full length sizing/ neck sizing

[kuca_2004]

ok so once I shoot rounds through my rifle the brass should be formed to my gun. So do I have to full length size the brass or can I just neck size them??

[Ifishsum]

Bolt rifle, you can neck size - you will still likely need to FL size after 2-3 loadings though, because the bolt will become hard to close on a loaded round. You can also carefully set your FL die to resize just enough to freely chamber in your rifle and accomplish much the same thing (namely not overworking the brass).

If they're for a semi-auto, lever or pump rifle you should always FL size as they may not have enough camming action to fully close on a slightly oversized round.

[ShootistPRS]

Kuca,
There are those of us who only neck size who have never had to full length resize. First in determining whether you will have to resize the entire case is how hot your loads are. The more pressure your loads generate the more likely you are to needing to full length size your brass. I have been loading my 30-06 by neck sizing only for the past 45 years. I have never had to resize my cases and some of them have well over twenty loads through the brass.

[Rivertrail]

Just make sure you don't let your buddy with an automatic borrow a round and try to use it. That would be my only caution. other than that it should slightly improve accuracy for you.

[RC20]

I full length size.

As I have done a lot of shooting with good equipment, the groups have come down.

There was a post of a guy with R 700 with a Lilja barrel that was shooting 3s to 4s and all sorts of shifting around with neck bushings.

Despite starting late in the game, I am doing that good and better depending on which gun we are talking about.

My take is that FL with minimal shoulder bump back is the way to go.

[F. Guffey]

So do I have to full length size the brass or can I just neck size them??

You do not have to do one or the other. When someone ask a question about sizing, neck sizing and small base sizing I am reminded of the response from those that think bench resters hung the moon.

The response goes something like 'do like the bench resters, bench resters stop playing with die adjustments and moved on to full length sizing every time years ago. I was one of the very few that did not buy that story because the story teller 'of that story' was using the wrong standard.

If a reloader would think about it they could get 5 different lengths for the case between neck sizing and full length sizing ir as I sometimes say return the case to minimum length.

F. Guffey

[Don Fischer]

Sometime's to salvage brass, ya really do need to neck size, ie excessive headspace. FL size can be another thing though but to fit the case to your chamber you do need to neck size a couple time's. As said earlier, the case will get to tight for the chamber and be hard to close if you can close it at all. At that point you set the FL die to fit your chamber. Back the die out a couple turns, size a case and try to chamber it Likely won't go. Turn the die down about a quarter turn at most and do it again. Keep doing it until the case chambers with no problem. You'll have set the whole case back just a bit to make it fit your chamber. Lot of guy's call it bumping the shoulder. Good enough but the whole case get's sized just like the shoulder. I watched a guy doing it on a video and he recommended removing the firing pin when you do it. I never have done that and don't see any reason at this point to do it. One thing about it though, you need to set that die right there, lock it in, and use it like that, on that rifle only. It will then always make the case fit the chamber. Like to call it partial sizing but in reality it is not partial sizing, it is FL sizing the case to fit that rifle. The shoulder will be bumped back just a bit and the die will connect withthe whole case, impossible for it not to.

[cw308]

Kuca_2004
After shooting the brass in your rifle you can just neck size if its a bolt action. I use to neck size for my Rem. 700 bolt action 308 used only for bench rest shooting. You need the proper tools for measureing your fired & sized brass.
Never liked the idea of neck sizing until its hard to chamber the case then full size. Once you know your chambers size you can full size your brass to a minimun where all your brass is sized to the exact same size every time. To me your full sized brass is fire formed to the right length. Neck size is width until length is to long.

[ShootistPRS]

Bench resters full length resize every time... BUT they aren't using "off the shelf" dies. They have dies custom fitted to their rifles chamber. If you are going to compete in bench rest or long range tournaments then get custom dies made for your rifle and when you replace barrels you replace the dies too.
If you are a hunter or just casually shoot targets at the range and are using "off the shelf" dies you can choose to neck size your cases. As long as you are not pushing the pressure limits of your gun you will likely never have to full length resize your brass.

Custom dies are made using cases that have been fired three times without full length sizing. They minimally size the body so pressures can be pushed to get the velocity to do the job required of them.

[Don Fischer]

After two or three sizing's the case likely won't let you close the bolt on it or will be very hard to do. At this point partial size the case's. Leave the FL die set where you were neck sizing and turn it down maybe a quarter turn at most. Try it again in the chamber and you will still feel the shoulder rubbing in the chamber. Turn the FL die down about another quarter turn and run the same case through again. Again try it in the chamber. Keep doing that until you can't feel the rub anymore and it chamber's easily. Lock your die in there and you won't have to worry about it again and you don't need to neck size anymore. You will have FL sized the case to the spec's of the chamber in your rifle rather than SAMMI specs.

[Stats Shooter]

The only gun I have/will ever neck size only for, is my wife's .270. Mainly because I only push a 130 gr bullet 2800-2850 fps though 3200 fps is safe. My wife doesn't like the recoil of the max load and 2800fps is 3/4" at 100 yards using H4831 long cut.

Because I'm not pushing it, I have achieved 7 sizings so far without touching the body on some Remington brass.

Otherwise I just set my FL die up to give .0015"-0.002" clearance in bolt guns and 0.004" in semi-auto. I also use the Redding comp shell holders.

I am not knocking either method, as I do both. But im not sure how well neck sizing only would work at near MAP.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

Leave the FL die set where you were neck sizing and turn it down maybe a quarter turn at most. Try it again in the chamber and you will still feel the shoulder rubbing in the chamber. Turn the FL die down about another quarter turn and run the same case through again.

The threads on a die body has pitch of 14 tpi. Each turn is 0.071". Quarter turn is 0.018". That's too coarse if you want to bump back the shoulder precisely.

I subdivide the circumference of a lock ring into 4x2x4=32 divisions. Each division is equivalent to 0.0022". The divisions are marked and numbered on the lock ring. I scribe a shallow mark on the thread as index. Each rifle in my collection has its die setting number, so that I can reset the die quickly without much fiddling.

-TL

ps. I don't neck sizing. I tried it. It is more dies, more work, and it doesn't do much to accuracy. Full length resizing only here.


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[mehavey]

IN A BOLT GUN

- Get a Hornady Headspace Comparator
- Graaaaaaadually size a case until it just fits/bolt juuuust closes
- Measure case headspace dimension and subtract 0.002"
- Size to that number every time

IN A GAS GUN

- Unless you're a expert (ipso facto don't have to ask if you need to resize)..
Full-length/cam-over size every time.

[F. Guffey]

Bench resters full length resize every time... BUT they aren't using "off the shelf" dies.

And they are not using 'off the shelf rifles', and they have someone else doing the work. And then? There is my second most favorite story that starts with "All you have to do is...?.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...record-100-8x/

My favorite story is the one about the old shooter from Washington that showed up at Perry without a rifle, he used a loaner, he did not use the first loaner, he used a loaner from a rack of rifles.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

The threads on a die body has pitch of 14 tpi. Each turn is 0.071". Quarter turn is 0.018". That's too coarse if you want to bump back the shoulder precisely.

Reloaders developed all of their bad habits before they met me. I started with a feeler gage because I am the fan of transfers and standards. If I want to set the height of the die above the shell holder I use the feeler gage to set the gap. If I want to know if my press won or if the case won I measure the gap between the bottom f the die and top of the shell holder. AND (a big and) I never forget the case has resistance to sizing, there are times the case has more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome.

And then there is the case, my cases do not have head space, and bumping, bump sounds like something that has to do with an accident. Do not get confused; I have presses that bump, all of my cam over presses bump. There was a time when bump and cam over presses were covered in the instructions, it appears I am the only one left with the instructions. And then there are my Rock Chuckers, I have three, out of the three there is not one of them that will cam over. I have 14 Herter presses, all of my Herter presses cam over, unless you missed the first part that means all of my Herter presses are bump presses.

Nice to know All of my cam over presses bump twice when correctly adjusted, I can adjust all of them to bump the top once when I am going for the magic .002" clearance.

F. Guffey

[Don Fischer]

Ya know, I dedicate to each rifle a set of dies I've set just for that rifle. Never though of a feeler gauge! Good idea. Wouldn't have toe have extra die set's that way. I think your talking about the feeler gauge on top of the shell holder on the ram and screw the die down to it!

By the way I don't recall that my Jr camed over and my Rockchucker does either.

[mehavey]

You will find that each brand, each lot and each firing group of brass has
different springback ----- SAAMI-spec, cam-over, feeler-gauge, and/or
sacrificial-chipmunk notwithstanding.

You might want to invest in the Hornady case headspace comparator....

[F. Guffey]

You will find that each brand, each lot and each firing group of brass has
different spring back

I have no infatuation with spring back, snap back or jump back; I do not spend a lot of time worrying about something I can do nothing about. I have fired many cases that could not remember what they were before I fired them.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

I think your talking about the feeler gauge on top of the shell holder on the ram and screw the die down to it!

There was a time the standard answer for reloaders suggested the reloader grind the top of the shell holder and or bottom of the die. Anything that can be accomplished by grinding can be accomplished with a feeler gage. And then there is the Redding competition shell, the different deck height give the reloader 4 options above minimum length to + .010", the feeler gage give the reloader 10 options + 'to infinity' and for a bonus the reloader can size cases for short chambers,

And then there is the problem reloaders have when the case has more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome, when that happens to me I measure the gap between the die and shell holder before lowering the ram.

And then there is verifying, of the case has more resistance to sizing than my press can overcome I want to know 'by how much' and if I had one of those mindless moments like grinding the die and or shell holder I want to know how much to grind because grinding the shell holder or die increases the presses' ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing.

G. Guffey

[hounddawg]

Just me but I use a Redding body die followed up by a Lee collet. I generally have less than .001 runout

[F. Guffey]

Just me but I use a Redding body die followed up by a Lee collet. I generally have less than .001 runout

I have body dies, not a problem for me but my body dies do not have a shoulder, because? they are body dies. When I add the ability of the die to size the body of the case and size the shoulder at the same time the die is no longer a body die.

There was a time before the bushing die, that was a time when I was the only one using them; meaning sizing the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head without sizing the neck of the case is nothing new.

Back to the Redding bushing die, I never read the part where the reloader adjust the die to size the case and they always leave out the part about the sizing of the shoulder. With a bushing die part of the shoulder does not get sized, that would be the shoulder/neck juncture.

F. Guffey

[cw308]

F.Guffey
I need a little help from you. Can you explain why when using a .336 bushing die , the neck measures .333 OD , I called Brownells there answer was , there are other variables , spring back & brass thickness . My way of thinking is a .336 bushing should give a .336 OD or am I missing something ? I'm not one who minds asking someone who I thing knows more then me. Thank You.

Chris

[mehavey]

I have no infatuation with spring back, snap back or jump back;
I do not spend a lot of time worrying about something I can do nothing about.

That's sorta like saying that you can't stop the rain... so you just get wet.

Meanwhile (for the rest of us), we look at the resultant case headspace
measurement after sizing and change the feeler gauge to accommodate
the springback.

It's also sorta like why God invented umbrellas... for the thinking man.