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Old January 18, 2020, 04:10 PM   #51
JERRYS.
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Originally Posted by 5whiskey View Post
I think you are wrong. Lord I hope you are wrong.

One fluke off year election where the Anti gun party achieved a razor thin majority because the opposing party didn’t field candidates in several critical races does not make a state a lost cause.
it certainly seems that one "off year" election is all it takes to lose rights to the government.
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Old January 18, 2020, 06:28 PM   #52
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The problem is that it can be MUCH more difficult to get an existing law repealed than it would have been to stop it from being enacted. Legislators don't score PR points with their constituents for deleting old laws, they score points by enacting new laws. Guess where their attention goes.
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Old January 18, 2020, 06:36 PM   #53
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I think you are wrong. Lord I hope you are wrong.

One fluke off year election where the Anti gun party achieved a razor thin majority because the opposing party didn’t field candidates in several critical races does not make a state a lost cause. I remember when Obama won in 2008 and every major news organization was harping on how the Republican Party had been banished into the wilderness. Well, they didn’t stay there very long as they easily retook congress in 2010.

I get it, VA is not the reliably conservative southern state it once was. The northern third of the state is pretty much a suburb to DC, and transplants have shifted the populace some. But it hasn’t changed that radically, as judged by over 90% of the counties passing 2A sanctuary resolutions. No I see a very galvanized opposition for any democrat running for any public office South of Alexandria for a long time to come. Laws may be passed in the meantime. Laws that stand at least a moderate chance of being repealed next election cycle. Being the party in power usually doesn’t last long unless you are in a very reliable state such as California for Dems or South Carolina for Republicans. Outside of some extremely reliable states, everything in the middle usually swings like a pendulum pretty reliably. This is how political history has been pretty much since the end of WW2.

Of course I could be wrong. But I hope not. And I absolutely agree on the insurrection crap. While I think there is a time and place for armed resistance against a government, we aren’t there yet. Any talk of such is... not appropriate now.
first, the sanctuary counties are toothless. if anyone openly defies the new anti 2nd Amendment laws they will be Ruby Ridged by the state police while the sanctuary sheriff's department looks on.

second, once a law is passed (by the state government) its almost never repealed by the same body (state government) that enacted it.

third, the founding fathers took up arms against a foreign government occupying their homeland, not one they voted in themselves.
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Old January 18, 2020, 07:40 PM   #54
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first, the sanctuary counties are toothless. if anyone openly defies the new anti 2nd Amendment laws they will be Ruby Ridged by the state police while the sanctuary sheriff's department looks on.

second, once a law is passed (by the state government) its almost never repealed by the same body (state government) that enacted it.

third, the founding fathers took up arms against a foreign government occupying their homeland, not one they voted in themselves.
You've suggested whoever defies this will be Ruby Ridged more than once. Do you know what Ruby Ridge is to the feds? Well, it happens to be, till this day, their worst nightmare.

I don't think that people are quaking in their boots afraid of what might happen. Do you think the criminal element in the crime ridden urban areas where drugs and gang violence are at the highest levels, are afraid of LE? You think the criminal element in all 50 states is worried about getting Ruby Ridged? How many Ruby Ridges do you think Northam can handle? If I was LE, I would be more worried than anyone. I'd be more worried that if something does happen, that what used to be reasonable law abiding citizens might become pissed off enraged citizens.

Northam is going to get exactly what he wants by pushing his agenda. I see the democrats losing this in the end. LE can barely contain the 10% of civilians that are responsible for 90% of the crime. And now Northam, out of nowhere, is going to start a different war on law abiding citizens and he thinks this is a great idea? Sooner or later they are going to push the wrong person or family... and if they intentionally provoke it, they definitely will.

I see some LE think the citizens are just talking tough and will crumble in the end. But I see LE talking tough, not knowing what they are about to get into... or more like what their politicians just got them into.
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Old January 18, 2020, 08:49 PM   #55
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You've suggested whoever defies this will be Ruby Ridged more than once. Do you know what Ruby Ridge is to the feds? Well, it happens to be, till this day, their worst nightmare.

I don't think that people are quaking in their boots afraid of what might happen. Do you think the criminal element in the crime ridden urban areas where drugs and gang violence are at the highest levels, are afraid of LE? You think the criminal element in all 50 states is worried about getting Ruby Ridged? How many Ruby Ridges do you think Northam can handle? If I was LE, I would be more worried than anyone. I'd be more worried that if something does happen, that what used to be reasonable law abiding citizens might become pissed off enraged citizens.

Northam is going to get exactly what he wants by pushing his agenda. I see the democrats losing this in the end. LE can barely contain the 10% of civilians that are responsible for 90% of the crime. And now Northam, out of nowhere, is going to start a different war on law abiding citizens and he thinks this is a great idea? Sooner or later they are going to push the wrong person or family... and if they intentionally provoke it, they definitely will.

I see some LE think the citizens are just talking tough and will crumble in the end. But I see LE talking tough, not knowing what they are about to get into... or more like what their politicians just got them into.
Ruby Ridge (Idaho) was the federal government going in to get [arrest warrant service] a man that they said defied federal gun laws, and killed much of his family in the preceding resistance. anyone who openly defies the new anti 2nd amendment laws soon to be passed in Virginia will be "Ruby Ridged" but from the state level, unless they capitulate. people in other states already know this, that's why no one is openly defying them.

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Old January 18, 2020, 09:25 PM   #56
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Ruby Ridge (Idaho) was the federal government going in to get [arrest warrant service] a man that they said defied federal gun laws, and killed much of his family in the preceding resistance. anyone who openly defies the new anti 2nd amendment laws soon to be passed in Virginia will be "Ruby Ridged" but from the state level, unless they capitulate. people in other states already know this, that's why no one is openly defying them.
I know what Ruby Ridge was. The point I was making is that you are throwing around the "Ruby Ridged" in some cavalier manner. I don't think you understand that Ruby Ridges will not be as tolerated as you think they will be. I have seen what happens when the people who think they are the good guys, piss off the people they are supposed to be protecting. Some sheriff's are trying to talk some sense to the lawmakers right now. They might want to heed their advice.

This isn't upstate NY where gun control has been part of their rural culture for decades. VA is about as free as any pro gun state has been for longer than a few decades. Northam and his majority in the legislature, even though elected, are not going to pound the rest of the state into submission overnight or at all in the long run. I don't see this gun control fantasy ending the way they think it is going to end.

Ruby Ridge only happened because the Feds pushed it. They pushed and pushed and they regret Ruby Ridge to this day. They know what they did wrong and wished they could have a do over. State level LE pushing something like this, it is going to piss off people in a way they have not yet been pissed off. And I'm not going to say I hope I'm wrong... I know I am right.
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Old January 19, 2020, 10:27 AM   #57
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This is my lawyer disclaimer, I live in Oh, I have no affiliation with any group, I am not advocating anything. I do not want anything I have to say misconstrued as a threat, etc.

With that said.

I do a lot of reading to keep an eye on the political situation. There is a lot of anger seething in this country. A lot.

I saw a video the other day where an ultimatum was issued to the governor of Va. (I will not go back and find it).

I am afraid that if one person gets "Ruby Ridged", and it is not done in secret, it will be game on because everyone else then knows they could be the next one.

All you have to do is read the comments on news blurbs. Over the last couple years, the comments have changed from euphemisms to out and out language. Even on the Corvette forum I belong to, the language has changed to strong and harsh.

Wandering around the web, I have seen the Oath Keepers have gone to Va and are recruiting political as well as tactical instructors.

There is also a lot of DISINFORMATION fanning the fires, on both sides. I received a message from a relative to forward it out. Once I looked at it, I realized someone had put together pictures from totally unrelated events to look like there was military being geared up in Va. to be used against the 2nd amendment supporters there.

It is not good, and unfortunately one side keeps pushing pushing pushing.

I also read a very good editorial that surmised that there is someone (plural) else behind the Democrat party, that they are being used to try and forment a civil war in this country. We all do know (just look at campaign finance disclosures) that Bloomberg dumped a lot of money into Va and the politicians there are now owned.
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Old January 19, 2020, 11:45 AM   #58
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I think China is behind all of this.

All this 2A and gun-grabbing Democrrats stuff is just a distraction.

Much of everything we buy is made in China, so they have the money. It'll take a lot of money to take on the US, so that eliminates most countries/organizations.

They chose Va because Va is about the safest bet for civil retaliation. The citizens will think they're fighting for their 2A rights (which they would be) while playing into the Red Dragon's hand by starting a civil war.

That way China doesn't have to go to war with the US (yet). They'll sit back and the let US fight itself, and wait for the right time to pick up the pieces.

General LeMay was right.

Edit:
Just one more thing...
Anyone else notice that the NRA has been keeping a low profile recently? Wouldn't the NRA that we all know and love be on the front line fighting for our Constitutional rights?
Where has the NRA been?
They've been taking Chinese payola to the bank.

Last edited by Carmady; January 19, 2020 at 12:14 PM.
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Old January 19, 2020, 01:59 PM   #59
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The end result of increasing the military budget year after year and then allowing the people in charge of money to pay their buddies who own all of the big consulting firms making northern virginia a metropolis. I've never met so many millionaires paid with tax dollars then when I was a military contractor in DC.
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Old January 19, 2020, 02:01 PM   #60
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I predict that once these new laws (which ever ones they are) are enacted, no one will openly defy them. the reason they capitulate will be left to anyone's guess.
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Old January 19, 2020, 02:51 PM   #61
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I predict that once these new laws (which ever ones they are) are enacted, no one will openly defy them.
I predict the same. Well actually I suspect there will be that one guy (probably a handful). But mass wholesale open defiance no. I don’t think there will be many AR15s turned in. I also don’t see aggressive LE pursuit of confiscation, to include state agents pursuing individuals only for violating that one law. It will be charged by some agencies if officers happen across it. 2A sanctuaries May not have any teeth to prevent state agencies from enforcing it, but it also may mean the local LEO officers will not themselves enforce that law. Outside of a speeding ticket issued by highway patrol, your average law abiding citizen rarely encounters a state LEO so this is still significant.

Even then, the 2A sanctuaries are really nothing more than a declaration. I don’t know that there would be teeth to prevent an individual officer from charging someone under the new law, even if it’s a declared policy that the agency doesn’t want to charge it. That officer may not last long there, but I don’t know that he could be openly prevented from enforcing a state law.
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Old January 19, 2020, 04:07 PM   #62
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I predict the same. Well actually I suspect there will be that one guy (probably a handful). But mass wholesale open defiance no. I don’t think there will be many AR15s turned in. I also don’t see aggressive LE pursuit of confiscation, to include state agents pursuing individuals only for violating that one law. It will be charged by some agencies if officers happen across it. 2A sanctuaries May not have any teeth to prevent state agencies from enforcing it, but it also may mean the local LEO officers will not themselves enforce that law. Outside of a speeding ticket issued by highway patrol, your average law abiding citizen rarely encounters a state LEO so this is still significant.

Even then, the 2A sanctuaries are really nothing more than a declaration. I don’t know that there would be teeth to prevent an individual officer from charging someone under the new law, even if it’s a declared policy that the agency doesn’t want to charge it. That officer may not last long there, but I don’t know that he could be openly prevented from enforcing a state law.
if anyone uses a banned item in self defense or is caught using it recreationally, they will be made an example of, simple as that. this will ensure that those with banned items are rendered useless, so its just as well.

some think that county sheriff's can persuade some politicians to side with the constitution, while politicians can't even agree on the impeachment fiasco.
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Old January 20, 2020, 03:44 AM   #63
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if anyone uses a banned item in self defense or is caught using it recreationally, they will be made an example of
This will be the most likely approach. They'll bust a few isolated individuals, make an "example" of them, and hope it will have a chilling effect on the rest.
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Old January 20, 2020, 08:41 AM   #64
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Wandering around the web, I have seen the Oath Keepers have gone to Va and are recruiting political as well as tactical instructors.

There is also a lot of DISINFORMATION fanning the fires, on both sides. I received a message from a relative to forward it out. Once I looked at it, I realized someone had put together pictures from totally unrelated events to look like there was military being geared up in Va. to be used against the 2nd amendment supporters there.
Quote:
Lies, conspiracy theories and misinformation about Democrats’ proposed gun control bills have circulated widely, prompting outrage and threats of violence against Democratic politicians.

Lee Carter, Virginia’s only socialist state legislator, has been the target of multiple death threats over a bill pro-gun activists misinterpreted as an infringement on their rights.

Speaking to the Guardian about the threats, Carter said there had been frequent mentions of Monday’s pro-gun protest. “A lot of people [have been] saying, ‘We’re going to kick off the second American civil war,” he said. “This guy is going to be the first one to die. Make sure you show up armed.”
Gonna be 'interesting'..this demonstration today.
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Old January 20, 2020, 08:51 AM   #65
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A local Richmond station is broadcasting live from the scene, http://worldradiomap.com/us-va/play/wrva_live
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Old January 20, 2020, 11:52 AM   #66
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YouTube has a live feed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ8xjg7mcgE
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Old January 20, 2020, 04:52 PM   #67
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Excellent lobby day and HUGE turnout!!! So many there I had great difficulty moving about. Could not get into the Capitol grounds as it was too packed. Thank you all who attended...We must keep up the fight!!! Some pics in the link:
https://www.richmond.com/news/local/...0ebbe.html#126
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Old January 20, 2020, 04:55 PM   #68
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Great job to everyone who went to the rally and kept clear heads. The whole thing was free of incident, something that seems to cause both CNN and the Washington Post to be dismayed.

Did it have any real political effect? Probably not. Did it show gun owners and RKBA activists in a positive light? Absolutely.
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Old January 20, 2020, 05:43 PM   #69
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Any estimate on attendance?
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Old January 20, 2020, 06:06 PM   #70
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Did it have any real political effect? Probably not.
I think it showed gun owners in a very positive light.

You want "political effect?" That takes $$$$.

Speaking of $$$$, was there any sign of the NRA there?
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Old January 20, 2020, 07:43 PM   #71
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Any estimate on attendance?
This youtube video says 22,000, with 6,000 inside the fence, and 16,000 outside the fence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMbaG6CVh48
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Old January 21, 2020, 08:41 AM   #72
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I think it showed gun owners in a very positive light.

You want "political effect?" That takes $$$$.

Speaking of $$$$, was there any sign of the NRA there?
I wasn't there BUT....
I agree..not sure what being all 'tacticool', complete with tree suits, helmets and NVG setups was supposed to mean tho..I think the people wearing 'normal' clothes with an AR or something on their shoulder..making sane statements about the 2nd amendment paid great dividends.
I worried about it becoming a Kent State..with the exception of both sides being armed..it wasn't..AND, anybody who went 'inside the fence', onto capital property, nobody made a stink about not being armed..by shooting somebody..

As for the NRA..nothing on their webiste I could find about VA, lots about New Hampshire......
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I suspect those who were dressed that way may have done so to act as a visible deterrent to any armed radical group/s who were planning on making major disturbance out of the whole thing.
Not sure as I don't think you could tell them apart. I suspect they were trying to make some point, like the guy in tactical grub and AR walking around a park...

Want to rile up the 'other side'? Dress like militia, complete with camo face paint, helmets, NVG stuff and 200 rounds of ammo in yer tacticool vest...be sure to yell at the camera's.

Want to sway the undecided 'middle'? Dress normally, carry that whatever over your shoulder, speak rationally and perhaps have 'middle america' identify with you.
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Old January 21, 2020, 10:25 AM   #73
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I wasn't there BUT....
I agree..not sure what being all 'tacticool', complete with tree suits, helmets and NVG setups was supposed to mean tho..I think the people wearing 'normal' clothes with an AR or something on their shoulder..making sane statements about the 2nd amendment paid great dividends.
I worried about it becoming a Kent State..with the exception of both sides being armed..it wasn't..AND, anybody who went 'inside the fence', onto capital property, nobody made a stink about not being armed..by shooting somebody..

As for the NRA..nothing on their webiste I could find about VA, lots about New Hampshire......
I didn't know what to make of the tacticool stuff either yesterday, but now in retrospect I suspect those who were dressed that way may have done so to act as a visible deterrent to any armed radical group/s who were planning on making major disturbance out of the whole thing. Fortunately everything went much smoother than expected.

And the pro-gun crowd left the place looking clean and untouched.

Imo, if there was one time and one place that the NRA was really "needed" in the last 50 years it was yesterday in Richmond. But they were nowhere to be found, and We The People did just fine without them. I don't know what they would have done if they were there...probably just bum money as always. I'm glad they didn't show up. The NRA useta be a good organization, but ol' man useta's dead.
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Old January 21, 2020, 11:07 AM   #74
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imho --- I am thoroughly disgusted at the organizers of the pro-2nd Amendment rally in Richmond yesterday...because they staged the rally on MLK day.

Also...I believe that the majority of long gun bearers at the rally yesterday, put on a way too much aggressive posture, by carrying their rifles in a low ready position.
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Old January 21, 2020, 11:32 AM   #75
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imho --- I am thoroughly disgusted at the organizers of the pro-2nd Amendment rally in Richmond yesterday...because they staged the rally on MLK day.
A federal holiday associated with civil rights seems the ideal day for such an event.
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