Carry at the beach - Page 2

Eod1 · July 13, 2017, 12:21 PM

Does that have anything to do with the thread

Obambulate · July 13, 2017, 01:26 PM

Hiking stick is probably the best idea.

But if you wanted to carry, the NAA mini revolvers work well even after getting soaked, but choose one in .22 Mag since the ammo is much better than .22lr and will not fail after getting wet. There are even reports of a loaded mini going through the wash and the ammo was still good.

I like the Pug or Black Widow better than the standard Mini.

spacemanspiff · July 13, 2017, 01:28 PM

Seeing how I did post a legitimate answer previously (advising against going to a place where its close to impossible to be armed), and comparing it to your answer of "i'd kill the dog with my bare hands by putting my hand down its throat and choking it", I'd say that a little levity has been earned here.

Cmon, if you've seen the movie, you'd get the joke. Aint gotta take ourselves so seriously do we?

zincwarrior · July 13, 2017, 01:53 PM

Are you saying if you had a firearm you would have shot a 40lb dog on a public beach in front of your and in the middle of other families?

Lohman446 · July 13, 2017, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Are you saying if you had a firearm you would have shot a 40lb dog on a public beach in front of your and in the middle of other families?

In this particular case, because I did not doubt my ability to physically control the dog, I doubt it would have ever been an issue. The aggressiveness of the owners (one of them) afterwards made me a bit more concerned that I was not carrying. I don't think, given the size of the dog, that drawing the gun would have been needed because I had no question on my ability to deal with it directly.

zincwarrior · July 13, 2017, 03:01 PM

Sorry I meant to add that I would second the concept of a walking stick or such. It will deal with a dog, while at the same time not opening you up to felony charges and potentially being shot for being a terrorist (not being snarky, they had a beach shooting in Texas a few years ago that started a major panic and that was before 9/11).

Lohman446 · July 13, 2017, 03:10 PM

Its not snarky and I get the point.

A bit off point but something that has always stuck with me: Several years ago I got a call from my house that one of the neighbors dogs (from a 1/4 mile away) was standing and growling on my front porch. Now there was a general suspicion that said neighbor fought dogs (not just my suspicion but enough that the township was actually changing zoning rules because of this particular issue). I was not home so I called animal control. Animal control's first question: "You own a gun right?" and that was their proposed solution. I was told by several people with reasonable level of authorities that in the case of those dogs my property line was the point I should start shooting because at that point one of those dogs did present a direct threat to my well being. So it has always kind of colored my view on the general consensus in the area.

The dog on the beach was not of a size that shooting it would have been a reasonable solution.

zincwarrior · July 13, 2017, 03:34 PM

As a CHler the only time I have drawn has been due to dogs (multiple pit bulls at once, and put off a threat by a rottweiler from an owner who thought it was funny to tease his Rott would get off and attack my daughter's wiener dog), just noting for full disclosure (well and that time someone said TexMex wasn't any good-clearly a Nazi spy!). Note because of the above I now carry serious stream mace for doggies when walking ours.

Three concerns which are helped by the stick:
1. Leaving a firearm unattended in an area with both children and thieves-think what could happen there. A stick, well thats just a stick.

2. Shooting a small dog in a public space that wasn't attacking. Thats going to have repercussions. A big threat dog, well less so but its not going to be good. As they say in real estate-location, location, location. A stick will be effective without the repurcussions.

3. Opening up on a public beach, absent being actively attacked that feels like all kinds of bad. Again a stick serves the purpose, and avoids the fight with the owner.

I'd think stick over pepper spray - in addition to shifting winds on a beach- to the same issue as leaving a firearm. Too easy for a kid to get a hold of and spray themselves or another child. Stick less likely.

I'll quit ranting now. Again none of this is meant as an attack or criticism-I have been in your shoes.

Lohman446 · July 13, 2017, 03:42 PM

I think the stick idea is grand considering I have some staff training (though wow that's been awhile, might have to go back and consider a refresher) and more than one good hiking stick.

For the record though many of you have a different view of the amount of people on a public beach than what happens around here on a public night. Your point still stands just not to the degree you may think it does.

K_Mac · July 13, 2017, 04:38 PM

I agree that a stick might be a better choice. I probably would carry my LCP in a pocket and stay out of water high enough to get it wet unless absolutely necessary. I can live from now on without swimming at the beach.

I would not be reluctant to shoot a dog coming after a child either. I understand that it could be a legal nightmare and would make every effort to physically stop the animal, but if a child is in imminent danger I will use whatever force necessary to stop the threat. I doubt anyone here would question the use of deadly force to stop a life-threatening attack by a two legged preditor on the beach or anywhere else. While I am a dog owner and care more for mine than I do most people, an unrestrained, undisciplined dog in public is a menace and should be dealt with accordingly.

And for the record, how dangerous a dog is is not entirely related to its size. A 40 pound dog can be a serious threat to a child or most anyone else... internet ninjas notwithstanding.

CalmerThanYou · July 13, 2017, 04:42 PM

Half swing with a sand wedge

FITASC · July 13, 2017, 05:06 PM

Quote:

but if a child is in imminent danger I will use whatever force necessary to stop the threat. I doubt anyone here would question the use of deadly force to stop a life-threatening attack by a two legged preditor on the beach or anywhere else. While I am a dog owner and care more for mine than I do most people, an unrestrained, undisciplined dog in public is a menace and should be dealt with accordingly.

If you can make a determination about a dog that might just want to play and be absolutely sure it is a public menace and needs to be shot to death in public in that time frame of a second or three, good for you.......I don't know too many who could do that, myself included, even if I'm walking alone on a street, let alone on a beach where dogs seem to play around.

K_Mac · July 13, 2017, 06:06 PM

Quote:

If you can make a determination about a dog that might just want to play and be absolutely sure it is a public menace and needs to be shot to death in public in that time frame of a second or three, good for you.......I don't know too many who could do that, myself included, even if I'm walking alone on a street, let alone on a beach where dogs seem to play around.

While my threat assessment super powers are limited, anyone who has spent over about 10 minutes around dogs can tell the difference in one that wants to play, and one that is serious about a fight. If I step between a dog and a child to fend off an attack, and the dog continues its aggression it gets what it gets. If deadly force is required so be it, whether at the beach or the mall.

The odds are good that if any one of us ever has to use a firearm for self-defense it will be in public. I clearly understand my responsibility and liability in any such situation. Yes, using a firearm is using deadly force and so is using a walking stick. Using the force necessary to stop the attack is what we are trained to do.

I don't understand why there is a distinction being drawn between two and four legged attackers. A knife wielding thug or an attacking dog represent much the same threat of serious injury or death. I carry a gun to protect myself and those in my charge. I really don't care if that threat is from someone's puppy or a terrorist, my response is to stop the attack.

briandg · July 16, 2017, 03:04 AM

Maybe you can carry a canny pack or insist that your wife carry a beach bag, and maintain control over that storage space at every second.

Beach concealed carry is an oxymoron. Either go to the beach equipped for the beach or go there equipped to fight. Wearing a nice Speedo, as I used to, doesn't even allow a tactical knife.

Possibly the knife is your best and only sensible option.

armoredman · July 16, 2017, 05:22 AM

Sword cane?

I haven't been to a beach since 1987, so I don't know what people wear there any more.

FITASC · July 16, 2017, 04:10 PM

Sword canes are legal in most places; a stout cane or walking tick will handle a dog. Not EVERY scenario calls for a gun and 3 reloads..............

AK103K · July 16, 2017, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Not EVERY scenario calls for a gun and 3 reloads..............

Very true, but this is a "gun forum", and its seems for many, guns tend to be the only answer to "everything".

JoeSixpack · July 16, 2017, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK103K

Very true, but this is a "gun forum", and its seems for many, guns tend to be the only answer to "everything".

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

People who carry gun, pepper spray, baton, taser, knife
are often mocked here.

Even though such a load out would give you a continuum of force similar to police.

langenc · July 16, 2017, 04:50 PM

""As for the dog, I think you can get exceptions for comfort animals.. I believe those are usually written by therapists."" copied from #14

I hope you notified whoever it is that controls the beach of this situation. Insist on the leash if they want to insist on the dog.

chaim · July 16, 2017, 05:03 PM

The heavy walking stick could be a good idea. I know you don't prefer a knife and a large fixed blade may violate state law, but a smaller folding knife has to be legal. I mean, if they are legal here in MD (if you are carrying it as a tool, not a weapon), then they have to be legal pretty much everywhere. So, I'd consider a small (2-3") folding knife for situations where the stick isn't enough. Also, I know you don't prefer pepper spray. Several people expressed concern that the stream isn't usually contained to just your attacker (especially on a potentially windy beach). Have you thought about the heavy gel pepper sprays? They do a pretty good job of keeping the stream from effecting multiple people.

tony pasley · July 16, 2017, 05:06 PM

Don't use pepper spray use the foam if that is not available then Raid wasp and hornet foam, gives up to 25' range. a muzzle shot works great.

Siggy-06 · July 16, 2017, 05:14 PM

Fun project idea: get some type of sun hat with a bit of space between the top of your head and the inside top of the hat. Sew some type of pocket holster with retention strap to the inside. Keltec p3at or ruger lcp is just a tip of the hat away, and will be above water at all times if you can swim good.

JoeSixpack · July 16, 2017, 08:08 PM

@siggy, Ok off topic but given the hat suggestion This came to mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC8BvC0PNpI

Naro · July 17, 2017, 10:09 AM

"Sword canes are legal in most places"
In what country? In the U.S. they are considered concealed weapons in most states, and the regulations which would permit you to legally carry one are even more obscure that concealed carry firearms.

MislMan · July 20, 2017, 08:21 AM

When fishing at the beach I carry a small "air-horn" on my belt. This is a palm-sized can of compressed air with a horn outlet. Available in the boating section of most shops carrying boating gear (even Wally World) for under $10. On several occasions I have used it to scare/back-off dogs that were running around free and toward me, their owners not in complete control. The very loud honking backs them off very well and keeps them out of my fishing gear. The air-horn is also a good signaling device when out of sight of others or unable to yell for help. At the beach (as in your situation) there may be other people somewhat near but they won't know you need assistance. Even if they just come over to see what is going on with the dog.

July 13, 2017, 01:28 PM	#28
spacemanspiff Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2002 Location: alaska Posts: 3,498	Seeing how I did post a legitimate answer previously (advising against going to a place where its close to impossible to be armed), and comparing it to your answer of "i'd kill the dog with my bare hands by putting my hand down its throat and choking it", I'd say that a little levity has been earned here. Cmon, if you've seen the movie, you'd get the joke. Aint gotta take ourselves so seriously do we? __________________ "Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard

July 13, 2017, 04:38 PM	#35
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	I agree that a stick might be a better choice. I probably would carry my LCP in a pocket and stay out of water high enough to get it wet unless absolutely necessary. I can live from now on without swimming at the beach. I would not be reluctant to shoot a dog coming after a child either. I understand that it could be a legal nightmare and would make every effort to physically stop the animal, but if a child is in imminent danger I will use whatever force necessary to stop the threat. I doubt anyone here would question the use of deadly force to stop a life-threatening attack by a two legged preditor on the beach or anywhere else. While I am a dog owner and care more for mine than I do most people, an unrestrained, undisciplined dog in public is a menace and should be dealt with accordingly. And for the record, how dangerous a dog is is not entirely related to its size. A 40 pound dog can be a serious threat to a child or most anyone else... internet ninjas notwithstanding. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

July 16, 2017, 03:04 AM	#39
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Maybe you can carry a canny pack or insist that your wife carry a beach bag, and maintain control over that storage space at every second. Beach concealed carry is an oxymoron. Either go to the beach equipped for the beach or go there equipped to fight. Wearing a nice Speedo, as I used to, doesn't even allow a tactical knife. Possibly the knife is your best and only sensible option. __________________ None.

July 16, 2017, 04:10 PM	#41
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Sword canes are legal in most places; a stout cane or walking tick will handle a dog. Not EVERY scenario calls for a gun and 3 reloads.............. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

July 16, 2017, 05:06 PM	#46
tony pasley Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2006 Location: western north carolina Posts: 1,641	Don't use pepper spray use the foam if that is not available then Raid wasp and hornet foam, gives up to 25' range. a muzzle shot works great. __________________ Every day Congress is in session we lose a little bit more of our Liberty.

July 13, 2017, 12:21 PM	#26
Eod1 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2017 Location: Some where Posts: 126	Does that have anything to do with the thread

July 13, 2017, 01:26 PM	#27
Obambulate Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2011 Posts: 582	Hiking stick is probably the best idea. But if you wanted to carry, the NAA mini revolvers work well even after getting soaked, but choose one in .22 Mag since the ammo is much better than .22lr and will not fail after getting wet. There are even reports of a loaded mini going through the wash and the ammo was still good. I like the Pug or Black Widow better than the standard Mini.

July 13, 2017, 01:53 PM	#29
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	Are you saying if you had a firearm you would have shot a 40lb dog on a public beach in front of your and in the middle of other families?

July 13, 2017, 03:01 PM	#31
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	Sorry I meant to add that I would second the concept of a walking stick or such. It will deal with a dog, while at the same time not opening you up to felony charges and potentially being shot for being a terrorist (not being snarky, they had a beach shooting in Texas a few years ago that started a major panic and that was before 9/11).

July 13, 2017, 03:10 PM	#32
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	Its not snarky and I get the point. A bit off point but something that has always stuck with me: Several years ago I got a call from my house that one of the neighbors dogs (from a 1/4 mile away) was standing and growling on my front porch. Now there was a general suspicion that said neighbor fought dogs (not just my suspicion but enough that the township was actually changing zoning rules because of this particular issue). I was not home so I called animal control. Animal control's first question: "You own a gun right?" and that was their proposed solution. I was told by several people with reasonable level of authorities that in the case of those dogs my property line was the point I should start shooting because at that point one of those dogs did present a direct threat to my well being. So it has always kind of colored my view on the general consensus in the area. The dog on the beach was not of a size that shooting it would have been a reasonable solution.

July 13, 2017, 03:34 PM	#33
zincwarrior Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2011 Location: Texas, land of Tex-Mex Posts: 2,259	As a CHler the only time I have drawn has been due to dogs (multiple pit bulls at once, and put off a threat by a rottweiler from an owner who thought it was funny to tease his Rott would get off and attack my daughter's wiener dog), just noting for full disclosure (well and that time someone said TexMex wasn't any good-clearly a Nazi spy!). Note because of the above I now carry serious stream mace for doggies when walking ours. Three concerns which are helped by the stick: 1. Leaving a firearm unattended in an area with both children and thieves-think what could happen there. A stick, well thats just a stick. 2. Shooting a small dog in a public space that wasn't attacking. Thats going to have repercussions. A big threat dog, well less so but its not going to be good. As they say in real estate-location, location, location. A stick will be effective without the repurcussions. 3. Opening up on a public beach, absent being actively attacked that feels like all kinds of bad. Again a stick serves the purpose, and avoids the fight with the owner. I'd think stick over pepper spray - in addition to shifting winds on a beach- to the same issue as leaving a firearm. Too easy for a kid to get a hold of and spray themselves or another child. Stick less likely. I'll quit ranting now. Again none of this is meant as an attack or criticism-I have been in your shoes.

July 13, 2017, 03:42 PM	#34
Lohman446 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2016 Posts: 2,192	I think the stick idea is grand considering I have some staff training (though wow that's been awhile, might have to go back and consider a refresher) and more than one good hiking stick. For the record though many of you have a different view of the amount of people on a public beach than what happens around here on a public night. Your point still stands just not to the degree you may think it does.

July 13, 2017, 04:42 PM	#36
CalmerThanYou Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2017 Posts: 323	Half swing with a sand wedge

July 16, 2017, 05:22 AM	#40
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	Sword cane? I haven't been to a beach since 1987, so I don't know what people wear there any more.

July 16, 2017, 04:50 PM	#44
langenc Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2007 Location: Montmorency Co, MI Posts: 1,551	""As for the dog, I think you can get exceptions for comfort animals.. I believe those are usually written by therapists."" copied from #14 I hope you notified whoever it is that controls the beach of this situation. Insist on the leash if they want to insist on the dog.

July 16, 2017, 05:03 PM	#45
chaim Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,095	The heavy walking stick could be a good idea. I know you don't prefer a knife and a large fixed blade may violate state law, but a smaller folding knife has to be legal. I mean, if they are legal here in MD (if you are carrying it as a tool, not a weapon), then they have to be legal pretty much everywhere. So, I'd consider a small (2-3") folding knife for situations where the stick isn't enough. Also, I know you don't prefer pepper spray. Several people expressed concern that the stream isn't usually contained to just your attacker (especially on a potentially windy beach). Have you thought about the heavy gel pepper sprays? They do a pretty good job of keeping the stream from effecting multiple people.

July 16, 2017, 05:14 PM	#47
Siggy-06 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2014 Location: Florida Posts: 1,148	Fun project idea: get some type of sun hat with a bit of space between the top of your head and the inside top of the hat. Sew some type of pocket holster with retention strap to the inside. Keltec p3at or ruger lcp is just a tip of the hat away, and will be above water at all times if you can swim good. __________________ Flicks just like a lighter, just a different kind of fire.

July 16, 2017, 08:08 PM	#48
JoeSixpack Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2017 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,048	@siggy, Ok off topic but given the hat suggestion This came to mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC8BvC0PNpI

July 17, 2017, 10:09 AM	#49
Naro Junior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Posts: 12	"Sword canes are legal in most places" In what country? In the U.S. they are considered concealed weapons in most states, and the regulations which would permit you to legally carry one are even more obscure that concealed carry firearms.

July 20, 2017, 08:21 AM	#50
MislMan Member Join Date: July 20, 2015 Posts: 57	When fishing at the beach I carry a small "air-horn" on my belt. This is a palm-sized can of compressed air with a horn outlet. Available in the boating section of most shops carrying boating gear (even Wally World) for under $10. On several occasions I have used it to scare/back-off dogs that were running around free and toward me, their owners not in complete control. The very loud honking backs them off very well and keeps them out of my fishing gear. The air-horn is also a good signaling device when out of sight of others or unable to yell for help. At the beach (as in your situation) there may be other people somewhat near but they won't know you need assistance. Even if they just come over to see what is going on with the dog.