Interesting adventure

[Topaz]

I think this is the right place to post this story, I know it will get some responses that are from a totally different perspective than mine as there seem to be a lot of police and police sypathizers on this site. I would have counted myself as one of the latter until the evening that this occurred.

My wife got an invite to her 25th class reunion and like a fool I insisted she attend as I missed mine. She teamed up with 2 of her old friends and I volunteered to be the DD as I didn't know anybody there. These girls proceeded to act like they were still 17 and 2 got very intoxicated, one of which was my wife. Eventually I got them to leave and my princess got sick, several times, on the way to drop off her friends. We were going to stay at her mothers house that night, fancy houses, small lots, type subdivision.

I got her out of the car and to the grass which she declared to be "good enough" and she was immediately out like a light. I went and let the dogs out and sat on the porch 20 feet away, petting the dogs and watching her snore.

45 minutes later a neighbor pulled a "u" turn and swept us with his headlights and went inside without saying a word. 3 minutes later cop cars squeal to a stop and our golden retrievers go woof-woofing to say hello. We live 10 miles outside of a one-red-light-town so I was thinking that holy **** I could get an unleashed dog ticket here in the city so I got up and walked towards the street to talk my way out of one.

One yells "what's going on here?" I say "everything is ok". he yells louder "what's going on here", once again I answer that "everything is fine".

He grabs me and attempts to put me in a half -nelson as he yells "turn around", he had a bad angle and I step out of it and said "what the @#% are you doing?" Their response was "now you're going to jail" and the other one yelled "get him".

Things started to go a bit poorly for me after that, they tried to pull me out onto the pavement and force me into it face first, this was not an attractive option to me as I'm not 20 years old anymore and don't bounce like I used to. But they were very enthusiastic and insistent about it and rode me like a pet donkey while beating and kicking me.

Then they came up with a new plan, one held me in a bear hug from behind while the other took roundhouse kicks at my groin, they missed but not by nearly enough to suit me.

At some point in this I saw grass in front of me and dove in face first hands above my head, one would assume that this would end it but you would be wrong, this is when it became more fun for them, kicking me and hitting me from behind. They handcuffed me face down in the grass, and around then I became aware of more police being there, I'm not sure when they showed up as I was a bit busy.

Little miss de-tox-in-waiting was screaming at them to leave me alone- hey at least she woke up! The new arrivals were argueing with her and out of the corner of my eye I see one standing over me, he looks over at the arguement, looks down at me and drops from a standing position and drives his knee behind my ear, smashing my glasses off my head and torquing my neck severely. Just a little extra love from the Loveland PD if you will, while helpless in handcuffs.

Here it is 6 months later, several $K of legal bills for dismissed charges and the clock is ticking on any chance to sue for injuries but no atty will touch as it is a gov't case (capped damages) and I have no video tape of the incident. They all ask if I taped it, unfriggenbelievable. (and they would also prefer if I was paralyzed in a wheel chair) All I have is a drunk witness and black legs (they're supposed to be pasty white).

So my question to the audience is what options do I have?? I never realized that the cops can just beat the crap out of anybody they want to with absolutely no recourse for the citizen. At least that is what I've been told by 15-20 attorneys. Are there internal investigations that would actually do anything? Lots of people have told me to get over it at least they didn't get the clubs out or shoot you, I don't concur with the "thank you for only beating me a little bit" opinion.

[LinuxHack3r]

WTH?

I've tried reading through this twice, and not once have I ever figured anything along the lines of why you were even talked to in the first place. Is there something I'm missing here?

[Topaz]

Sorry , my use of the paragraphs function on this site was all screwed up, making it harder to read than it should have been.

The neighbor who pulled the "u" turn and swept us with his headlights saw the princess sleeping in the yard and called 911... Not what I would have done but I guess when you live in a city it is what you do???

[BILLtheDJguy]

I'm willing to bet the department has at least one view of the incident on video, somewhere. It's rare for a black and white not to have a dashcam, these days.
Now how you would secure that, may be a huge issue.
I guarantee that someone saw the whole thing, or they wouldn't have dropped the charges. State's Attorneys think everyone is guilty and it would have taken some hard evidence for them to drop it.
Just my $.02.

[Wagonman]

If I read this correctly, the Copper got a call of a person down in a relatively secluded area, and you give non-committal responses to a direct question and then you resisted a legal arrest. Next time cooperate and keep the wife from sleeping on front lawn and I guarantee that the civil right abridging Cops will refrain from forcibly arresting you.

[44 AMP]

"everything is fine" is also an answer the cops would expect from an ax murderer still holding a blood dripping hatchet.

Your response did absolutely nothing to explain the situation the cops had obviously been called about.

(assuming that the story is the entire truth - as you see it), then it was your actions that led the cops into "we must physically control the situation" mode. Did they go overboard? Yes, but so did you. Not nearly as much, but you did.

You knew what was going on, they didn't. All they knew was a call involving a "body", a guy not answering questions (to their satisfaction), and who physically resisted restraint. And once you resist, or just fail to readily comply, you have removed ALL your credability with them, until some outside agent restores it.

Did they handle it well? No. Neither did you. Now, what are your avenues for recourse? Filing complaints and lawsuits. How can you make them go anywhere? Thats the hard part. You don't have good evidence. Your actions significantly contributed to the escalation of the incident. You don't have a strong case. I didn't say you don't have a case, but without graphic visuals (the tape that everyone seems to think you should have gotten), its going to be tough. And tough, without the promise of big bucks doesn't get many lawyers.

On top of that, the whole "close ranks, protect the good cops who were only doing there job" thing, which you would face even if you had a great video tape, makes a satisfactory resolution, for you, unlikely.

File all the papers and suits you can. Push the system as much as you can afford, but stay scrupulously inside the law. But don't expect satisfactory recompence. Because the odds are seriously against it. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Just don't expect the moon. You'll be lucky to get a few rocks and some dust.

Just exactly what legal /civil rights question are you asking? The stock answer is "get a lawyer". If multiple lawyers are telling you you got no case, or your case won't win, there's a good chance they're right.

Based only on the info you provided, you were badly treated. The cops went further than they should have. In any court review of the incident, your actions are going to be considered the trigger for the cops actions, and they are going to cover you with a big ol' bucket of blame! And the truth is, you can't dodge it all. Excessive force claims, when there actualy is resistance to arrest, are tough ones to get a jury to see. Rodney King's case comes to mind, although with huge differences to yours, the basic "cops went too far" applies, and that case took months with national coverage of selected portions of the video to generate a huge amount of opinion.

I really don't have any idea what else you do, if the lawyers won't take the case, and you've filed all the complaints allowed. I'm not a lawyer, and my advice is worth what you pay for it. I'm sorry you got caught up in a situation gone bad, and I wish there was something else that could be done.

Absent a more specific L&CR question/issue, I think this one will be closed soon.

Good Luck.

[wally626]

You can file a FOIA request to get any video the police may have along with all their reports. Hopefully you have filed a formal complaint with the department. Although once you started to resist, the case against them for just subduing you is pretty much over. The extra abuse is still a crime, but without video proof or witnesses, as the lawyers said you have no case.

[Doyle]

ANYBODY who tries to resist being handcuffed is an absolute fool. First, you will NEVER win - you'll just get handcuffed in pain. Second, you'll just get additional charges of resisting arrest - even if they have no charge to arrest you on in the first place.

Any fighting of the police has to be done in a courtroom.

[NukemJim]

Topaz, sorry man but you screwed up. Did the cops overreact? quite possibly. What did you expect the cops to do when you did not answer a question directly and physicly resisted?

Sorry but the only way to fight a cop and win is with a lawyer, trying to do it with force ( and yes resisiting being cuffed is force ) is not only futile but quite frankly stupid.

No I am not a cop, yes some police break the law (I live in Chicagoland and have seen it myself including bribery) but from the info given you were the one who made the first mistake.

Not meaning to come down on you but you asked.

NukemJim

[woodguru]

Fully forthcoming answers were in order.

"My wife had a bit much to drink, I was the designated driver and it was easier to let her sleep it off for awhile".

Might have questions thrown back at you like did you have anything to drink, suggestions to take her inside, checking to make sure she seemed alright and not hurt in any physical way, etc.

You really can't give too much information in the interest of smoothing over edgy looking situations.

It's a hard one to judge without actually seeing exactly what your responses were. Subtle nuances flip it from cops in the wrong to you in the wrong.

Goes back to what I was saying about what a person looks like too, I don't suppose you were in slacks and a sport jacket, BMW 745 out front were you? Looks and demeanor is everything and that's simply the way it is.

[Topaz]

I had a feeling I would get the other side perspective on here and I was right. All I can say is from their cars stopping in the street till they were beating my ass was at most 7-10 seconds so I would have had to do some quick 'splainin' . I had no idea why they were there till 2 months later in discovery found out about the 911 call. I was up 5hrs past my bed -time petting my dog (no beemer just jeans/golf shirt and a trailblazer).

And yes for the hind-sight crowd the fact that maybe the princess should exert more self control and not sleep in yards has been brought up at the dinner table several times since then.

It is always amazing to me how environment shapes a person's views, where I live we don't lock the doors and if I wanted to shoot my neighbors house with a .300 I'ld have to hold on his roof line to do it. And yet where houses are at most 20 feet apart is "secluded".

The good news is I have what every married man always wanted, a lifetime pass from EVER going to the mother-in-law's again.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I think enough has been said. Lessons learned. Life isn't fair. People can be very silly.

So with no prejudice - Happy New Year.

[Al Norris]

Originally Posted by Topaz

I think this is the right place to post this story, I know it will get some responses that are from a totally different perspective than mine as there seem to be a lot of police and police sypathizers on this site.

I have to comment that this is a rather awkward method of starting a discussion.

Yes, the Firing Line has a few members that are active or retired police. Yes, we have those that can see a perspective from the viewpoint of LE. Yes, we have a(n unwritten) code of ethics that says "no general cop bashing." This same bit of ethics says that we don't bash all democrats, or liberals, or progressives, or conservatives, or republicans, or libertarians.

We want folks to have an open mind. That means that we have to look at things from all angles before we solidify an opinion or make a stand.

Originally Posted by Topaz

I had a feeling I would get the other side perspective on here and I was right.

In discussions, such as this one, you brought up a scenario and the members here have dissected it. This is in line with a discussion of tactics (What Would You Do If ...), is probably where this thread should have gone.

The members here have given you what you seemed to want: A perspective of what LE sees and why they reacted the way they did. Liability is not a one-way street.

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Absent a more specific L&CR question/issue, I think this one will be closed soon.

Question asked and answered. Closed.

Edited to add: I see Glenn beat me to it, while I was composing an answer.