Norma Brass Problems

dipper · July 13, 2009, 02:14 PM

Hi Guys,

I am wondering if any of you are having or have had any problems with Norma brass.
I purchased 100 pieces of Norma brass in 7MM-08 and sized, trimmed and loaded up 30 pieces with a load that I have used in my rifle many times....it is a conservative load, no were near max. and very accurate in my rifles.

Upon the initial firing of the 30 rounds, I had two primers blow out of the pockets. I was able to get the primers (stayed in the action) and they were not flattened nor did they look "funny".....the other 28 rounds were fine and the primers all looked good.

This morning, I began to reload the remaining 28 cases.
TWO of the cases would not hold a primer....the primer fell out....the other 26 cases the primer seated VERY easily using an RCBS hand primer.

I never had a problem like this using Remington and Winchester brass...ever.
I am going to measure the primer pockets on the 2 loads that blew the primer and the two that would not hold a primer today.
Unfortunately, I sized, trimmed, and primed all 100 cases when I got them so I do not have a case to measure at this time unless I remove a primer from one of the remaining 70 cases.

Primers are Remington 9 1/2 Magnum used with Winchester 760.
I purchased the cases from Midway and called them and told them what happened.....NO help whatsoever.

Anyway, I was wondering if any of you have had a similar problem with Norma Brass.

Thanks.

steve4102 · July 13, 2009, 02:31 PM

Sorry, no problems with Norma brass here. I use it in my 6.5x55 and 300WSM and I find it second to non (except for maybe Lapua) in quality.

What was the load that blew the primers?

If the pockets are truly out of spec, I would call Midway again and demand a refund or replacement. I've never had an issue with Midway.

I would also try a different primer. I don't like or use Rem 9 1/2 so I can't comment on them, but I do know my 210M and 215M primers work just fine in my Norma brass.

Jim Watson · July 13, 2009, 02:40 PM

Some time ago, I traded a .243 for a .22-250. It came with brass, mosty RP and WW but included a box of Norma. The Norma is noticeably softer than the American made cases and gives ejector imprints and hard bolt lift where the others do not. I usually load it with a 50 grain bullet and the same powder charge as for a 55 or 60 grain bullet in the US cases.

dipper · July 13, 2009, 02:51 PM

Hi Steve,

Midway said they would not take the brass back or guarantee it in any way.

They said " once a product is modified, they can not take it back".
Modified means "sized, trimmed, loaded, fired, etc."
I had to laugh on that one, as most people that buy brass size, trim and load it!!

The load is a load I have used MANY times in my rifles.
Nosler 120 GR. Ballistic tip over 48 grains of WW760 with Remington 9 1/2 Magnum primers----well within ANY published load data but more importantly, a load I have used many times in my rifles with both Winchester and Remington brass with no problems....it has always been safe in my rifles with no pressure signs.
Even the Norma Cases that held the primers, the remaining 28 out of the initial 30, showed no signs of pressure and the primers all looked good.
I also shot the same load the same day with Remington brass with no problems and loaded the remington brass this morning with no trouble.
The load is very accurate in my rifles and again, is one I used many times.
I realize that brass can very and am taking that into account, but like I said, the remaining 28 cases out of the 30 showed NO pressure signs...also, upon trying to reload the Norma cases today, 2 would not hold a primer while the other brass was fine.

I'll check sizes in a few minutes but was just wondering if anyone else had any problems.

Thanks.

Wildalaska · July 13, 2009, 03:13 PM

Case capacity? Load worked up in different case....

WildcheckyourfiguresAlaska TM

JD 500 · July 13, 2009, 04:33 PM

I had a load that worked great in Win brass. Then I tried the same load in Nosler brass, and those primers were poppin !

Check out this page on .223 rem --> http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

Scroll down to " .223 rem case weight vs capacity"

They show a variance of 2.6 grains (Of water capacity) between different brass in .223.

In your 7mm-08, it may be a greater variance.

**Unclenick** · July 13, 2009, 04:39 PM

This result is what I would expect if the load was near maximum in the Winchester cases? In .308 (I don't have 7 mm-08), Winchester brass typically weighs about 20 grains less than Norma and Lapua, and has about 2 grains more water capacity. A load safe in the Winchester case cannot be assumed to be safe in the Norma case, especially not if it was already compressed in the Winchester case. Compression causes disproportionate pressure rise. Loose primer pockets occurring in under five reloadings is a standard pressure sign.

What you did here is violate one of the oldest general reloading safety rules, which is: Any time you change any component in your load, including brands or lot numbers, you drop the powder charge down 10% and work the load back up in small charge increments, watching for pressure signs. 5% is adequate for a change of primers in all but the smallest cases.

FrankenMauser · July 13, 2009, 09:43 PM

As has been mentioned....

Norma brass (in my experience) runs thicker, softer, and has a lower case capacity than the Winchester and Remington counterparts. Taking a Win/R-P load and sticking it in a Norma case is almost a guaranteed primer popper. (The loads that cause instant case head separation are the best, though.)

steve4102 · July 13, 2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Nosler 120 GR. Ballistic tip over 48 grains of WW760 with Remington 9 1/2 Magnum primers----well within ANY published load data

It's true that 48gr of 760 with 120gr BT is well within Nosler data. In fact 48gr is the "Start" load for 120gr BT in Nosler #6. However, you are using a Magnum primer whereas Nosler did not.

I will have to disagree with you somewhat on your statement "well within ANY published load data". Sierra for example lists a max of 47.9gr with their 120gr bullets and 210M standard primer. Hornady lists 49.7gr as max with their 120gr bullets and Rem 9 1/2 primer. Hodgdon list 49gr as max with 120gr BT. Yes, you are within published load data, but not by much. Couple that with the reduced case capacity of the Norma brass and the Mag primer and that may be all it takes to put you over the top.

Do a little test just to be sure. Take a fired Rem, Win and Norma case and weight them individually. Then fill each case with water and weigh them again, individually. Subtract to find "case capacity in H20".

ForneyRider · July 15, 2009, 11:33 AM

In general, I find Norma, Nosler Hornady and Federal to have smaller internal capacity than Rem and Win stuff.

I'd start over with a min. load with the Norma stuff.

I did some guesstimation of a min. load of Norma brass in 375H&H and the brass was heavier that the Win brass we were using for other loads.

I use same headstamp for a given set of loads. For my plinkers, I may use mixed brass, but I use a min. load.

With 45 ACP, every once in a while, one will be hotter than another, and I notice it is always a different headstamp than Win/Rem that is the majority of brass I use.

July 13, 2009, 02:14 PM	#1
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	Norma Brass Problems Hi Guys, I am wondering if any of you are having or have had any problems with Norma brass. I purchased 100 pieces of Norma brass in 7MM-08 and sized, trimmed and loaded up 30 pieces with a load that I have used in my rifle many times....it is a conservative load, no were near max. and very accurate in my rifles. Upon the initial firing of the 30 rounds, I had two primers blow out of the pockets. I was able to get the primers (stayed in the action) and they were not flattened nor did they look "funny".....the other 28 rounds were fine and the primers all looked good. This morning, I began to reload the remaining 28 cases. TWO of the cases would not hold a primer....the primer fell out....the other 26 cases the primer seated VERY easily using an RCBS hand primer. I never had a problem like this using Remington and Winchester brass...ever. I am going to measure the primer pockets on the 2 loads that blew the primer and the two that would not hold a primer today. Unfortunately, I sized, trimmed, and primed all 100 cases when I got them so I do not have a case to measure at this time unless I remove a primer from one of the remaining 70 cases. Primers are Remington 9 1/2 Magnum used with Winchester 760. I purchased the cases from Midway and called them and told them what happened.....NO help whatsoever. Anyway, I was wondering if any of you have had a similar problem with Norma Brass. Thanks. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------- "It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees" EMILIANO ZAPATA SALAZAR

July 13, 2009, 02:51 PM	#4
dipper Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Posts: 895	Hi Steve, Midway said they would not take the brass back or guarantee it in any way. They said " once a product is modified, they can not take it back". Modified means "sized, trimmed, loaded, fired, etc." I had to laugh on that one, as most people that buy brass size, trim and load it!! The load is a load I have used MANY times in my rifles. Nosler 120 GR. Ballistic tip over 48 grains of WW760 with Remington 9 1/2 Magnum primers----well within ANY published load data but more importantly, a load I have used many times in my rifles with both Winchester and Remington brass with no problems....it has always been safe in my rifles with no pressure signs. Even the Norma Cases that held the primers, the remaining 28 out of the initial 30, showed no signs of pressure and the primers all looked good. I also shot the same load the same day with Remington brass with no problems and loaded the remington brass this morning with no trouble. The load is very accurate in my rifles and again, is one I used many times. I realize that brass can very and am taking that into account, but like I said, the remaining 28 cases out of the 30 showed NO pressure signs...also, upon trying to reload the Norma cases today, 2 would not hold a primer while the other brass was fine. I'll check sizes in a few minutes but was just wondering if anyone else had any problems. Thanks. __________________ --------------------------------------------------------- "It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees" EMILIANO ZAPATA SALAZAR

July 13, 2009, 04:39 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	This result is what I would expect if the load was near maximum in the Winchester cases? In .308 (I don't have 7 mm-08), Winchester brass typically weighs about 20 grains less than Norma and Lapua, and has about 2 grains more water capacity. A load safe in the Winchester case cannot be assumed to be safe in the Norma case, especially not if it was already compressed in the Winchester case. Compression causes disproportionate pressure rise. Loose primer pockets occurring in under five reloadings is a standard pressure sign. What you did here is violate one of the oldest general reloading safety rules, which is: Any time you change any component in your load, including brands or lot numbers, you drop the powder charge down 10% and work the load back up in small charge increments, watching for pressure signs. 5% is adequate for a change of primers in all but the smallest cases. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; July 13, 2009 at 04:47 PM.

July 15, 2009, 11:33 AM	#10
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	In general, I find Norma, Nosler Hornady and Federal to have smaller internal capacity than Rem and Win stuff. I'd start over with a min. load with the Norma stuff. I did some guesstimation of a min. load of Norma brass in 375H&H and the brass was heavier that the Win brass we were using for other loads. I use same headstamp for a given set of loads. For my plinkers, I may use mixed brass, but I use a min. load. With 45 ACP, every once in a while, one will be hotter than another, and I notice it is always a different headstamp than Win/Rem that is the majority of brass I use. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done.

July 13, 2009, 02:31 PM	#2
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	Sorry, no problems with Norma brass here. I use it in my 6.5x55 and 300WSM and I find it second to non (except for maybe Lapua) in quality. What was the load that blew the primers? If the pockets are truly out of spec, I would call Midway again and demand a refund or replacement. I've never had an issue with Midway. I would also try a different primer. I don't like or use Rem 9 1/2 so I can't comment on them, but I do know my 210M and 215M primers work just fine in my Norma brass.

July 13, 2009, 02:40 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Some time ago, I traded a .243 for a .22-250. It came with brass, mosty RP and WW but included a box of Norma. The Norma is noticeably softer than the American made cases and gives ejector imprints and hard bolt lift where the others do not. I usually load it with a 50 grain bullet and the same powder charge as for a 55 or 60 grain bullet in the US cases.

July 13, 2009, 03:13 PM	#5
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Case capacity? Load worked up in different case.... WildcheckyourfiguresAlaska TM

July 13, 2009, 04:33 PM	#6
JD 500 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 110	I had a load that worked great in Win brass. Then I tried the same load in Nosler brass, and those primers were poppin ! Check out this page on .223 rem --> http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html Scroll down to " .223 rem case weight vs capacity" They show a variance of 2.6 grains (Of water capacity) between different brass in .223. In your 7mm-08, it may be a greater variance.

July 13, 2009, 09:43 PM	#8
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	As has been mentioned.... Norma brass (in my experience) runs thicker, softer, and has a lower case capacity than the Winchester and Remington counterparts. Taking a Win/R-P load and sticking it in a Norma case is almost a guaranteed primer popper. (The loads that cause instant case head separation are the best, though.)