Deactivating primers

[cdoc42]

Most often posts here look for advice regarding the probability that a primer won't fail to ignite. Although nothing lives forever, responses are in agreement that primers are stable and useful for long periods of time.

There are occasions, however, when we might need to deactivate the primer before discarding it, should that need arise. One situation is priming a case only to find the primer seated too easily, signaling the primer pocket has enlarged. One solution might be to simply fire the primer, pointing the weapon in a safe direction, perhaps into an empty garbage can. But recently reading Lyman's 50th Edition, the book points out that gases escaping around the loose primer can damage the bolt face. I suspect this includes a powder charge, but I happen to have about thirty .270 cases with live primers seated in loose pockets and I wonder if firing them all might damage the bolt face.

As a result, I'm wondering if anyone has found a substance, for example, poured into the empty case, that would deactivate the primer so the garbage collection folks don't get a surprise when crushing the trash collected.

[Fotheringill]

If you shoot at a range, just put them into the "live ammo" bucket.

[dallasb]

I would think a penetrating oil would deactivate them.

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[Doyle]

If you put them in the regular garbage, the chance of a primer going off when the garbage is compacted is so remote that it isn't even worth mentioning. Add to that the fact that it is only a primer - not a live round so the worst case scenario is you would hear a "pop" as the truck is compacting. The noise of normal garbage compaction is so loud that I doubt any one would even notice. Probably the same kind of pop they would hear if someone had tossed in a full soda can that got crushed.

[muzzleblast...]

Since they are primed brass there isn't really anything to cause pressure to come back around the primer. The path of least resistance is toward the muzzle. I'd fire them. Of course, penetrating oil, as mentioned, is said to be effective.

[FITASC]

Deprime the cases and reuse in different cases or just throw then away; you don't have a lot of them and the odds of them getting crushed are slim.

[hdwhit]

cdoc42 wrote:
...a substance, for example, poured into the empty case, that would deactivate the primer so the garbage collection folks don't get a surprise when crushing the trash collected.

WD-40 and other penetrating oils have a long-standing reputation for deactivating primers, but since lead styphnate - the active ingredient in most primers - is not soluble in oil, there is a question whether WD-40 actually deactivates primers or simply diminishes their ignition.

Lead Styphnate is soluble in denatured alcohol, but not highly soluble, so you could truly deactivate primers by soaking them in it for several days.

...the garbage collection folks don't get a surprise when crushing the trash collected.

Two points on that:

1. Primers discharge when the lead styphnate is subjected to the sudden shock of the firing pin crushing it against the primer's anvil. It is pretty stable when not subjected to sudden shock so the slow-moving compacting action of the trash truck is unlikely to set them off.
2. Waste disposal companies take a dim view of people burning their quarter-million dollar trucks to the ground. When that happened around here, they paid for a forensic reconstruction of the truck and its contents to determine whose trash started the fire and then they sued the guy for damages (including the cost of the investigation, which I'm sure cost more than the truck).

[mapsjanhere]

I think the primary function of the penetrating oil is to dissolve the sealer over the primer compound, allowing water to finish the job. Using alcohol seems contraindicated as it's flammable and a higher risk than the primer alone. Plus you don't want to pick up copper from the case and make the copper salt.

[Pathfinder45]

If they are loose, they will easily de-prime in your sizing die without harming the primers so that you can safely re-use them.
But this whole thing raises some questions:
1) What brand of primers are they?
2) What brand of cases are they?

If the primer pockets have been expanded, it suggests that your loads are too high in pressure. In that case, you should discard those cases and reduce your loads. On the other hand, I recently bought a certain brand of primers that weren't my usual brand and they were unusually easy to seat in the cases; I could almost get them seated with my bare hands. The CCI and Federal primers were nice and tight, but not these new ones from Winchester. I felt a bit uneasy about it, but they functioned okay in the 30-30 I was loading for and fired normally.

[RC20]

I would think a penetrating oil would deactivate them.

I think you should test that and then report back on results.

[mikld]

Deprime the cases and reuse in different cases or just throw then away; you don't have a lot of them and the odds of them getting crushed are slim.

Done this many times, just push the primer out either with the sizing/depriming die or a dedicated universal depriming die. No big deal.

I have not had any consistent results "killing" primers (and I'd rather use them as intended) in my experience. When components were abundant and inexpensive ($10-$12 for brick) I played with "killing" primers, WD40 worked sometimes, water worked sometimes, alcohol, mineral spirits and about 6 other tries worked, sometimes.

Primers aren't as delicate as some think. How many of the members have crushed a primer sideways in a pocket, without a pop? If push came to shove, and some wound up in the trash, the odds of a primer popping in the trash are about 7.936 bizillion to one. Just look at how a primer works...

[ed308]

Yep. I just push them out of the case and toss in my spent primer container.

[Nick_C_S]

If they are loose, they will easily de-prime in your sizing die without harming the primers so that you can safely re-use them.

^^ This. ^^ But don't forget your safety glasses.

I've done this lots n lots of times - probably 100 or more, in my 33 years of handloading. Not one has detonated during de-priming (but still wearing my safety glasses); and not one has failed to ignite at the range after re-use.

[T. O'Heir]

"...long-standing reputation for deactivating primers..." With nearly 100% unreliability.
Live primers can be popped out using your press with no fuss. Operative words are slow and gently. It takes a fairly hefty whack to set one off.

[hounddawg]

Back in the mid 70's when young and very dumb we used to reload 38's and 45's using an old Lee hammer loader on the back porch. Seating primers was more art than science and you learned to tell the sound that indicated that the primer was seated, one more tap with the hammer after that and there was a loud pop and a smell of singed fingers and cursing. I can't recall anyone ever even needing a band aid for primer bites as we called them

[Mobuck]

Over the previous 50 years of reloading, I've deprimed a few (probably less than 200) live primers(both right side up and upside down) and NEVER had one pop. I've even driven upside down primers out with a LEE punch and hammer. There's nothing for the anvil to bump against so the primer pellet isn't "pinched" and doesn't pop.

[Don Fischer]

Like so many thing's in reloading, reloader's try to get max life and one more out of the component. Silly idea. What do primer's cost not? Think The last gun show I went to I got a brick for $20. That's .02 each. stick it in the rifle, before loading, and shoot it. It's gonna cost you very little and it's done with right now!

[Mk VII]

I tried deactivating some 9mm cases by soaking the primer with oil for more than a year. After that, many didn't fire, but some still went bang, or phut, enough not to recommend this as a method.

[cdoc42]

Pathfinder, to answer your questions, the cases are Remington and the primers CCI. Been using them in .270 since I first started reloading in 1976. I think it's not the load per se but more likely the repeated use of the cases before there are any mouth cracks or lines visible around the head to suspect separation. The cases have been reloaded at least 10 times and visibly looked fine, no suspicions until I seated the primers. Not all cases in the series I was working had large primer pockets -maybe 3 out of 50, but over time I accumulated about 30 as I continued to reload the cases.

[Pathfinder45]

Maybe it's time to retire and replace those cases. You could reuse those primers as I previously mentioned, or, as Don Fischer pointed out, there is a quick and sure method of deactivating them. I've gone both ways as circumstances lead me.

[briandg]

If you wind up with a good number, put them in a steel coffee can and light a half dozen bricks of charcoal. Cover the can with a couple bricks, leaving some air space and step away.sit down and wait until they are all popped.

Make sure that you count them as they go off, or you might shoot your eye out when you take the bricks off the next day.

If you wind up with a large amount of ammo to dump, find a guy who has a really big smoker, heavy gauge steel, and find out when he works. Sneak into the back yard, fire up a huge pile of fuel in his burn chamber, add the bag of old ammo, and wire it shut. Post that video online, make sure that you get clear shots of your face.

[briandg]

The problem with deactivating them is that the pellets are plasticized to preserve them. A polymer is used to bind the powder into a pellet. This binder resists water and oil.

If anything would work, it might be acetone, paint stripper, some product that is actually antagonistic to plastic.

[Pathfinder45]

The best two ways remain to just pop them off or re-use them.

[briandg]

With the price of a primer hovering around tho cents, I'm going to say that reusing them is an absolutely unnecessary way to deal with pulled primers. Even if the possibility of something going wrong is thousands against one, I'd rather be slapped in the face by a 400 pound sums wrestler than reuse a primer that was installed and compressed in that pocket, then pushed other with a pin.

I've mentioned before that the universe hates me. Whatever the worst possible case scenario is, front a hang fire to a possible fire on my bench if it hang fires after extraction, whatever the worst possible thing could be,it will happen. After going through an EF5 tornado, lighting striking my house once and my trees four separate times, going through brain surgery because of a "million to one" brain abscess, I'm even unsure every time I pull a trigger.

There is not a chance in the world that I'd reuse a primer, fire somebody's reloads, or run a round that I found on the ground through something that I'm holding. I've been hit by another driver about every 15,000 miles with four of them rear lenders while stopped (maybe, I've lost count). one time it was even a deputy sheriff when at a stop light. I put up a lightning rod, replaced three bumpers and replaced a totalled car.

Buying new primers is the last of my worries.

[Marco B]

Two weeks ago I did a little experiment regarding this.
I put 5 primed cases in my wet tumbler with the other cases I had to clean.
They went trough the whole process (in this case 2 hr wet tumbling and 1 hr drying on a cookie sheet at 220 F in the oven)
After that I tried to fire them - none of them went bang.
So I thought, they're may be killed.
Out of curiosity I took the Primer apart and lit up the compound.
It was still active and exploded when it was exposed to a flame.

My point of view is, the only way to kill a primer is to pop them, or to burn them.