8mm-06

ligonierbill · January 8, 2018, 11:04 AM

First, I have exactly one data point on this round. A couple years ago, I bought a "sporterized" Mauser that had the chamber reamed to take the '06 case. Since I was already loading 8x57 and 30-06, I had bullets and brass. There's data in the load manuals. Just needed dies, which were readily available. For 175-180 grain bullets, I was getting just a little more velocity than I could get with the other rounds. However, this barrel was pretty worn, wouldn't group well. I had been wanting to try one of Brownell's short-chambered Mauser barrels, so it's now a 6.5x55.

Now, I have read that this was a common conversion for surplus Mausers after the war, but I wonder how common it really was. Supposedly, US hunters could get Mausers, but neither ammo nor brass was available. But...bullets, '06 reamers with 8mm leads, and dies were?? It's also been called the "poor man's magnum", and it does have some case capacity over the 8x57. But if you search Gunbroker, it's unusual to find a rifle in 8mm-06 offered, whereas Mauser conversions in almost any other caliber are ubiquitous.

So, any thoughts or true facts or experience with 8mm-06? I have a couple rebarrel "opportunities", and I wonder if I shouldn't dust off the dies and try again.

**Unclenick** · January 8, 2018, 11:36 AM

No personal experience. I wondered right off if you need to cut a notch in the top of the receiver like the Columbian Mausers that were adapted to .30-06 had in order for a .30-06 length cartridge to be stripper clip fed. Or do you just seat these shorter than .30-06 or avoid stripper clips?

I think maybe this thread really belongs in the gunsmithing forum.

F. Guffey · January 8, 2018, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Now, I have read that this was a common conversion for surplus Mausers after the war, but I wonder how common it really was. Supposedly, US hunters could get Mausers, but neither ammo nor brass was available. But...bullets, '06 reamers with 8mm leads, and dies were??

I have 3 8MM06 rifles, why not? I have an 8MM06 chamber reamer and I have forming dies to go from 30/06 to 8MM06, I also have sizing dies for the 8MM06 cases. The 30/06 sizing die will work if the reloader uses an 8MM sizing ball/plug.

In the old days I made an effort to get away from corrosive primers. I never found a down side to going with the 8MM06 chamber.

DATA: I do not have a reloading manual that does not list loads for the 8MM06.

F. Guffey

Don Fischer · January 8, 2018, 11:53 AM

Other than just to have an 8mmx06, why would anyone want one? My understanding was that it was developed because guy's with 8x57's after the war had a real hard time finding ammo, enter the 8mmx06! But other than that, what does it have for bullet's that would make it better than a reg 30-06? Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a box of 8x57 anywhere. Lot of guy's sure seem to like it though!

jcj54 · January 8, 2018, 12:01 PM

Is longer than 8x57. Won't fit in mag without deep seating bullets....

F. Guffey · January 8, 2018, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Is longer than 8x57. Won't fit in mag without deep seating bullets....

And the 270 W case is .051" longer than the 30/06 case, I built a 270 W chambered Mauser. Ever round I loaded chambered from the magazine. And then there are those Mausers with long Magazines.

The difference in length between the 8MM57 case and the 30/06/8MM06 case is the difference between 2.494" and 2.240.

And I have said I have fired cases in one of my rifles with over .225" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber without experiencing case head separation; and the shoulder did not move.

F. Guffey

RC20 · January 8, 2018, 03:33 PM

So much for fire forming.

std7mag · January 8, 2018, 03:45 PM

Don,
It's not necessarily that the 8mm-06 was "better".
It's that it was cheaper to get your smith to ream it vs buying a new barrel, or a new rifle.

Hawg · January 8, 2018, 04:18 PM

Quote:

I don't recall ever seeing a box of 8x57 anywhere

I've bought it at Walmart.

F. Guffey · January 8, 2018, 04:59 PM

Quote:

So much for fire forming.

There are a few reloaders that are able to form first and then fire and then there are fire formers. I said it is possible to use 30/06 dies with an 8MM sizer plug. With that arrangement I fire and then eject a fired case.

Quote:

So much for fire forming.

If a reloader chambers an 8mm57 round in a 8mmm06 chamber and then pulls the trigger he will eject an 8mm06 case with a very short neck.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · January 8, 2018, 05:01 PM

And then there were those that chambered 308 W rounds in a 30/06 chamber, same thing, the 308 w case was ejected as a 30/06 cases with almost no neck.

F. Guffey

Scorch · January 8, 2018, 08:42 PM

When I first started smithing in the mid 1980s, we would see a few 8mm-06s now and then. It was called the poor man's magnum, but you really didn't gain much over the 8X57 other than brass availability, and even that is questionable because you can make 8X57 brass from 30-06 brass. Never saw a 8mm-06 in a new barrel until about 10 years ago, it was always the military barrel with the chamber opened up. Personal opinion is that the 8mm-06 was someone's idea to improve the 8X57 without reading the specs on the cartridge.

std7mag · January 8, 2018, 09:33 PM

Now, yeah, on the brass availability side.
Post WWII not so much. Hence the rechambering to 06 cases.

Now if for some unknown reason i couldn't find 8X57 cases, i'd just neck up 7X57 casings.
Like i neck down 7X57 casings to make 257 Roberts.

F. Guffey · January 9, 2018, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Now if for some unknown reason i couldn't find 8X57 cases, i'd just neck up 7X57 casings.
Like i neck down 7X57 casings to make 257 Roberts.

The 7mm57 is shorter from the shoulder/case body juncture to the case head by .097". The case length is shorter by .005". By the time the 7mm57 case is fired in the 8mm57 chamber the case will be .070" shorter and thin.

Reloaders spend a lot of time talking about loose necks and accuracy, Again, I have forming dies, I can form 8mm57 cases from 30/06 cases, a benefit? Tighter necks.

The 8/06 is better than the 8mm57, the 8mm06 is better than the 30/06.

F. Guffey

ligonierbill · January 9, 2018, 09:22 AM

"The 8/06 is better than the 8mm57, the 8mm06 is better than the 30/06."

Mr. Guffey: It appears there are just two of us shooting this round. Given that the 8x57, 30-06 and 8mm-06 are pretty close when properly loaded, what advantages do you believe the 8mm-06 has? I will be getting a new barrel on my '35 Brazilian, and I am seriously considering It.

Don Fischer · January 9, 2018, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by std7mag

Don,
It's not necessarily that the 8mm-06 was "better".
It's that it was cheaper to get your smith to ream it vs buying a new barrel, or a new rifle.

Ah. Seem's like that would work.

gw44 · January 21, 2018, 11:06 AM

F.Guffey has it right I have reloaded my friends 8-06 for years, it is no big deal I have never owned one but there are a lot of them around !!!

natman · January 21, 2018, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

Other than just to have an 8mmx06, why would anyone want one? My understanding was that it was developed because guy's with 8x57's after the war had a real hard time finding ammo, enter the 8mmx06! But other than that, what does it have for bullet's that would make it better than a reg 30-06? Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a box of 8x57 anywhere. Lot of guy's sure seem to like it though!

You hit the nail on the head there. Now if you have an 8x57 rifle Midway has 14 loads listed for it. But right after the war there were lots of cheap rifles but no 8x57 ammo or brass. So after a quick rechamber tp 8mm-06 the rifle required handloaded ammo, but at least the parent brass was easy to find.

Nowadays there's no reason to chamber a rifle for it. If you want a larger than 30-06 rifle you can go 338 Federal, 338-06 or 35 Whelen.

oldscot3 · January 21, 2018, 05:07 PM

I had one done wrong. The "smith" ran a 30-06 reamer in a surplus 8 x 57 barrel and marked the the barrel 30-06. It came from a well know source and I was much younger and more gullible so it didn't occur to me that I ought not to trust it.

Needless to say the first five rounds wouldn't hit a 4x8 sheet of plywood 30 yards away. I was mystified until I looked at the ejected brass. That barrel now serves as a heavy duty stake, it does a good job of keeping one corner of a deer blind steady.

I suppose I could have had it re-reamed correctly to 8mm06, but I really didn't want to make the investment.

January 8, 2018, 11:04 AM	#1
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	8mm-06 First, I have exactly one data point on this round. A couple years ago, I bought a "sporterized" Mauser that had the chamber reamed to take the '06 case. Since I was already loading 8x57 and 30-06, I had bullets and brass. There's data in the load manuals. Just needed dies, which were readily available. For 175-180 grain bullets, I was getting just a little more velocity than I could get with the other rounds. However, this barrel was pretty worn, wouldn't group well. I had been wanting to try one of Brownell's short-chambered Mauser barrels, so it's now a 6.5x55. Now, I have read that this was a common conversion for surplus Mausers after the war, but I wonder how common it really was. Supposedly, US hunters could get Mausers, but neither ammo nor brass was available. But...bullets, '06 reamers with 8mm leads, and dies were?? It's also been called the "poor man's magnum", and it does have some case capacity over the 8x57. But if you search Gunbroker, it's unusual to find a rifle in 8mm-06 offered, whereas Mauser conversions in almost any other caliber are ubiquitous. So, any thoughts or true facts or experience with 8mm-06? I have a couple rebarrel "opportunities", and I wonder if I shouldn't dust off the dies and try again.

January 8, 2018, 11:36 AM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,057	No personal experience. I wondered right off if you need to cut a notch in the top of the receiver like the Columbian Mausers that were adapted to .30-06 had in order for a .30-06 length cartridge to be stripper clip fed. Or do you just seat these shorter than .30-06 or avoid stripper clips? I think maybe this thread really belongs in the gunsmithing forum. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 8, 2018, 12:01 PM	#5
jcj54 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2011 Posts: 218	8mm-06 Is longer than 8x57. Won't fit in mag without deep seating bullets....

January 8, 2018, 03:33 PM	#7
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	So much for fire forming. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

January 8, 2018, 08:42 PM	#12
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	When I first started smithing in the mid 1980s, we would see a few 8mm-06s now and then. It was called the poor man's magnum, but you really didn't gain much over the 8X57 other than brass availability, and even that is questionable because you can make 8X57 brass from 30-06 brass. Never saw a 8mm-06 in a new barrel until about 10 years ago, it was always the military barrel with the chamber opened up. Personal opinion is that the 8mm-06 was someone's idea to improve the 8X57 without reading the specs on the cartridge. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 8, 2018, 11:53 AM	#4
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Other than just to have an 8mmx06, why would anyone want one? My understanding was that it was developed because guy's with 8x57's after the war had a real hard time finding ammo, enter the 8mmx06! But other than that, what does it have for bullet's that would make it better than a reg 30-06? Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a box of 8x57 anywhere. Lot of guy's sure seem to like it though!

January 8, 2018, 03:45 PM	#8
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Don, It's not necessarily that the 8mm-06 was "better". It's that it was cheaper to get your smith to ream it vs buying a new barrel, or a new rifle.

January 8, 2018, 05:01 PM	#11
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	And then there were those that chambered 308 W rounds in a 30/06 chamber, same thing, the 308 w case was ejected as a 30/06 cases with almost no neck. F. Guffey

January 8, 2018, 09:33 PM	#13
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Now, yeah, on the brass availability side. Post WWII not so much. Hence the rechambering to 06 cases. Now if for some unknown reason i couldn't find 8X57 cases, i'd just neck up 7X57 casings. Like i neck down 7X57 casings to make 257 Roberts.

January 9, 2018, 09:22 AM	#15
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	"The 8/06 is better than the 8mm57, the 8mm06 is better than the 30/06." Mr. Guffey: It appears there are just two of us shooting this round. Given that the 8x57, 30-06 and 8mm-06 are pretty close when properly loaded, what advantages do you believe the 8mm-06 has? I will be getting a new barrel on my '35 Brazilian, and I am seriously considering It.

January 21, 2018, 11:06 AM	#17
gw44 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 311	F.Guffey has it right I have reloaded my friends 8-06 for years, it is no big deal I have never owned one but there are a lot of them around !!!

January 21, 2018, 05:07 PM	#19
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	I had one done wrong. The "smith" ran a 30-06 reamer in a surplus 8 x 57 barrel and marked the the barrel 30-06. It came from a well know source and I was much younger and more gullible so it didn't occur to me that I ought not to trust it. Needless to say the first five rounds wouldn't hit a 4x8 sheet of plywood 30 yards away. I was mystified until I looked at the ejected brass. That barrel now serves as a heavy duty stake, it does a good job of keeping one corner of a deer blind steady. I suppose I could have had it re-reamed correctly to 8mm06, but I really didn't want to make the investment.

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