post #126:

These days,with energy prices,a guy might get a woodstove. If nothing else,for backup. Of course,then you need a chainsaw, or two. Saw files. Goggles Gloves. A wood trailer and a one ton 4WD pickup. A splitter.

A woodshed...A slab and a 24 by 40 metal building ought to do.

See,at some point its more than the heat bill. It gives a guy a pursuit. Something to think about and do. Some guys like to get a permit,go to the national forest,and cut wood.

Its sort of astounding how far many of the USA shooters and loaders have evolved.

Was a time a well equipt loader had a single station press,a manual,dies,in the press priming,a scale,a dipper,and a lube pad. Calipers were a gem.

And we mostly found our way from a few magazine articles,our manual,and maybe a friend. But we were mostly on our own. Recycling our factory load brass for 40 or 60 rounds to sight in and go hunting.

Now we have forums,ballistic software,chronographs,youtube, web connect to hogdon or Hornady...Midway,Grafs,Brownells,Natchez,Powder valley.

Long range shooting and 0.5 MOA.

All that grew from somewhere,

Probably from the seed of folks wanting to save a bit on ammo.
Add to that the great annoyance of going to the LGS to buy ammo.

"We have the Remington 180 grs and Federal 165s ."

"OK,I'll take 2 boxes of the Remington 180s."

Go to the range .Me and the Olde Weaver K-4 chased the groups around the target some getting the sight in "just right" and practicing a bit.

Go back to the LGS to get another box for the hunt.

No,we sold out of them Remington 180s. I can sell you Winchester 150s.

Good reason to handload. MY load is always in stock in my ammo locker.

[Mike Irwin]

"After we converted over to wartime production, (beginning in 42) the only "civilian" calibers produced were .22lr .30-30, and 12ga. And those also had military use. Even the .30-30! "

Also .38 Special and .38 S&W. Both of those also had military applications, but both, and .38 Special especially, were needed on the home front for police and for the huge increase in armed guards at plants producing wartime material.

[44 AMP]

yes, entirely right, I left those out, was thinking in long arm terms when I posted. Interestingly enough, I know of some defense plant security guards that got .38 S&Ws not .38 specials.

Probably a matter of what was available in the supply chain at the time of the request. A lot of things, (especially aircraft) that we had built, (or were building) and had not yet delivered for British contracts got taken for use by the US govt, due to immediate need in the early days of the war.

The equipment that was "diverted" to US use was, generally made up later, We weren't trying to cheat our allies, wartime priorities just made them wait a bit longer for some things. In some cases this led to the cancellation of contracts, and placement of new ones, as we began producing newer, upgraded models and types (primarily aircraft) with our expanding production capacity.

[Reloadron]

At 6:00 AM on a nice summer morning I have friends and neighbors loading golf clubs and gear in their trunk for a day on the golf course. It makes them happy and they enjoy it. I don't play golf, never had the interest. On that same summer morning I am loading rifles in the truck, ammunition and my range gear. It makes me happy.

I began my love of shooting at age 8 and today at 71 it continues. It's something I enjoy and I figure I am fortunate enough to enjoy it. I like rolling my own ammunition. Does it save money? Beats me but I seem to shoot more. At my age I am not going to start depriving myself of the things which make me happy and things I enjoy. Life is short so enjoy it while we can. I can't buy 22 LR at the local hardware store for 50 cents a box anymore but I don't plan on stopping 22 LR ammunition.

Ron

[stagpanther]

At 6:00 AM on a nice summer morning I have friends and neighbors loading golf clubs and gear in their trunk for a day on the golf course. It makes them happy and they enjoy it. I don't play golf, never had the interest. On that same summer morning I am loading rifles in the truck, ammunition and my range gear. It makes me happy.

I've always considered the sport of shooting as high-speed golf.

[Reloadron]

High speed golf. I have to remember that. Absolutely great!

Ron

[Reloadron]

44Amp mentions:

Many people have mentioned the "cost" of their time, in relation to the cost of reloading, and I've been thinking a bit about that.

What is the "cost" of your time? Or, as more commonly phrased, what is your time worth??

After some reflection, I think its zero. Unless you're retired, or in some other situation where you don't have to work to get money, then your time isn't worth squat. Your work is. If your time was worth money, then you're losing money when you eat, sleep go to the bathroom, spend time with your spouse, or spend time looking for a spouse, and nearly every other thing we do in our lives.

I share his views. I started reloading in '72 after returning from an overseas tour. I just developed an interest in very accurate ammunition. Reloading is I guess like shooting for me, it's a hobby or simply something I enjoy doing. My time for shooting like my time now being retired is an act of leisure and I can't put a time is money on leisure activities.

Ron

[Mike Irwin]

Throw a golf ball down range and blatt at it with your .22 and you've got the best of both worlds.

[kilotanker22]

Originally Posted by Mike Irwin

Throw a golf ball down range and blatt at it with your .22 and you've got the best of both worlds.

Best advice in this whole thread

[HiBC]

Biathalon

[higgite]

Precision skeet shooting.

[9MMand223only]

I don't think this thread makes any sense. Its no QUESTION whatsoever, reloading is cheaper. You can spend under $200 and start reloading.

	Powder	       Brass	 Bullet	Primer    Reloads Commerical	% better
Pistol	 $0.021 	 $0.06 	 $0.10 	 $0.10 	 $0.28 	 $0.45 	-55%
223/556	 $0.103 	 $0.15 	 $0.10 	 $0.10 	 $0.45 	 $0.60 	-40%
	$30/per lb

The brass price assumes your paying for cleaned, 1x shot cases.
If you re-use brass, the price goes lower. I use brass 10x sometimes.
For the cost of the cheapest dirt commercial ammo, I can make premium loads that cost over $1.25 per load commercially.

Also, there is no price you can put on doing something you like. Reloading is a hobby, it bides time as you get older, instead of watching TV.

I make what I want, when I want, and I dont have to look around online or drive to the store, so shipping cost and fuel and that time is saved too.

[Grey_Lion]

While it is possible to reload cheaply and at a MUCH reduced price over what's on the shelf now - price is not why I reload.

I can produce a box of 50 .40 S&W reloads with scrap lead cast projectiles and free to me range brass for appx $4 a box. My JHP .40 I can produce for $7/box - So yeah - that's a VAST savings over the $45/box off the shelf I'm seeing in gun stores now ( before COVID you could find a box of production .40 S&W for $29 to $32 )

I reload for superior quality. I quality control my reloads 5 to 7 times per round throughout my process. Production ammo take samples per 10000 rounds for quality control - see the difference? In my last 30000 reloads, I have experienced 5 miss-fires. Production ammo - I've had as many as 3 miss-fires in a single package of 50.

I customize my projectiles from the following standpoints - lead alloy - projectile lube - powder coat - projectile nose ogive shapes - hollow point projectiles in cast lead which I can do in multiple configurations - custom projectile metal jackets - custom jacketed hollow points - creased & uncreased JHPs - semi-frangible rounds - projectile weights in .40 from 115 to 187 grain - different powder charges from 3.8 to 6 grains in different grades of powder for different performance - different primers from different manufacturers - different case prep processes including dry and wet with different types of polishing media - different case brass headstamps which may perform differently in different weapons -

My equipment collection was not cheap - I've spent close to $2000 on my gear over the course of my hobby. It is an investment which has been built up over time. MOST of my reloading could have been done with less than $400 of equipment.

For me it is in no way the cost. For me it's all about the craft of reloading. A part of that craft is not to be reliant upon ammunition manufacturers and their associated costs and supply chain problems. Another part of the craft is knowing my weapons and ammunition FAR better than the vast majority of gun owners ever will or ever care to.

[rodfac]

I too have loaded my own ammunition for decades; started in my early teen years in the late 60's loading .357 rounds with a Lyman 310 Tong Tool, Bullseye powder and a hand made powder dipper adjusted for throw weight on a friend's scale. It was painfully slow but taught me the value of my time, not to mention the importance of grip, sight picture & alignment and the mantra, "one shot at a time". Sixty years later, I love my Dillon presses for pistol, Herrett turret for the rifles and all the associated tools...it's been a fun odyssey.

After decades of slowly increasing prices, I was painfully surprised by the hoarding & shortages of the Obama years. I swore I'd never get caught again and laid in a 4-5 year supply of the essentials: primers, powder, brass, and jacketed bullets. Now at 75, I may have a life-time supply. When combined with a life-time's worth of equipment/experience casting my own bullets, I'm riding out the current political/societal mess. It's not been fun...and for many, it WILL get worse.

Would I advise starting out, even with today's ridiculous prices, HELL YES. Our 2nd Amendment rights are eroding. Shutting off the ammunition supply, via price or fiat, is a real possibility. Load your own or take up archery!

If you're just starting, buy what and when you can. Doing it on a paycheck to paycheck basis spreads out the pain. IMHO, we'll never see the post-Obama rock bottom prices for most handgun components, so make your plans accordingly.

Best of luck, Rod

[USSR]

I swore I'd never get caught again and laid in a 4-5 year supply of the essentials: primers, powder, brass, and jacketed bullets. Now at 75, I may have a life-time supply. When combined with a life-time's worth of equipment/experience casting my own bullets, I'm riding out the current political/societal mess.

Ditto, but I'm 4 years younger than you, Rod.

Don

[cdoc42]

Noting some admitted ages here, I wonder what the age range of TFL members is. If we have a significant number of 30-40-year-olds who do NOT reload, or even shoot for that matter, disinterest will be the future common denominator for gun control.

My son grew up with shooting and hunting as a hobby but his career moved him to the big city and away from shooting to favoring golf. He tried to get me interested but I told him the only way I'll go is with my shotgun to see if I can obliterate his driving distance.

[kilotanker22]

Originally Posted by cdoc42

Noting some admitted ages here, I wonder what the age range of TFL members is. If we have a significant number of 30-40-year-olds who do NOT reload, or even shoot for that matter, disinterest will be the future common denominator for gun control.

My son grew up with shooting and hunting as a hobby but his career moved him to the big city and away from shooting to favoring golf. He tried to get me interested but I told him the only way I'll go is with my shotgun to see if I can obliterate his driving distance.

Someone should make a poll somewhere on here. I am 34

[MarkCO]

Reloading is not too expensive. It is the match fees, tag fees and guns that really add up.

I cleaned and organized my gun room yesterday. Found about 10K bullets I forgot I had. Loaded some .45-70. 4 hours with Dr. Shrink would have cost me a lot more.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by kilotanker22

Someone should make a poll somewhere on here. I am 34

I get the NSSF demographics package sent to me every year. While the demographics are still heavily slanted toward mid to old middle class white guys, the atypical demographics are increasing. Age dropping, gender about the same, minorities increasing. The "ancillary" pursuits are dropping though, hunting, camping, fishing, reloading, while target shooting and self defense are the driving hot markets.

One of the "Elite" ranges I know of is out of rental safe space for members and has a 2 year waiting list. Most of the new gun owners I have taught have NO interest in continued training, reloading, etc. Most just want a one time intro and think that is good enough. My friend who used to teach the Reloading class 4 times a year can't fill one a year to half capacity. Most of his students are single women.

I am 54. But my 17 year old and 20 year old can both shoot, hunt, fish, reload, etc., and they love it.

[Nick_C_S]

Someone should make a poll somewhere on here. I am 34

I am 59.

I didn't have children of my own (but 4 adult children via marriage), so I didn't raise any firearm enthusiasts. I myself wasn't raised in a firearm household (my father was in the army, but didn't hunt or shoot and owned no guns). I was fascinated by guns from the first time I shot one while camping as a child (22 single action). I hit the cans from the first shot. So I got my first gun at age 21 in 1983. I still don't hunt. I don't like killing animals.

I will support any of my grandchildren in the shooting sports, should it arise. My oldest grandchild is 10 and she just got a bb gun. I have two very young grandsons whose father is a hunter, so I'm sure they'll carry on that tradition.