Need help choosing a 20" AR for FIL

[StukaJU87]

Wow, that's scary! Thanks for the heads up. I've never had any dealings with PSA. I've dealt with Midway before, never had any problems.

The .223 Wylde sounds like an interesting option.

Soooo many choices... how does anyone ever figure out what they want? I guess if I had the money, I'd buy one of each and then I'd know, right? Unfortunately, I can't afford to do that which really makes the decision process harder.

Although, based on how he will use it, I think it comes down more to cosmetics, either a grayish or a black barrel. Which one would be more "correct" in appearance?

[DubC-Hicks]

The phosphated/parkerized barrel is correct for milspec rifles.

[StukaJU87]

Would this also be a good option?
Upper
https://andersonmanufacturing.com/pr...omplete-upper/

Lower
https://andersonmanufacturing.com/pr...a2-butt-stock/

The barrel is 4150 chromoly material and it is not chrome lined. The PSA uppser is $299, why is the one from Anderson $530? Is it worth the extra money?

[rickyrick]

Some carry handle sights are unbelievably expensive. Not sure if that's the case here.

Most uppers don't come with sights, BCG, or charging handles.

100$ for BCG
20 for CH
150 for sights
Probably 100-150 dollar barrel
50 dollar reciever
Etc
Just a really rough estimate, but the 530$ is probably about right, if it's complete and a real military carry handle.

[DubC-Hicks]

An Anderson upper is nowhere near as nice as the PSA or Windham. Not that it's bad, but definitely NOT worth $530 for an unlined chromoly barrel.

Anderson is known for budget parts. That upper definitely is budget specs, but way more than budget price. Their receiver finish leaves a bit to be desired too, I've used a few of their stripped uppers and lowers. It's thin and uneven, somewhat rougher than others.

[2ndtimer]

Another option is a Stag Model 4. Priced below the PSA and a quality piece.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...A4+15+A2+20+HB

I just ordered a Model 4 complete rifle kit from Stag. (on sale for $464.99 and will pick up an Anderson stripped lower from Cabela's for $49.99 and build my first "home built" AR.) This would be the cheapest way to go, (and I have a son training to be a machinist and one of his co-workers to assist in the project who have each built at least one AR already)
This way I can put together a 20" barrel rifle with A2 sights and carry handle for just over $500. A deal I couldn't pass up. Thanks for making me look!

[DubC-Hicks]

I have no problem with any of Stag's other rifles, but the lack of chrome lining on the Model 4 makes no sense to me. The 4140 steel and 1/9 twist are tolerable, but I like the chrome. Or at least nitride.

I will say the one Model 4 I shot was very accurate, and no reliability problems.

[mellow_c]

Looks to me (still) that the CHF rifle kit from PSA would be your best option! Best in price, best in quality, best all around. Just order one of their lower receivers and their milspec cary handle and you'll have everything you need as long as your able to build it. Or as said before, you could buy the complete upper and lower from them for a little more money. In the end, I suspect that rifle would be the best quality for your money.

Good luck!

[2ndtimer]

Mellow, not sure about the quality, I have been happy with my Stag Model 6 Varminter, and the Stag kit is $135 cheaper and includes the carry handle/rear sight. For a guy on a budget, seems like a high price to pay for a chrome lined barrel, which may well be less accurate.

[rickyrick]

The PSA may be the best option if in stock. The barrel is better than milspec. I've got a 16" PSA rifle kit with the chf barrel.

My wife's budget AR that I threw together has an Anderson un-lined barrel is the most accurate 5.56 rifle so far. The rest of the upper is AeroPrecision.

Speaking of which, AeroPrecision has some great Stuff.
I like this upper
https://aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-55...upper-fsb.html

Matched with this M16 clone lower

https://aeroprecisionusa.com/m16a4-complete-lower.html

You'd have a great replica

[StukaJU87]

Thanks for the replies and different options. My head is still spinning.

Based on price alone, as price is my biggest obsticle, I'm considering either the complete freedom upper or the complete upper with the CHF barrel and complete A2 lower or the CHF premium rifle kit and a stripped lower. Should put it somewhere around $500-$700 before tax and transfer. I would just need to find a carry handle. How much do they typically run?

Is there anything else I should consider?

Are there any better options for this price range?

What am I giving up at this price range?

[rickyrick]

A good carry handle sight can be expensive.

If you find one for $20 it is a cheap fake.
Not saying a $20 dollar sight won't work, but I haven't found one that is any good.

I don't get the high cost of carry handle sights. I finally decided that good options can be had without the carry handle sight.

Prices have come down, but sights, BCGs, and sometimes hand guards can derail a rifle's budget really fast.

[rickyrick]

I lied, I do have a low cost sight that does work.
It is a copy of a bobbed carry handle sight; it worked fairly well.

[BWM]

cheaper than dirt has Bushmasters from 553.69 to 740.09 you can look them up there page 1 to 3 good luck

[StukaJU87]

Thanks BMW, however, I did no see any available in the configuration I am looking for.

If I am wrong, could you please post a link?

While already overwhelmed by trying to choose between a platform I know nothing about, I also don't wish to leave a stone unturned. As stated previously, this will be a gift for a Vietnam veteran and as such, I want to choose the"best" option in my budget. I know a budget of under $800 closes a lot of doors. I really wish I could honor him by being able to afford the "real thing" but it is what it is.

[rickyrick]

You should be able to get something close to what a vet may remember with $800.
PSA
AeroPrecision
BCM
Del-ton
And so on.

A Vietnam era replica will be harder with the fixed carry handle upper, but he may not mind a flat-top upper with a carry handle added.
There's some other minor differences, but really only for purists. Probably better to get a more modern version.

[StukaJU87]

He had mentioned he didnt like the idea of a "bolt on" carry handle because he didn't trust that it wouldn't "move" but since his eyes have gotten older, he's come around to the benefit of being able to easily add optics. Same goes for forward assist. He doesn't like idea or look of one but has accepted they are there unless he builds one from scratch. I'd build him one but I don't know how and I'd like him to have a warranty option, which he won't get if he or I were to build one. That narrows the field down quite a bit. Now I just need to decide on one. I've narrowed it down to a couple from PSA but I want to make sure I've considered all options and manufacturers. I don't want to buy something just to buy something.

[BWM]

you might call Bushmaster and have them put one together.Also you might call Windham because they was the one that had Bushmaster to start with tell them why and tell them the money you want to spend. Good luck

[themalicious0ne]

If you dont want to build and he is not fond of the removable carry handle, you can always go with the DPMS A2 Classic or Bushmaster. You will save if you "build"/assemble, but I understand your warranty concerns.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...2F223+20+A2+HB

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...5.56NATO+20+A2

If the carry handle isn't something you can afford, I am sure your FIL would be quick to get one as he wouldn't have sights to shoot it. We all love a complete rifle, but has anyone here ever gotten a rifle as a gift and been upset that your gun didnt come with sights? Most bolt actions dont, now days, and many AR's dont either as they leave it up to the person purchasing to decide. Who knows, if his eyes are bad maybe he would just want to put a scope on it and spending $100 for a carry handle may not be worth the investment. If it were me, I wouldnt purchase the carry handle. Personally, I find it good to buy these things for their next birthday or Christmas. I built my dad an AR and he bought BUIS right away, next gift giving time came a scope, then sling, then light. The gift that keeps on giving.

Anyways, the rifle linked does not have a detachable carry handle. It is fixed to the receiver.

And as far as chrome lined or not, as many people have posted, their non chrome lined barrels are very accurate. This is due to the chroming process having a tendency to be difficulty applied evenly. That is why you RARELY see a match grade barrel with chrome lining. Most times chrome lining a barrel can hurt its accuracy. However it will improve its longevity and corrosion resistant capabilities.

Edit: You can always replace a barrel too. It isn't too costly. And unless he is in the swamps or never cleans the barrel, non chrome lined will be fine. In terms of longevity, if he shoots out the barrel, paying a few hundred dollars for a new barrel and someone to do it will be nothing compared to the thousands of dollars he has spent in ammo run through it. Also, if he would consider adding a scope to it, it would be far cheaper to add an optic to one with a rail and removable carry handle than it would be to purchase an optic that would attach to the carry handle. There aren't too many options in that regard and boy are some of the quality ones expensive. Good Luck.

[StukaJU87]

I agree about getting the flattop for optics. Originally, I looked at the non-detachable carry handles for originality but quickly started looking at detachable models for ease of adding optics. Now I have the question of "what about the front sight post?" What size rings are needed to see over the front post? Is a riser needed? Did I mention I know nothing about ARs?

[mellow_c]

I still think your on the right track with the PSA CHF kit.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/20-ha...rifle-kit.html

This is the Cary handle from PSA that I would recommend.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/palme...ry-handle.html

And this one too.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/blemi...-assembly.html

They are exactly the same, except the 2nd one would have a blemish of some sort and are therefore cheaper. However, neither one of them are in stock right now, but they will be again eventually. I recall them costing around $75ish- maybe around 90?. $75 or so for the blemished, and more for the "clean" ones. I dont know for sure though... but that's a good deal for one. Read the description on them to see how they are better than the $25 made in china ones. It's just MUCH better materials and craftsmanship.

You can get a comparable one from these guys, but it's $110.

https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-1...le%20ar-15.htm

And again, if you read the description, you'll see they are the same thing... only PSA charges quite a bit less for theirs.


I just wanted to add, that I've shot through one of the 14.7" CHF barrels with a pinned and welded flash hider from PSA, made by FN... I was shooting 5 shot groups with cheap factory reloaded brass 55gr fmj ammo. With iron sights (Same PSA carry handle in the links above) and the only extra advantage I had was the rifle had the PSA enhanced trigger group, which is like $30 and is just a basic trigger, but is first polished and then nickle plated so it's a little cleaner than just a stock mil spec trigger... and I was CONSISTENTLY shooting 2" groups at 100 yards... 5 shot, 2 inch groups... and I remember specifically that one of them was a vertical string of 5 shots all in a line that measured just over 2 inches, so that tells me that if I had been able to be more consistent with my aim in regards to elevation, I probably could have had them all under an inch and a half... So yeah... 5 shots under 2" at 100 yards with cheap factory reloaded ammo and iron sights out of a mid length carbine and pretty much a mil spec trigger.... I think that's pretty decent accuracy!!! I'm sure the rifle was capable of shooting tighter groups than I was... Throw in an even better trigger, a scope, and some better ammo and you'd have your self some really great groups out of that barrel.

I'd expect it would be even easier to do better with the long 20" barrel and rifle length sight picture.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I'd call those CHF barrels to be 1 inch shooters at 100 yards based on my limited experience... Add to that their durability, quality, and toughness... and for the price, I don't think you could go wrong!

Dare I say...? PSA all the way!

[mellow_c]

As far as mounting a scope... there are a ton of "single unit" AR-15 scope mounts as well as separate individual rings, and they are all generally the same "Standard height" if designed specifically for AR use... which I would recommend. At a lower magnification setting you might see the front sight through the scope, but it should not be in the way of the cross hairs, and then at a higher setting I'm guessing you probably wont even see the front sight. I dont know for sure though because I've never mounted a typical magnified scope to an AR with a fixed front sight, but I know people do it, and it's not a problem.

I'd start with the iron sights, but if down the road your Father in law decides he wants to mount a scope then you can go from there.

[themalicious0ne]

I would not worry about the front sight in regards to a scope. Most scope mounts will work fine. Most mount manufacturers even make mounts specifically for AR's. Mostly marketing word use, but anyways you would have to have your scope mounted extremely low for the post to interfere with the crosshair. It may be in view on low magnification but not a hinderance. I think, if i remember correctly, I cant even see the front sight past 3x or so. One of my rifles with the fixed front sight has a variable zoom scope with a bdc and i believe i can still see the 600 yard hash mark with the further distance harshmarks obscured at 1x magnification.

If he wants to scope it, he will be fine. If his main objective is to have a long range precision AR with utilizing a scope primarily, then he wouldnt really want the traditional styled A2 at all. He could have a completely different beast. But if the A2 is what he likes, he should have no problem tailoring it to whatever he wishes it to be. Thus my recommendation to get as close to what he wants, but with the ability to have outside options if he chooses and let him do what he wishes. Guns are personal, my likes are not the same as yours and not many are set up the exact same.

I think your focus should be on whether he really wants a fixed carry handle or a flat top, then do you want to assemble to save some money or buy complete for the warranty and resale aspect. Those should really be your only two concerns. There are quite litterally hundreds to thousands of things you could look at or consider. As a gift, I can only imagine he will be overjoyed with whatever. Dont focus too much on this or that, they are fairly minor. But you have gotten great advice throughout this thread and all the options reccomended and that you are considering are good ones. If you were to mention an option that was sub par, I can promise you would have heard it from us. First narrow down those main things i mentioned, then we can get into more details.

[2ndtimer]

Completed my Anderson stripped lower/Stag Model 4 kit build. Total cost $520. Very nice A2 build. Functions fine, too hot for extended shooting/accuracy testing. Maybe later this week in the morning before it heats up. Couldn't get photo to link.

[mellow_c]

PSA Cary Handel back in stock.

A heck of a deal for $70.00

These are not blemished ones either.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/palme...=11%3a00+Email