Casting with only range lead

[BJung]

Can I shoot with cast 38 special powder coated bullets using lead that is mostly from jacketed bullets? I plan to shoot them somewhere between 750-800fps, some being 148gr WC and the others 150gr SWC pushed with Bullseye or N310. I think I can avoid the leading with the powder coating, yes?

[Mike / Tx]

I use an alloy that runs around a 9-10 bhn and it does fine within that range plain or PC'ed. Long as you size them right you should do fine.

[FrankenMauser]

Should be fine.

[Unclenick]

The alloy in jacketed bullets varies. IIRC, Sierra uses three different ones depending on the purpose of the bullet, mainly to control hardness to help control expansion. You may well find you would like to add a bit of tin to it. Most lead-free plumbing solders are mostly tin, now, so it's an easily acquired source if you don't want a lot. About 5% by weight is good, but even 2% can help with mold fill. Just watch out not to pick a solder that has zinc in it, as that can destroy the ability of an allow to fill the mold. The final hardness of your alloy won't be critical for the kind of shooting you want to do.

This thread really belongs in the bullet casting forum. I will move it for you.

[BJung]

I need your wisdom guys. I water dropped my bullets and could hear the sizzle sound as the bullet hit the water. I don't want to lose the hardness and read that you'd lose the hardness if it's PC baked. A person on youtube said this can be avoided with a lower temperature. And, another youtube talked about placing the bullets in a tray of melted wax mixture, allowing it to solidify, and them resizing the bullets. I think I won't lose the hardness this way. Thanks

[Mike / Tx]

There are a LOT of folks who water drop the PC bullets straight out of their oven. Me I haven't been overly concerned with it air cool, size and shoot them.

I've run some up into the 1600fps range out of my magnum revolvers and they did just fine. That and some I loaded for.my .308 that were up just shy of 2K fps.

For what you're doing I wouldnt sweat the quenching or worry about loosing anything with coating.

[zxcvbob]

You don't even need powder coating. Regular bullet lube or Alox will be enough. Straight range lead (my indoor range is mostly .22's and target wadcutters, and a few jacketed that people sneak in) makes great subsonic bullets.

Like Uncle said, you might want to add just a little tin, but that's for mold fillout not hardness. See how the lead casts without if first.

[big al hunter]

I use range scrap with powder coating on 44 mag loads. No leading, no water drop, max charges for lead bullet data in the Lyman cast bullet manual. If you powder coat and keep to the velocity you stated, you will have no problems regardless of hardness of the lead.

[Grey_Lion]

I'm using Hodgdon HP38 on my powder coated lead with good results. Haven't used bullseye in several years.

[gwpercle]

Originally Posted by burbank_jung

I need your wisdom guys. I water dropped my bullets and could hear the sizzle sound as the bullet hit the water. I don't want to lose the hardness and read that you'd lose the hardness if it's PC baked. A person on youtube said this can be avoided with a lower temperature. And, another youtube talked about placing the bullets in a tray of melted wax mixture, allowing it to solidify, and them resizing the bullets. I think I won't lose the hardness this way. Thanks

When hot bullets are suddenly cooled (quenched) they harden .

When hardened bullets are worked , as in sizing , they surface soften .

If you want hard bullets , cast them , air cool , size - you can now heat treat and quench or powder coat , bake and quench ...this will result in hardened bullets . Like sizing or baking in an oven and slow cooling !

Any working (sizing) of a hardened (water dropped) cast lead bullet or any heating of a hardened (water dropped ) lead bullet and slow cooling ....will result in the bullet going back to it's original hardness.

Most casters waste their time when casting and water dropping bullets to harden them. Usually the do something to negate the effects .
My advice forget water dropping ...cast , air cool and size ...coat and if it makes you feel better...then dump the oven baked hot coated bullets into water .
But honestly...coated bullets do a great job of protecting the bore from leading and aren't really needed .
Gary

[P Flados]

I go through lots of range lead. Most range lead will include jacketed bullets, plated bullets and cast bullets. For me, hardness runs 8 - 10 bhn or so.

For low power loads, I tumble lube with a made at home mix (BLL). Since a required BLL ingredient is hard to find, I would recommend 45-45-10 from White Label Lube. Tumble lube is a lot easier than PC and works fine for 38 special.

For mid range to full power loads I use PC. This has included 327 magnum, 9mm, 357 magnum, 357 maximum, 7 TCU, 30 Herrett, 44 magnum.

I water drop out of the mold for convenience, not hardness. I do not worry over the 15 minutes at 390 deg F that gives my HF red a good cure.

Why are you worried about hardness? Unless you are talking about very special applications, any bullets made from range scrap (air cooled, water drop, or water drop + PC) should work fine for all the more common uses of cast bullets. For avoiding leading in a 38, bullet fit is much more important than hardness. Undersized bullets are the biggest cause of leading in revolver loads.

[BJung]

Ok, I think I'm set guys. Thanks.

[hdbiker]

I cast & shoot nothing but range berm lead in my .38's. Ill mix in wheel weights if I have some and always add a foot of 95/5 solder to a 10 pound smelt.I load 3.5 grains of Bullseye with a 158 grain, or so SWC. around 750 FPS with minimal leading. hdbiker

[BJung]

How do you lube your bullets hdbiker? Do you PC?

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

I'm old school taught.
When I worked in a indoor pistol range part time . The owner of said I could have the range lead from the catch traps >all I wanted. When smelting. One thing I never had to do was tin blending of the lead for a better BHN. Although such lead did call for fluxing quite often and a burn off of un-burnt powders upon every filling of the pot.
As for leading issues with plain bullet use.. Bullet velocity's kept well below 1000 in conjunction with quick burning propellants and the application of Alox bullet lube and or a gas check insures no lead streaking no matter the pistols bullet velocity.

The reason I never got into Powder coatings. I didn't want the expense of. And another primary reason. The ease of what I do to my lead bullets can be accomplished in the deer stand_ in the field_ or at a Bench Rest. No oven's_ no spray gun's_ no compressor. Just arm-strong technology >get it lubed_checked_ & seated Big fellows.

[USSR]

I'm with Sure_Shot_Mc_Gee. Old school and proud of it.

Don

[big al hunter]

. The reason I never got into Powder coatings. I didn't want the expense of. And another primary reason. The ease of what I do to my lead bullets can be accomplished in the deer stand_ in the field_ or at a Bench Rest. No oven's_ no spray gun's_ no compressor. Just arm-strong technology >get it lubed_checked_ & seated Big fellows.

You don't need all that to powder coat bullets. I shake my bullets in an old plastic cottage cheese tub with the powder. It coats evenly, and none of the powder is blowing into the air around me.

My wife wanted to upgrade the toaster oven, so I took the old one to the garage.

Powder coating cost me the price of powder and a silicone baking mat. Powder is about $13/lb, and a pound goes a long way when you use a few grains per bullet.

No greasy, oily, waxy lubes on my bullets or my hands. And I can push them to 1400 fps without leading, using range scrap.

[USSR]

No greasy, oily, waxy lubes on my bullets or my hands.

Makes my hands so, so soft. And, my bullets don't look like lipstick.

Don

[Beagle333]

I'm old and new school. I do powdercoat sometimes, but I use a lot of lube too (5 Stars, 4 LAM IIs, and 5 Lymans). Also sometimes I just use Ben's Liquid Lube (which works great!!). Fortunately I stocked up on that Johnson's floor wax before it was discontinued. It's probably my favorite and fastest way to lube a bullet. I don't know how fast it'll handle, but I usually shoot mostly cowboy (45 Colt and .44-40) and it is perfect for that. Also with range lead or stick on wheel weights. Range lead is the most popular I see for sale online.

[zxcvbob]

Johnson's floor wax is gone??

[dahermit]

The thing that I have noticed about powder coating vs. grease/other (NRA Alox, etc.) lubes is that when a person starts to powder coat their bullets, they seem never to go back to the other lubes.

In my case, I built an heated enclosure to fire from to extend my shooting season (Michigan), and noticed that one of the advantages of shooting powder coated over grease-lubed bullets is the lack of smoke, not to mention the sludge that builds up in a gun when using grease-lubed bullets.

In regard to using range scrap, for my shooting (almost all low-velocity, soft lead), there has been no trace of leading when using powder coating despite thousands of rounds (96 rounds, seven days a week during shooting season) between cleaning.

[USSR]

Actually, I would be willing to bet most of the younger guys PCing their bullets started with that method and never actually used a quality lubrisizer such as made by Lyman and RCBS. My favorite lube is White Label Lube's BAC. I use it for everything from 800fps to 1800fps and it does a great job. See no reason to change.

Don

[dahermit]

Originally Posted by USSR

Actually, I would be willing to bet most of the younger guys PCing their bullets started with that method and never actually used a quality lubrisizer such as made by Lyman and RCBS. My favorite lube is White Label Lube's BAC. I use it for everything from 800fps to 1800fps and it does a great job. See no reason to change.

Don

Yes, I am one of those "younger" guys...but I have had four lubrisizers over my lifetime. I have been casting since the middle sixties, am 76 years old. See my post #21.

Also, on the Cast Boolit site there seems to be many posters who started with a lube sizer, switch to powder coating and now do not want to go back.

Maybe someone should start a poll.

[USSR]

dahermit,

Irregardless, I am happy with the tried and true method of sizing and lubing my bullets, and have intention of changing. Best wishes.

Don