Old Ithaca SxS

**44 AMP** · May 4, 2018, 05:15 PM

I'm looking for some help identifying an old Ithaca SxS. From the information I can find, I don't know if its a "Flues" model, A "New Industry Double" or something else.

The gun is 12ga, double triggers, splinter forend, pistol grip (semi pistol grip??) stock. It has "fluid steel" barrels (not damascuse or twist), and was purchased new in 1909.

There is a bird dog (pointer??) engraved on the sides of the action.

The serial number is #190xxx

any information would be helpful.

Thanks!

Dufus · May 4, 2018, 05:38 PM

Going by the SN, I would say a Flues Model.

These guys have some information that might offer some assistance.

They have a few links to different info.

http://diamondgunsmithing.com/VSN.html

**44 AMP** · May 4, 2018, 06:05 PM

thank you! The serial number tracks right with the year I know the gun was bought (by my grandfather, with the barrel length, chokes and stock made to his order).

ligonierbill · May 4, 2018, 07:26 PM

The NID didn't come out until the industry pressure standard was raised in, I believe, 1926. You can easily find low pressure shells, though. I have a 1921 Flues that is a joy to shoot.

**44 AMP** · May 5, 2018, 12:33 AM

When "Papa's" gun was still in semi regular use, in the 70s, we used Rem Shur-Shot 3 1/4 dr.eq. for field use, or the lighter 3dr eq. now referred to as the "dove" load.

One of the things my Grandfather taught me about that gun was never to dry fire (snap) it. There was no need to do that, ever. The safety has a 3rd position which allows the gun to close uncocked if the triggers are held back while closing it.

Another thing he told me was that the springs were guaranteed never to take a set. After he had owned the gun 40 years, he got curious and wrote Ithaca, asking if the guarantee was still good. I have the letter he got back, (in 1949) and it says, yes, guarantee is still good. Also there was a note at the end saying that they didn't recommend use of the express shells, as they were not needed, being "akin to using a bulldozer to thread a needle".

You've got to love the way they talked back then!

No high pressure shells and NO STEEL will pass the barrels as long as I have any say in the matter (and my son, who will get the gun to hold for my grandson (born in mid April

) knows what to do, and not to do with the Ithaca.) 109 years in my family, to date...

FITASC · May 5, 2018, 06:27 PM

Get it checked to see about using modern ammo. Many times some had slightly shorter chambers, and using modern ammo just a tad longer can really add pressures that, while not blow up the gun, will certainly add to a lot of premature wear

**44 AMP** · May 7, 2018, 09:25 PM

Thanks for the reminder, always good to mention those things for the benefit of the readers who may not know.

Papa's gun is chambered for 2 3/4" shells, not the 2 9/16" shells that were also in use in those days.

Papa had the gun made to order, for him. The barrels are 26", and choked FULL/FULL. And the stock has a bit more drop than standard, again, to his order.

It has extractors, not ejectors. He once told me that, had he known then what he knew now, he would have gotten ejectors, despite the increased cost (which I think was $2..)

Papa was a farmer, not a big bird hunter, but he did, sometimes, but primarily hunted rabbit, squirrel, and anything that went near the henhouse...

He told me (and everyone else) how he once killed a fox at 40 rod with that gun.

Of course, he also told me that the best thing about being so old (he passed at 96) was that anyone who could call you a liar had already died...

Jimbo-Indy · May 11, 2018, 11:55 PM

I have one almost like yours, same year, same markings but mine has 28" barrels, both cylinder bore. Works well for skeet. I load light for it, about 2 1/2 dram.

vmaxster · May 16, 2018, 05:54 AM

I think I might have the oldest double hammer 16 gauge Ithaca . Im not sure how I can verify this? Any help? Its certinaly cool. I just want to find out all I can. Its been in storage for more than 40 years.Great patina . Not molested in any way.. 1899 manufacturing date by serial.. 32" barrel (rare)fluid steel twist . The current Ithaca co. does not have old records. Im not sure who does.

vmaxster · May 17, 2018, 02:33 PM

Im trying to learn a bit more about my gun. Does anyone have access to Ithaca records? Or the Ithaca book that Walter Snyder wrote? The best I understand Ithaca did not produce a Grade A in 16 ga in 1899 .. Only 12 & 10..Issue is I have a 16 grade A made in 1899.. I am told it was a special order gun,,Its also a 32" barrel .. I have seen no other 32" on a double hammer of this era

FITASC · May 17, 2018, 03:30 PM

Not trying to disparage this place, but you might want to check over on doublegunshop.com for info on your Ithaca.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

May 4, 2018, 06:05 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	thank you! The serial number tracks right with the year I know the gun was bought (by my grandfather, with the barrel length, chokes and stock made to his order). __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 5, 2018, 12:33 AM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	When "Papa's" gun was still in semi regular use, in the 70s, we used Rem Shur-Shot 3 1/4 dr.eq. for field use, or the lighter 3dr eq. now referred to as the "dove" load. One of the things my Grandfather taught me about that gun was never to dry fire (snap) it. There was no need to do that, ever. The safety has a 3rd position which allows the gun to close uncocked if the triggers are held back while closing it. Another thing he told me was that the springs were guaranteed never to take a set. After he had owned the gun 40 years, he got curious and wrote Ithaca, asking if the guarantee was still good. I have the letter he got back, (in 1949) and it says, yes, guarantee is still good. Also there was a note at the end saying that they didn't recommend use of the express shells, as they were not needed, being "akin to using a bulldozer to thread a needle". You've got to love the way they talked back then! No high pressure shells and NO STEEL will pass the barrels as long as I have any say in the matter (and my son, who will get the gun to hold for my grandson (born in mid April ) knows what to do, and not to do with the Ithaca.) 109 years in my family, to date... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 5, 2018, 06:27 PM	#6
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Get it checked to see about using modern ammo. Many times some had slightly shorter chambers, and using modern ammo just a tad longer can really add pressures that, while not blow up the gun, will certainly add to a lot of premature wear __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

May 7, 2018, 09:25 PM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Thanks for the reminder, always good to mention those things for the benefit of the readers who may not know. Papa's gun is chambered for 2 3/4" shells, not the 2 9/16" shells that were also in use in those days. Papa had the gun made to order, for him. The barrels are 26", and choked FULL/FULL. And the stock has a bit more drop than standard, again, to his order. It has extractors, not ejectors. He once told me that, had he known then what he knew now, he would have gotten ejectors, despite the increased cost (which I think was $2..) Papa was a farmer, not a big bird hunter, but he did, sometimes, but primarily hunted rabbit, squirrel, and anything that went near the henhouse... He told me (and everyone else) how he once killed a fox at 40 rod with that gun. Of course, he also told me that the best thing about being so old (he passed at 96) was that anyone who could call you a liar had already died... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 17, 2018, 02:33 PM	#10
vmaxster Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 9	Ithaca double hammer Im trying to learn a bit more about my gun. Does anyone have access to Ithaca records? Or the Ithaca book that Walter Snyder wrote? The best I understand Ithaca did not produce a Grade A in 16 ga in 1899 .. Only 12 & 10..Issue is I have a 16 grade A made in 1899.. I am told it was a special order gun,,Its also a 32" barrel .. I have seen no other 32" on a double hammer of this era

May 4, 2018, 05:15 PM	#1
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	Old Ithaca SxS I'm looking for some help identifying an old Ithaca SxS. From the information I can find, I don't know if its a "Flues" model, A "New Industry Double" or something else. The gun is 12ga, double triggers, splinter forend, pistol grip (semi pistol grip??) stock. It has "fluid steel" barrels (not damascuse or twist), and was purchased new in 1909. There is a bird dog (pointer??) engraved on the sides of the action. The serial number is #190xxx any information would be helpful. Thanks! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

May 4, 2018, 05:38 PM	#2
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	Going by the SN, I would say a Flues Model. These guys have some information that might offer some assistance. They have a few links to different info. http://diamondgunsmithing.com/VSN.html

May 4, 2018, 07:26 PM	#4
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	The NID didn't come out until the industry pressure standard was raised in, I believe, 1926. You can easily find low pressure shells, though. I have a 1921 Flues that is a joy to shoot.

May 11, 2018, 11:55 PM	#8
Jimbo-Indy Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2008 Location: Owasso, OK Posts: 334	I have one almost like yours, same year, same markings but mine has 28" barrels, both cylinder bore. Works well for skeet. I load light for it, about 2 1/2 dram.

May 17, 2018, 03:30 PM	#11
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	Not trying to disparage this place, but you might want to check over on doublegunshop.com for info on your Ithaca. http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa