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Old June 20, 2018, 11:19 AM   #26
cslinger
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In over a dozen HKs I only had one that had poor ejection, and it was a P30 that took close to 1000 rds to break in (the other P30 I had didn't have that issue). The rest ejected like Swiss watches from day one. In owning the same number of Glocks not one of them has had as nice of an ejection pattern as my HKs did. As you said, each pistol has its quirks.
I have seen it happen enough that I just make it a habit to run hotter and or heavier rounds through any new HK pistols for the first box or three. I have never seen anything like 1000 rounds be necessary. Honestly in most cases a good cleaning and a little dry firing and slide manipulation seems to loosen them up. 9 out of 10 times when I hear about or am asked about HK issues its because its brand new, wasn't cleaned and lubricated out of the box and had its first range trip with the crappiest 115 grain (in 9mm) ammo that could be bought.

My Walther PPS was similar it was so tight from the factory it needed about 3 boxes of 124 grain Nato before it would easily run 115 grain crappy stuff.

.........then there is Tula Brass max.........failed all the time in a VP9 I had......and a Glock 17..........and a P2000.........and a HiPower........and a SIG 226......hmmmm there was a pattern forming. I am convinced that stuff would jam up if dropped down a length of 4 inch PVC pipe.
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Last edited by cslinger; June 20, 2018 at 11:46 AM.
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Old June 20, 2018, 12:16 PM   #27
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Thanks for the input. Always lots of knowledgeable people here.

I think I'm gonna go with a glock 22 gen 4. I just found out I can get blue label pricing on a new glock on account of being a Paramedic. Why Paramedics can get a glock LE discount I don't know, but I'm not complaining.

This is gonna be a nightstand gun, so I kinda wanted either a safety or a longer DA trigger so I could keep a round chambered safely in case I'm fumbling around in the dark for my gun at zero dark thirty after being woken up from a dead sleep. I guess I could just keep the gun holstered in my nightstand and that could serve as a safety.
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Old June 20, 2018, 12:25 PM   #28
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It's not just an LE discount. There's a list of people applicable.

Honestly, I'd still call Glock. You have a pistol from a manufacturer and you know that pistol has functional issues. Your solution is to buy another such pistol from that manufacturer, albeit in a slightly larger size. That doesn't seem the most logical solution.
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Old June 20, 2018, 02:26 PM   #29
hogwiley
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Well the gun I'm looking to buy isn't necessarily meant to be a solution to my glock 23 problems.

Regardless of whether I get the 23 running fine I'd still like a second handgun, since the 23 is currently the only one I own. I might wind up sending the 23 to glock, for who knows how long.

The thing is this, I've had about 5 FTEs out of a nearly 800 rounds shot. With different types of factory ammo and different bullet weights, and using different mags. The infrequency of the problem is what makes this hard to "fix". I didn't really see it as a gun problem until about the third time it happened, then I started to pay closer attention.

5 out of 800 is just often enough to have doubts about the gun, especially since previous to this id had maybe 2 malfunctions out of around 5000 rounds shot through several different handguns(not counting a friends jamomatic 1911 Kimber). Probably 2000 plus through glocks, with zero previous malfunctions.

Could it be ammo caused? I doubt it but its possible. Could it be my grip? Again, doubtful as it was never an issue previously using other .40s, including my brothers older gen 3 .40.

There's a very good chance if I sent it into glock they would put say 50 rounds through it and declare it fine. I think when I spoke to them on the phone they suggested ammo and or grip being the problem. I'm busy these days, working two stressful jobs, so I haven't really put much time or thought into the "problem". I probably will this summer. Meanwhile a second full size handgun wouldn't hurt.
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Old June 20, 2018, 02:57 PM   #30
TunnelRat
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There's a very good chance if I sent it into glock they would put say 50 rounds through it and declare it fine.
Or they might not. It's a bit of a sticking point for me because this has come up on the forums a number of times and I've seen it firsthand where people have issues with firearms and never call the manufacturers on it. Part of the reason for warranties is that if something does go wrong there is someone to stand behind the product. To me not calling them essentially lets them get away with it. I'd add that if it did turn out to be a grip or ammo problem knowing that before you then buy another handgun, and especially one of the same type, might be valuable information. Otherwise you might get a 22 and have the same issues. A potentially unreliable handgun is basically a paperweight, and an expensive one. I totally get being busy, but if you have it for personal protection and you worry about its reliability then making the time seems like a necessity. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.

If you want to pick up another handgun rock on. I don't think anyone on this forum is going to try to talk you out of purchasing a handgun.
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Old June 20, 2018, 04:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogwiley:
I just get the impression a lot of early gen 4's were lemons. I've read everything from recoil springs to ejectors to extractors to poorly machined slides(in which case nothing you do will permanently fix it).
Yep, right you are, my early Gen4 22, needed an ejector swap to a #30274 update, it seemed to correct the BTF&H ejection problem, but this gun confirmed my general dislike for .40S&W WWB value pack ammo, and most service pistols in that caliber.

OP, you passed on a gun that I still regret trading off (USP 40) for one that I couldn’t send off fast enough (G-22). But that’s OK! That HK DA trigger pull taught me more about trigger control than any of my revolvers ever did. All of the options discussed here apply for dealing with a relatively heavy DA trigger, including learning how to stage that DA trigger. If you practice thumb-cocking the gun as you draw the pistol from your holster, you can ignore the DA from the get go. My 9mm P30, 9mm P2000, and HK45 are all v3 trigger variants, and you can believe these are 3 of the best guns I own!
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Old June 20, 2018, 05:31 PM   #32
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hogwiley:
As HistoryJunky stated, the full-size USP DA trigger seems to be one of the worst handgun triggers I've ever tried. Also, unfortunately, the USP 9mm Compact. Otherwise I would have bought the 9mm version (for variety and carry) instead of an extra CZ compact.

Just tried the HK P2000, along with the P30 and these are just as bad. These are brand-new retail examples.

The original Unmodified Sig P6 is bad (Not the actual 225-it's much better), but at least it is a pretty consistent pressure, and even this still beats the USP and Compact.
These USPs begin fairly heavy, but require a strange increase in finger pressure near the end of the DA trigger pull.

Were it not for this unfortunate feature, I would bet that Far fewer HKs would be seen available from private owners on Armslist.

My German-proofed Sigs' DA pulls are so much better than any of these three types of HK.
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Old June 20, 2018, 05:43 PM   #33
TunnelRat
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These USPs begin fairly heavy, but require a strange increase in finger pressure near the end of the DA trigger pull
That's the firing pin block spring. The original version was very stiff. Many of the newer P series pistols use the lighter version, but the date of production comes into play.
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Old June 22, 2018, 04:48 PM   #34
Ignition Override
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TunnelRat:
As a person who hasn't examined these smaller components, it just seems unfortunate that, along with many others, my three German-proofed P series, plus the CZ PO1 and PCR have DA pulls which seem very consistent in DA.

It might be a matter of internal frame space during initial prototype designs.
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Old June 22, 2018, 07:15 PM   #35
TunnelRat
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The DA trigger pull is consistent. It gets stiff at that point every time. HK chose to use a very stiff firing pin block spring, stiffer than others. It's not a matter of frame space as the firing pin block isn't in the frame, it's in the slide. As was mentioned, the newer firing pin block springs are much lighter. That is also by design (the springs are visibly different).

You can get a USP trigger to pull the same as a SIG in terms of DA and SA weight. I've done it multiple times with spring swaps. Why isn't it that way from the factory? I don't know. Some German elf knows better than me.
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Old June 24, 2018, 04:40 PM   #36
Ignition Override
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TunnelRat:
Thanks. The work to change the correct HK spring(s) appeared fairly challenging in YouTube videos.

If it isn't, I would really enjoy having one in the future.
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Old June 24, 2018, 06:19 PM   #37
TunnelRat
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Originally Posted by Ignition Override View Post
TunnelRat:
Thanks. The work to change the correct HK spring(s) appeared fairly challenging in YouTube videos.

If it isn't, I would really enjoy having one in the future.
To change the hammer spring you drive out a roll pin at the base of the grip, then slide out the spring along with a plastic plug and install the new spring, sliding it over the hammer strut. Then you slide the plug back in and reinstall the roll pin. To change the firing pin block spring you drive out a roll pin in the slide, slide the firing pin and spring out the rear of the slide, and dump the firing pin block and firing pin block spring out of the slide (cover it with your hand as the spring is under pressure). To reinstall you do the reverse, with the hardest part being lining up the cutout in the firing pin with the hole in the slide for the roll pin. I can do both springs in say 5-10 minutes. The roll pins aren't even under a lot of tension, no where near a CZ.

I'm not saying this to be some butt hurt fanboy. I've owned HKs, SIGs, and CZs and done full disassemblies on all of them. The USP is surprisingly easy.

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Old June 25, 2018, 01:16 AM   #38
ftttu
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I had a stainless Hk USP with a DA trigger as a duty weapon way back when. I carried it for a while, but I finally couldn't take the "crunchy" trigger anymore. I used to shoot a lot back then, but it never seemed to smooth out even after 1,000 rounds or so. It has been a while now, but I still remember it had the worst trigger out of the 9 duty weapons I carried.

I sold it to another officer who carried it for a long time, and as far as I know, he never complained about the trigger. For me, it wasn't the case.
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Old June 25, 2018, 01:17 AM   #39
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Double post

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