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Old March 16, 2020, 07:23 PM   #1
Bartri
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Remington 1858 dimensions

Hello there!

I'm looking for Remington 1858 revolver parts dimensions; maybe some blueprints or drawings/patent files. I need it for 3D modelling for school project.
I wish You Guys could help me.
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Old March 16, 2020, 11:15 PM   #2
Deltadart
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Remington New Model Army

Hi
You might try these guys, The Remington Society of America. 1858 Remington is actually wrong, although many call it that. The proper name is the Remington New Model Army. It was first patented in 1858, but changed over the next few years. More like the 1863 Remington.
http://www.remingtonsociety.org/foru...ic.php?t=23152
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Old March 17, 2020, 07:57 PM   #3
Tidewater_Kid
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You might be able to get this to scale out. It's a scale drawing.

https://abel-guns.com/sites/default/...vation-1_0.jpg

TK
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Old March 17, 2020, 09:17 PM   #4
arcticap
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Wouldn't part dimensions be best examined in person?
Perhaps try to find a gun to take apart and examine.
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Old March 18, 2020, 11:13 AM   #5
AKexpat
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Are you creating a "ghost" gun with a 3-D printer?

Jim
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Old March 18, 2020, 11:32 AM   #6
maillemaker
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You can probably find it on grabcad, or thingyverse, etc.
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Old March 19, 2020, 11:01 PM   #7
Driftwood Johnson
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Howdy

Quote:
You might be able to get this to scale out. It's a scale drawing.
That is not a scale drawing. It is simply a cutaway view. No guarantee that everything is to scale. By the way, that drawing uses 1st angle orthographic projection, which is the way the Europeans do their drawings. Here in the US we have always used 3rd angle orthographic projection. Easy to identify on that drawing, but if you try to make a part assuming 3rd angle projection, and the drawing is done in 1st angle projection, the part will come out all wrong. Look up the difference.

I have seen this question many times over the years.

Patent drawings do not include dimensions. Patent drawings simply show the concept of how a patented idea works, they do not include dimensions, and patent drawings are often not to scale anyway.

I spent a long time as a mechanical designer, drawing dimensioned part drawings. In the lower right corner of the drawing, where the legend is, there was always a note that said Do Not Scale Drawing. That meant that in the days before CAD, when drawings were done with pencil and paper using straight edges and various curve tracers, the only thing to be trusted on the drawing was the actual dimensions. In other words, the drawing might look to scale, but it probably wasn't.

This is a Patent drawing for the Winchester Model 1866 rifle. Notice there are no dimensions, it only shows the concept of how the gun works.






This is a dimensioned drawing for the receiver of a M1 Garand rifle. Lots and lots of dimensions. This was pretty easy to find on the net, just googling 'gun dimensioned drawings.'






In the manufacturing environment in 1858 when the Remington Army revolver was manufactured, the design process would go something like this: The gun's designer would come up with the concept for how the gun would work. He would then assign draftsmen to come up with dimensioned drawings according to his concept. Then machinists would make prototype parts using the dimensioned drawings, to see how the parts worked when assembled. Inevitably there would have to be revisions to the part drawings because everything would not quite work together as the designer had envisioned it. So the drawings would be marked up with new dimensions and new prototype parts would be made. When everything was just right, the drawings would be finalized and stored AND JEALOUSLY GUARDED AS COMPANY INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. No company in their right mind would allow their drawings to be seen by anyone outside the company.

This is the way everything in the world was manufactured, pretty much through WWII, before the modern era of Computer Aided Design (CAD) and Computer Numeric Control (CNC).*

What happened back around 1959 or so when Aldo Uberti started making replicas of Civil War era revolvers was he got hold of actual guns from the era, took them apart, and measured everything. This is called reverse engineering. The same process was gone through, making drawings, making test parts, revising everything until everything fit and worked properly. And you can bet Uberti and Pietta and all the other replica makers guard their drawings just as jealously as the old timers did. The guns made by Uberti et al do not match the originals down to the last detail. Some dimensions have been changed slightly, for various manufacturing reasons. Although all major firearms manufacturers use CAD and CNC today, back in 1959 the technology did not exist yet.

In the modern era, with 3D CAD, and CNC machining, the process has been shortcutted slightly. Less paper is produced. But I have been part of the design team on plenty of stuff to tell you that everything seldom fits properly the first time, even with all the modern tools. You don't find out if everything really works as designed until you have real parts in hand. Then you usually find errors that were not foreseen, and it's back to the CAD station to tweak things.

Any drawings you come upon on the net are probably the result of reverse engineering. There is a terrific series of books by a guy named Jerry Kuhnhausen. They are chock full of dimensioned drawings for every part you can imagine. Colts, Smith and Wessons, and many more. Unfortunately, he has not done a book on Remington revolvers.

http://www.gunbooks.com/index.html

So, unless you want to take apart a modern replica, and reverse engineer it, I don't think you are going to find any measured drawings for it.

Or, for your 3D modelling project for school, start small. Get hold of a reproduction, take it apart, measure everything, and model one major part in 3D, for instance the cylinder or the frame. Then you can send the file to the machine shop, or the 3D printer, and make one part.

*There were a few geniuses like John Moses Browning who conceived of everything in his head, made a few sketches, and machined up the prototype parts himself. He would build a Patent Model to prove his concept worked. This was the basis for the hundreds of firearms patents he obtained. However Browning's Patent Model was not ready for production. After he sold the patent rights to the manufacturers, their team of designers would go over everything with a fine tooth comb and modify the drawings and the parts to make them ready for mass production. Browning usually took part in these exercises. When his relationship with Winchester ended and manufacture of his designs moved to Belgium, he spent a great deal of time with the designers and on the factory floor working out the bugs.

Last edited by Driftwood Johnson; March 22, 2020 at 10:28 AM.
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