The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 5, 2018, 10:27 PM   #1
Prof Young
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2007
Location: Illinois - down state
Posts: 2,399
Speaking of idiot behavior at the range . . .

So in conversation with my gun range owner I learn that he is restricting AR 15 use to the first three lanes. The reason, he has caught AR 15 shooters intentionally trying to shoot down the target hangers and damage the cables. Caught one kid intentionally trying to shoot above the bullet traps to damage the wall. He'll know that the first three lanes are all in good shape and can catch those who do the damage more easily. This kind of behavior strikes me as more than just idiotic. It's arrogant and self righteous. "Too bad for you if I damage your range. I paid for my time so I can do what I want." WRONG!!!

Thoughts and comments invited.

Life is good.
Prof Young
Prof Young is offline  
Old June 5, 2018, 10:41 PM   #2
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 4,322
A lifetime ban and payment for damages might be a more appropriate action.
__________________

Cave illos in guns et backhoes
TXAZ is offline  
Old June 5, 2018, 10:48 PM   #3
FrankenMauser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: In the valley above the plain
Posts: 13,401
Depending upon the situation and particular offense, I'd be collecting fines for damage (and banning the person[s]) or calling the police to report vandalism -- committed while the person was in possession of a firearm, which may be a potential and nasty enhancement in some places.
__________________
Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.
FrankenMauser is offline  
Old June 5, 2018, 11:35 PM   #4
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,273
We have security cameras on us just about everywhere else.
I understand the political sensitivity..but...

There are rare accidents,suicides,etc .And it would take the "your word against mine"out of reportable safety issues.

I'm not a lawyer or legal expert. I'm thinking (wondering if) the firearm might elevate a crime such as vandalism or criminal mischief to a higher level.
Example,I would expect throwing a rock through a window is different than shooting out windows. Same broken window.
HiBC is offline  
Old June 5, 2018, 11:39 PM   #5
DaleA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 5,289
Very disheartening.

It's on the same order as other stuff that's been reported here numerous times...outdoor ranges where people leave trash and shoot up the target holders...just people littering ANY WHERE and not being respectful.

I have to keep reminding myself there are more good people than bad folk out there.

Last edited by DaleA; June 6, 2018 at 12:18 AM.
DaleA is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 01:25 AM   #6
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
The degree of idiocy displayed by some purported members of the species homo sapiens is mind-boggling. Case in point:

I shoot at an indoor range. The walls between the lanes are solid (as in opaque, not as in bullet proof). Between the side walls for each lane as a simply plywood bench top, set (at a guess) somewhere between 42" to 48" from the floor. Not high tech, but it works.

You know those plastic, stackable lawn chairs? The cheap, wobbly ones you can't lean back in because the legs collapse? The range has a few of those in the corridor outside the back-of-lane area, for people who want to wait outside where it's a little quieter while someone else shoots. I was in a lane near one end of the range one day. I was done, and all the brooms for sweeping up brass had magically migrated to the far end, so I wandered down that way to grab a broom. As I walked past the booths, I saw a child -- a boy who was maybe 8 years old, maximum -- standing on one of those wobbly plastic lawn chairs while shooting! An adult male (presumably the father) was behind the kid, but not steadying him or even near enough to grab him if he started to fall.

I'm a certified range officer, but I don't work at that range. Even so, that looked too dangerous to wait even the length of time it would have taken for me to get the safety officer. I just told the adult to get the kid off the chair because it wasn't safe. His excuse was that the kid wasn't tall enough to see over the bench.

I just told him to discuss that with the owner, and maybe they'd let him use one of the two lanes with lower bench surfaces, but it wasn't safe for anyone to shoot when they aren't standing on a solid, secure surface. Then I chased down the owner and ratted them out. I think the father (?) got a good talking to when they checked out.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 07:03 AM   #7
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
I used to shoot on a range where the owner locked the plate rack in the down position. It was free to use; but you had to go get the key so he’d know who was responsible for any damage.

Went to go use it one day and the plates were locked in the up position and all bent from being shot with 7.62x39. Ignorance is disheartening enough but outright malevolent stupidity really bugs me.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 07:17 AM   #8
ATN082268
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2013
Posts: 975
I overwhelmingly like to shoot at my outdoor range. More room, not as noisy and, in my case, cheaper. The outdoor range takes longer to get to but I think that it is a small price to pay.
ATN082268 is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 07:25 AM   #9
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
So what you are trying to say I think is that bad behavior at ranges began with the popularization of the AR15?

Some of us have been around longer than that. Some of the things I seem to recall over the years...

- The guy that took shotgun slugs to a the wooden frame of a target holder
- The revolver guy that opened up with one in each hand like he was Josey Wales... while people were down range adjusting targets
- The "sniper" guy who gave himself scope eye not once, not twice but three times. Truthfully I don't know how he could see from all the blood.
- The TEC-9 guy who thought it was absolutely hilarious to try to spray every target down range while firing from the hip (this one took place on an open public free range in the National Forest and resulted in a mass exodus and calls to the Ranger Station)

Those are just some highlights. I am sure if I sat around and thought about it for a while I could come up with more.
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
MTT TL is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 08:25 AM   #10
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
Yes, gun range idiots have always been there. 40-50 years ago they were an endangered species; today not so much. Privately owned weapons ranges on military bases attract idiots too. Several years ago a very nice recreational firing range was established at a base near here. Within a few years the range was totally trashed.

Several years ago someone in a group of people using my range killed a neighbors cow: No one saw anything. i paid for the cow. The range was immediately locked, posted and placed off limits to everyone.
thallub is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 08:34 AM   #11
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 4,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by thallub View Post
Yes, ... ..... idiots have always been .here.
(Fixed it for ya.)

It's not just gun related. It seems that most of a generation was born without common sense. I quit driving downtown and take the train to avoid "geniuses" who don't do well in rush hour traffic.
__________________

Cave illos in guns et backhoes
TXAZ is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 09:00 AM   #12
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,486
My old club range had member(s) who would rather shoot at target stands than targets. The new range has fewer permanent stands and those more cheaply made. Match targets and props are kept locked up except on match days. Thanks, guys.

I do not consider a rifle rated bullet trap to be an improvement to an indoor range, although the proprietor certainly makes money off of it.

Anecdote: I watched a guy hunkered down over the counter with a rifle pegging away at maybe 25 yards. Suddenly he noticed a target still hanging at 10 yards on the next lane. He swivels around and opens up on it, with brick dust spraying off the wall. Unfortunately, the RO was overseeing somebody else and did not notice.
Jim Watson is online now  
Old June 6, 2018, 03:04 PM   #13
DaleA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2002
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 5,289
The lowest common denominator folk...that's why we can't have anything nice.

It's not humorous so much as heart breaking.
DaleA is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 07:14 PM   #14
Don Dayacetah
Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2018
Posts: 59
A lot of the good folks eventually get their own range set up, which leaves the
public ranges with a higher proportion of the chowder-heads.
Don Dayacetah is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 07:54 PM   #15
KEYBEAR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 11, 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,059
After A good 15 Years using a state range 12 miles from my home I built my own . Got a good and big back stop cost me 200 bucks built three benches a 50 100 and 200 no idea what that cost me , I put up four good steel plates 4-8-10 inch saved a bunch on targets . Thinking how much money I would save not driving 24 miles three or four times a week I was happy . But it was not to be now I shoot every day and three times as much .
KEYBEAR is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 08:36 PM   #16
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
Kind of a sign of the times. Lack of respect for people and property is rampant. And yes, if I were to catch them the police would be involved. But I'm kind of a hard-nosed bastard. If it's mine and you mess it up, I am going to get a piece of you.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old June 6, 2018, 09:11 PM   #17
Targa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2014
Posts: 2,083
Quote:
Lack of respect for people and property is rampant
Exactly right Scorch. Sadly enough, absolutely nothing surprises me anymore.
Targa is offline  
Old June 7, 2018, 12:34 PM   #18
Prof Young
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2007
Location: Illinois - down state
Posts: 2,399
Yes and . . .

Didn't mean to suggest that it's just the AR owners who are doing stupid stuff. Have a nice AR15 in my own collection. And yeah the owners fine and banish people who are caught doing stupid stuff. From day one at that range there been a ding in the edge of the first booth from someone who had and AD or some such. Craziness . . .

Life is good.
Prof Young
Prof Young is offline  
Old June 7, 2018, 04:30 PM   #19
Erno86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2012
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 1,738
Some shooters at the private outdoor range that I belong too...have a hankering to take uninvited pot shots a my steel silhouette target, set at 100 yards on occasion.
__________________
That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

--- George Orwell
Erno86 is offline  
Old June 8, 2018, 09:21 AM   #20
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
This isn't really a recent trend/sign of the present times...

I used to be an avid hunter years ago.
(oddly, the last time I went hunting happened to be the same day John Lennon got shot - - which had zip to do with my not hunting anymore since I was never a fan of his or his group)(I only mention it to set the time frame.

I was a suburbanite & the only hunting places available were miles and miles away - at least an hour and a half each way.
These were public lands.

Every single last one of them was shot to pieces. Signs, picnic tables, wooden benches, buildings - you name it - riddled with shotgun blasts.

Had to be in the mid 1970's when I was there. A good 40/45 years ago.
Even before that, a couple decades at least, all the outdoor magazines had letters and articles about - slob hunters.
Hal is offline  
Old June 8, 2018, 01:14 PM   #21
Glenn E. Meyer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 20,064
At a local range, some idiot shot at a rock or something cross target with a rifle. The round came back and hit someone seriously. He tried to flee but was stopped.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old June 8, 2018, 02:22 PM   #22
Chainsaw.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2015
Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain.
Posts: 1,774
Just a couple months ago I was at the rifle range, only one other guy there out of 18 benches, I was on #16, he was on #7. He shooting a 308, me a 6.5. We had both purchased the same target from the range and placed them on the corresponding spots for our bench numbers. He was banging away with his 308 bolt gun with 16 power scope at 100 yards, his pattern looked like buck shot. I took my rifle of the case, built my rest, organized all my gear while he banged away. I sat down, shot one 5 shot group then got up to go B.S. with the range master while my rifle cooled. I then came back, loaded up another 5 rounds, got onto my rifle, looked through the scope and what do I see? Buck shot all over my target, clearly larger than my 6.5 holes. I stroll over to him, say "uh hey there Bud, just so ya know you shot my target" he promptly retorts "NO I DIDNT!!" I shake my head and walk back to my bench, fire a hand full of shots, then through my scope I watch a 308 sized hole appear in my target along with a shower of splinters from the backer board right as his rifle barks! I yell "DUDE!! YOU'RE SHOOTING MY TARGET!!" He sheepishly looks over his rifle that is CLEARLY pointed to my target that is 40 feet to the right if his target and says "oh....yeah"....Then proceeded to continue banging away at his patterning board. No apology, no offer of a new target, nothing more than a sense of entitlement.
He shortly after packed up his gear, tossed it in his entirely too expensive luxury sedan and took off. My range master chuckled and said, "he wont be allowed back"

All I hoped was that his rounds made it into the berm. What a moron.
__________________
Just shoot the damn thing.
Chainsaw. is offline  
Old June 8, 2018, 03:17 PM   #23
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,273
Many years ago I belonged to a Northern Colorado club range.
The details in my memory are faded,but they had nice,covered benches and an old Chevy range truck to haul steel downrange,etc.

Some vandals with guns tried to shoot the 4x4 uprights of the covered firing points in half.The bullets were going across the range,rather than downrange.

They shot up that old 1970 Chevy pickup real bad.

I don't know if they ever caught them.

This range was on a ranch.Word gets to the landowner.He owns cattle.There are questions about the lease.

And,road signs would get shot up on the hiway.

Great PR to every passing motorist.
HiBC is offline  
Old June 8, 2018, 04:17 PM   #24
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
Oh, yeah. The road signs. Almost have to laugh/cry. Every deer crossing sign with bullet holes in it. Really? What are you doing, playing "I'm Elmer Fudd shooting my deer" just so you can hear it go "clang"?

Sometimes I agree with politicians who say that some people shouldn't own guns.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old June 8, 2018, 05:44 PM   #25
MTT TL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
Posts: 2,780
About 20 years ago I caught some drunken teenagers riding around shooting road signs with a birdshot from 12 Gauge. In one night they shot more than ten signs.

Punks.
__________________
Thus a man should endeavor to reach this high place of courage with all his heart, and, so trying, never be backward in war.
MTT TL is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11575 seconds with 8 queries