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Old January 6, 2020, 05:31 PM   #1
thallub
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Feds Charge Domestic Violence Abusers Who Own Guns

The federal prosecutor for the western district of Oklahoma has teamed up with local and state law enforcement in charging those subject to orders of protection who own firearms with federal crimes: Think ten years or more.

Quote:
Locally, since Operation 922 was initiated last year, over 50 domestic-violence-related cases have been charged by Western District prosecutors. These cases include all prosecutions for illegal possession of firearms related to domestic violence.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdok/pr...earms-offenses
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Old January 6, 2020, 06:26 PM   #2
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They should have named it "Operation Doing The Job We We're Supposed To Have Been Doing For Decades"
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Old January 6, 2020, 10:17 PM   #3
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Except, the fact that a woman could lie, just to get even with "the old man" and he instantly looses his gun rights. It's happened, more than once in Illinois.
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Old January 6, 2020, 10:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by dogtown tom
They should have named it "Operation Doing The Job We We're Supposed To Have Been Doing For Decades"
It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em. Enforcing laws that have been on the books for decades? Give them full credit for thinking outside the box.

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Originally Posted by Mike38
Except, the fact that a woman could lie, just to get even with "the old man" and he instantly looses his gun rights. It's happened, more than once in Illinois.
That's a flaw in the system, but if the old man's lawyer can't get the protective order blocked or removed, the law nonetheless says that the old man is a prohibited person. IMHO we can't be hypocrites. We constantly complain that we don't need new gun laws until they enforce the ones on the books and see if that makes a difference. Well -- here's a U.S. attorney who wants to enforce one of the laws that are on the books.

I feel sorry for any innocent men (or women) who might get Hoovered up in this but, overall, I can't legitimately object to a U.S. attorney prosecuting people who break the law.
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Old January 7, 2020, 03:07 AM   #5
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The Lautenberg Amendment to the Gun Control Act of 1968, effective 30 September 1996, makes it a felony for those convicted of misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence to ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms or ammunition.

Note this, CONVICTED.

That's not what the op is talking about. A protection order is NOT a conviction.

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charging those subject to orders of protection who own firearms with federal crimes:
I would be interested in knowing WHAT FEDERAL CRIME violating a state protection order is.
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Old January 7, 2020, 08:12 AM   #6
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I would be interested in knowing WHAT FEDERAL CRIME violating a state protection order is.
It’s a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) which includes as a prohibited person someone who is “subject to a court order that— (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate; (B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and [...] includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or [...] by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury“
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Old January 7, 2020, 08:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
I would be interested in knowing WHAT FEDERAL CRIME violating a state protection order is.
Deleted. Already answered.
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Old January 7, 2020, 08:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Quote:
I would be interested in knowing WHAT FEDERAL CRIME violating a state protection order is.
It’s a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(g) which includes as a prohibited person someone who is...
Quote:
From the link:


Quote:
Section 922 of Title 18 of the United States Code prohibits those specific offenders from possessing firearms or ammunition.
The text of 922(G) doesn't prohibit mere possession.

Quote:
It shall be unlawful for any person— ...
to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

If the person in question were already the subject of a protective order when an arm was transferred to him, that would seem to be a 922(G) violation. If he possessed "one in or affecting commerce" and subject to such an order, that would also appear to be a violation.

If the transfer were prior to the order, the possession arguably should not affect commerce (since the now prohibited person wouldn't legally be buying a replacement), and not fall within the federal prohibition.


The scope of Operation 922 looks modest. It involves a federal prosecutor riding local prosecutor's coattails were a state order has been violated. It isn't very many people charged, and the US Attorney's release doesn't detail how many charges involved firearms, but we know it was fewer than 50.
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Old January 7, 2020, 09:12 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by thallub View Post
The federal prosecutor for the western district of Oklahoma has teamed up with local and state law enforcement in charging those subject to orders of protection who own firearms with federal crimes: Think ten years or more.



https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdok/pr...earms-offenses
Gee, sounds like a red flag law...Federal level..
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Old January 7, 2020, 09:39 AM   #10
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It's nothing like a red flag gun law.

This guy, while under a protective order, lied on the form 4473, bought two guns and proceeded to threaten his ex wife with same. He got ten years.

https://www.kswo.com/2019/12/18/dunc...tective-order/


It's a federal law enforcement project called Safe Neighborhoods:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdok/pr...vitalized-2018

Last edited by thallub; January 7, 2020 at 09:44 AM.
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Old January 7, 2020, 09:44 AM   #11
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As Aquila Blanca said, we constantly complain that prosecutors don't enforce the existing law.

Let's not complain when they actually do EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DEMANDING THAT THEY DO.
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Old January 7, 2020, 10:17 AM   #12
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Let's not complain when they actually do EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DEMANDING THAT THEY DO.
Exactly right.

The guy at my link above lied in the 4473 and bought two firearms.

Question: Why was he able to buy firearms? Answer: Some one in Oklahoma failed to report him to NICS.
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Old January 7, 2020, 11:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Let's not complain when they actually do EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DEMANDING THAT THEY DO.
As long as it is done RIGHT, I have no complaints. The question is, ARE they doing it right? and, by right, I mean following FULL DUE PROCESS, using the correct laws, that apply, etc.

If a guy is under a protection order (guess they don't call them restraining orders anymore??) which prohibits him from buying a gun, and he then lies on the 4473 to buy a gun, and then goes and threatens someone, that's multiple violations of law, both state and Federal. and hell yes they should be prosecuted to the fullest possible extent.

What I don't get is why they feel a need to brag about just doing their jobs....
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Old January 8, 2020, 09:18 AM   #14
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What I don't get is why they feel a need to brag about just doing their jobs....
It would seem that way. Then ask yourself: "Why Oklahoma?" Domestic abuse in Oklahoma is considered a non-violent crime: That includes strangling a partner until they pass out. Folks are attempting to change that with very little help from the Oklahoma legislature. Many here consider wife beating a God given right. Federal prosecutors are sending a message.

See page 4a of today's Lawton Constitution.

https://www.swoknews.com/eedition/pa...8fb355047.html
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Old January 8, 2020, 09:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44AMP
What I don't get is why they feel a need to brag about just doing their jobs....
US Attorneys are typically smart, energetic and ambitious. Part of ambition is a talent for self-promotion. Telling everyone one meets about how great he is can be a repellant and unnatural quality, but it seems a common quality for many successful attorneys in many fields.
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Old January 8, 2020, 12:57 PM   #16
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Many here consider wife beating a God given right.
Wife beating is a God given right! Just as paying the penalty for wife beating is a God given right.

(intentional sarcasm)

Conviction of MISDEMEANOR domestic violence makes you a prohibited person under the Federal Lautenberg law. Loss of gun rights, for life.

Do bad things, face bad consequences. That is a God given right. or Karma, which ever way you go...
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Old January 9, 2020, 07:32 PM   #17
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What I don't get is why they feel a need to brag about just doing their jobs...
Deterrence is a goal of law enforcement. If nobody knows a law is being enforced, it has little deterrent effect. Just the reverse has happened in San Francisco where there is a no-enforcement policy in effect for "minor" crimes.

See http://www.crimeandconsequences.com/...scan-2762.html
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Old January 9, 2020, 11:17 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by thallub View Post
It's nothing like a red flag gun law.

This guy, while under a protective order, lied on the form 4473, bought two guns and proceeded to threaten his ex wife with same. He got ten years.

https://www.kswo.com/2019/12/18/dunc...tective-order/


It's a federal law enforcement project called Safe Neighborhoods:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdok/pr...vitalized-2018
to be clear, this was not a bull crap domestic all where a woman lies to get her husband arrested and out of the house to make room for her new boyfriend. this is where the guys go and buy more guns after they got a tpo against them, then went back and made threats after the fact.
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