Virginia’s ban troubles

[Skadoosh]

Originally Posted by USNRet93

NOT the politician but the people that put them in office.

Showing up like you are ready and EAGER for armed civil war, CERTAINLY won't. Any more than the guy all tacticool-ed up, swaggering around a city park waiting for a confrontation with LEOs..

NOT talking about 'that' end of the spectrum but the YUGE, unaffiliated, moderate middle. MUCH larger than either end of the spectrum. They vote, BTW..They don't have an opinion, in a lot of cases, and are watching things like this rally, to help make up their mind in November 2020..

John and Shirly Q. Public showing up to lobby day; silent, well mannered/behaved but armed to the teeth and FULL battle rattle, to protest draconian legislation...was and is A COMPLETELY APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. Anything less is what damn well got us to where we are in the first place.

[davidsog]

Gerrymandering is as old as the republic. BOTH sides gerryamnder, some more than others.

Gerrymandering only occurs when a district goes against what the majority of the people who live there want.

In this case, the Government of Virginia does not serve the majority of the State but rather is bought and paid for to serve the wishes of one man.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by davidsog

Gerrymandering only occurs when a district goes against what the majority of the people who live there want.

No.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gerrymander

Definition of gerrymander (Entry 2 of 2)

transitive verb
1 : to divide or arrange (a territorial unit) into election districts in a way that gives one political party an unfair advantage : to subject to gerrymandering
// The government gerrymandered urban districts to create rural majorities.
— Matthew Reiss

2 : to divide or arrange (an area) into political units to give special advantages to one group
// gerrymander a school district

[davidsog]

to divide or arrange (a territorial unit) into election districts in a way that gives one political party an unfair advantage :

You cannot gerrymander in Wyoming for example. Why? The population of Democrats is so small as to be insignificant so you cannot lend an unfair advantage.

I believe in Virginia there are just three districts which are Democrat and those three districts control the entire state. An unfair advantage because most the state is at odds with a small section that now controls everything.

[USNRet93]

Originally Posted by davidsog

You cannot gerrymander in Wyoming for example. Why? The population of Democrats is so small as to be insignificant so you cannot lend an unfair advantage.

I believe in Virginia there are just three districts which are Democrat and those three districts control the entire state. An unfair advantage because most the state is at odds with a small section that now controls everything.

Do those 3 districts have a larger population than the rest of the state combined? Pretty sure why legislatures have a body based on population and one not. House of Representatives and Senate, type thing. But, as I mentioned and further expanded by Aguila, ‘gerrymandering’ is nothing new. Political parties have been doing this for over 200 years.

[davidsog]

Two of them have a lack of compactness scores above 80% and District 11 is above 90% indicating gerrymandering in a direct application of the Polsby and Popper test.

[davidsog]

The Obama DOJ simply outmaneuvered in the courts and is now able to impart a will upon the people of Virginia other than their own.

That is how revolutions begin.

[thallub]

I believe in Virginia there are just three districts which are Democrat and those three districts control the entire state.

They don't control the 100 seats in the VA House of Representatives or the 40 seats of the VA Senate.

A political party cannot control the VA legislature by failing to contest 40 seats in the VA legislature, just can't be done.

The 2017 legislative elections in VA were blowback from the election of Trump. The Democrats flipped 15 seats of the VA House. As a result of the 2017 election the Republican party abandoned Virginia. These two events set the stage for the 2019 election.

Yep, some folks on these boards would start a civil war because their political party lost an election. To them i say this: Jump right out there and start your civil war, don't be surprised when you have few, if any, followers.

As for me, i lost too many relatives on the losing side of the last civil war.

[USNRet93]

Originally Posted by thallub

They don't control the 100 seats in the VA House of Representatives or the 40 seats of the VA Senate.

A political party cannot control the VA legislature by failing to contest 40 seats in the VA legislature, just can't be done.

The 2017 legislative elections in VA were blowback from the election of Trump. The Democrats flipped 15 seats of the VA House. As a result of the 2017 election the Republican party abandoned Virginia. These two events set the stage for the 2019 election.

Yep, some folks on these boards would start a civil war because their political party lost an election. To them i say this: Jump right out there and start your civil war, don't be surprised when you have few, if any, followers.

As for me, i lost too many relatives on the losing side of the last civil war.

Copy to davidsog..wasn't about the President Obama DOJ not gerrymandering.

[davidsog]

thallub

Your post seems kind of unhinged to be honest. Especially the whole "calling for civil war" which is pure fantasy, not anything what was written, and a fiction you just perpetrated.

A system of Government that enforces it own will over that of the people does lead to revolution.

Now that is a fact and not a "call to civil war". It might not be a known fact to you but it having spent 26 1/2 years in the US Army in a job whose main mission in life was the conduct of Unconventional Warfare and its flip side, Foreign Internal Defense it is just a fact. When examining the socio-economic causes of the conflict that schism between the will of the people and the will of the those in power is a common theme.

Unconventional Warfare is working for an Insurgency with the aim of overthrowing a Government in power whereas Foreign Internal Defense is working for the Government in Power against an Insurgency.

It also does nothing to change the fact that those districts:

Two of them have a lack of compactness scores above 80% and District 11 is above 90% indicating gerrymandering in a direct application of the Polsby and Popper test.

[davidsog]

“Democrats can’t beat President Trump and they can’t take back the Senate, so they’re spending staggering sums in state elections to make it easier for radical liberals to win in heavily gerrymandered districts,”

Democrats plan $50M campaign to flip state legislatures before redistricting

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...ampaign-099437

Here is their website organizing the gerrymandering campaign:

https://flippable.org/our-targets/virginia/

Yes both sides Gerrymander. To deny what happened in Virginia as anything other than the result of a concerted effort to Gerrymander in their own political parties favor is deny the truth.

The largest problem is the definition of a voting district varies so widely. It runs the gamut from adhering to existing administrative boundaries to including political homogeneity to political diversity. IMHO, the Supreme Court failed the American People in its job by not taking the opportunity to establish a single definition in Gill vs Whitford.

However the culture of trading off in court who Gerrymanders who is not a viable strategy for the long term well being of our nation. It is simply a political party gaming the courts with the goal of grabbing power to hold power irregardless of the will of the people.

[American Man]

Originally Posted by thallub

They don't control the 100 seats in the VA House of Representatives or the 40 seats of the VA Senate.

A political party cannot control the VA legislature by failing to contest 40 seats in the VA legislature, just can't be done.

The 2017 legislative elections in VA were blowback from the election of Trump. The Democrats flipped 15 seats of the VA House. As a result of the 2017 election the Republican party abandoned Virginia. These two events set the stage for the 2019 election.

Yep, some folks on these boards would start a civil war because their political party lost an election. To them i say this: Jump right out there and start your civil war, don't be surprised when you have few, if any, followers.

As for me, i lost too many relatives on the losing side of the last civil war.

I didn't read his post stating, "this is how revolutions begin" as a call for civil war.

Not even close.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by Davidsog

The largest problem is the definition of a voting district varies so widely. It runs the gamut from adhering to existing administrative boundaries to including political homogeneity to political diversity. IMHO, the Supreme Court failed the American People in its job by not taking the opportunity to establish a single definition in Gill vs Whitford.

I'd suggest that the Supreme Court really fails where it attempts to adjudicate intra-state political disputes that are essentially non-justiciable.

Originally Posted by majority opinion in Vieth, 2004

We conclude that neither Article I, §2, nor the Equal Protection Clause, nor (what appellants only fleetingly invoke) Article I, §4, provides a judicially enforceable limit on the political considerations that the States and Congress may take into account when districting.

https://www.oyez.org/cases/2003/02-1580

It's awful that the VA legislature has chosen to violate an incorporated federal right. I'd want to see any of those bills defeated, and if passed, stricken when challenged.

Having federal judges make state redistricting decisions based on criteria present in no constitutional text isn't a good way to defend the force of constitutional text.


Gerrymandering isn't the cause of these repellant proposed restrictions, but is an effect of democrat dominance of the state legislature when it mattered. Part of the problem of representative government is that it represents people with terrible ideas.

[jrinne0430]

The problems in VA keep coming. Tomorrow, the house of public safety will hear several bad bills. If you can attend, please do so.

From VCDL:
As we warned a few days ago, HB 961, which bans "assault weapons", larger-capacity magazines, suppressors, and more, is up for a committee vote on Friday, February 7, at 8 am.

WE NEED TO STOP HB 961 AND THE OTHER FOUR GUN-CONTROL BILLS FROM MOVING FORWARD:

HB 264, removes getting CHP training from an NRA certified instructor! This will make finding training to get a CHP almost impossible and it will be expensive! It also bans online classes.

HB 600, requires those running family day-homes to lock up their guns, unloaded, with the ammunition locked up separately. Not even a CHP holder can have a loaded, concealed handgun on their person! Another "gun-free zone" that endangers everyone in that home.

HB 1288, takes away gun rights for various MISDEMEANORS.

HB 1499, creates the Virginia Gun Violence Intervention and Prevention Fund. Apparently the only violence that matters is violence that deals with guns.

ACTION ITEM: This is in a big meeting room - let's fill it up!

LOCATION:

General Assembly Building
House Committee Room
900 E Main St.
Richmond, VA 23219

(After passing through the metal detections, make an immediate left and go straight back, past the guard desk and through the glass doors. The meeting room will be on your right. Look for someone handing out GSL stickers.)

Firearms and other weapons are currently prohibited in the General Assembly Building. Folding knives with a metal blade that is less than 3-inches long are allowed.

[raimius]

Well, that didn't appear to go well for anyone. The bill advanced and the crowd was disapproving enough that the police forced the entire audience to leave. One thinks the politicians have lost popular consent when they kick out the public after displeasing them.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/vi...e-destruction/

[Armed_Chicagoan]

With Bloomberg on his way to Virginia they have to pander for that campaign cash.

[Hal]

Why was MLK Day the wrong "wrong day?"

Fact------MLK was a big time gun owner & he strongly believed in both the 2nd amendment & the right to defend one's self and family.

Lost in the saga of Rev. King is the fact that he had applied for - and been denied - a licence to carry a concealed weapon - due to the Jim Crow laws.

It was through his efforts ( and of course others) - that the Jim Crow laws were struck down.

I would have to say that - a day that celebrates a man who so strongly believed all men had the right to help and defend them self - is really the perfect day to celebrate & a gun is the perfect tool for such a celebration.

[Famas]

It would appear that the Virginia House has predictably passed the bills and now they move onto the state senate where the vote will be narrow...the Ds only have a two-seat majority there.

In the past two days, I've seen two articles on sweeping gun control bills being pushed in the states of Arizona and Utah as well. I can't believe this is happening.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Famas

In the past two days, I've seen two articles on sweeping gun control bills being pushed in the states of Arizona and Utah as well. I can't believe this is happening.

I don't mean or intend to be disrespectful, but there has been a LOT of discussion on all the "gun" boards ever since Trump was elected to the effect that the anti-gun forces were shifting their emphasis from trying for a federal ban to going after the individual states. It was predicted, it was a logical expectation, and now we see it happening. You should not be surprised.

We should not be surprised. It's a not-very-subtle hint that we cannot be complacent, no matter what state we live it. If Bloomberg's millions of $$$ haven't reached your state yet, ... stay tuned. It's coming soon to a state near you, so be prepared for when (not if) your state legislature proposes similar legislation.

And pay attention to details. A few years ago the post-Sandy Hook laws enacted in New York and Connecticut were considered "draconian." But ... Connecticut grandfathered currently-owned "assault weapons" as long as the owners registered them. The registration was free, and a one-time requirement. Now look at Arizona, of all places. They want to charge for the registration, require a new background check, and repeat the registration AND THE BACKGROUND CHECK annually.

Talk about creeping incrementalism! You can almost read their minds: "We got this much in Connecticut and New York, so let's see how much more we can get in [____]."

[heyjoe]

i havent seen too many "I'm glad that i live in a free state" posts anymore.

[JERRYS.]

Originally Posted by heyjoe

i havent seen too many "I'm glad that i live in a free state" posts anymore.

that's because more and more "free states" have been infected by democrats. Texans think they're safe but that's because they refuse to acknowledge what has already happened in Houston/Harris County, and Austin.

[JERRYS.]

Originally Posted by jrinne0430

The problems in VA keep coming. Tomorrow, the house of public safety will hear several bad bills. If you can attend, please do so.

From VCDL:
As we warned a few days ago, HB 961, which bans "assault weapons", larger-capacity magazines, suppressors, and more, is up for a committee vote on Friday, February 7, at 8 am.

WE NEED TO STOP HB 961 AND THE OTHER FOUR GUN-CONTROL BILLS FROM MOVING FORWARD:

HB 264, removes getting CHP training from an NRA certified instructor! This will make finding training to get a CHP almost impossible and it will be expensive! It also bans online classes.

HB 600, requires those running family day-homes to lock up their guns, unloaded, with the ammunition locked up separately. Not even a CHP holder can have a loaded, concealed handgun on their person! Another "gun-free zone" that endangers everyone in that home.

HB 1288, takes away gun rights for various MISDEMEANORS.

HB 1499, creates the Virginia Gun Violence Intervention and Prevention Fund. Apparently the only violence that matters is violence that deals with guns.

ACTION ITEM: This is in a big meeting room - let's fill it up!

LOCATION:

General Assembly Building
House Committee Room
900 E Main St.
Richmond, VA 23219

(After passing through the metal detections, make an immediate left and go straight back, past the guard desk and through the glass doors. The meeting room will be on your right. Look for someone handing out GSL stickers.)

Firearms and other weapons are currently prohibited in the General Assembly Building. Folding knives with a metal blade that is less than 3-inches long are allowed.

you guys are getting bent over bad. however, you guys let the democrats take the state senate, state house of reps, and the gov. mansion so it seems just that this is happening.

[Mike38]

i havent seen too many "I'm glad that i live in a free state" posts anymore.

Now that you mention it.....

I also haven't seen many posts about "draconian Illinois laws". Heck, I got slammed with that from someone in a 10 round magazine state. Yea, Illinois sure isn't the best state when it comes to gun laws, but just for the fun of it, after Mr. 10 round mag state made his comment, I went upstairs and loaded a dozen or so of my 30 round mags........

Chicago doesn't cover the entire state of Illinois. People tend to forget that. But to be fair, it wouldn't surprise me if Bloomburg pays a visit to Illinois soon.

[HighDesert]

Tons of Bloomberg BS just hit AZ too. We’re suddenly seeing magazine restrictions, assault rifle bans and other bills that would classify just about everything semi automatic as an assault weapon. The Whole country has gone insane and the left won’t quit until everyone is under their absolute control.

[USNRet93]

Originally Posted by Famas

It would appear that the Virginia House has predictably passed the bills and now they move onto the state senate where the vote will be narrow...the Ds only have a two-seat majority there.

In the past two days, I've seen two articles on sweeping gun control bills being pushed in the states of Arizona and Utah as well. I can't believe this is happening.

Arizona? How is this happening at all?..Look at the makeup of Arizona's state government..Sec of State is Dem, the rest is GOP...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politi...gth_in_Arizona

Same for Utah...Pushed by whom?

however, you guys let the democrats take the state senate, state house of reps, and the gov. mansion

what he said...