BIG game...per?

DDM4LV1 · August 25, 2015, 03:33 PM

Very rarely do I "google" something and come up empty???
I was trying to search:
"what WESTERN U.S. State, has either, the highest 'concentration' of Deer or BIG Game, per Sq. mile?"...
...and worded that every way possible?

Seems there are NO sources for that, just state by state info...too slow.
Looking for either a Map or just THE ANSWER...as in "which State has..."

Anybody know a "source" or site that shows this ?
( Western States, west of Mississippi )
Or anyone just "know" and has the data to back it up...?

thanks !

..but I should clarify or expand on it.
My inquiry is twofold:
for;
1. hunting trips, yes, however...I'd still go where I or someone else wanted to hunt, regardless, as most States have areas with adequate Deer & sometimes, other Big Game pop., and it's "hunting" after all, so don't mind the work & challenge!

2a. But this, also...came up in interesting conversation...
"In a bug-out / zombie apocalypse situation, which STATE would be the BEST / most DENSE per sq. mile, for Big Game ( FOOD not Trophy anymore ) easiest to find, dress & pack-out but yielding plenty of meat, so very LARGE as in Moose / Elk, not really nessasary...DEER just fine?"

2b. Second caveat, AFTER just the shear #'s ( deer per sq. mile data )...
..."BEST deer per sq. mile population CROSS REFERENCEED with BEST State to be 'off the grid' AND have the most deer per sq. mile..."

And, in this scenerio..."TAGS" no longer relevant, needed...law has broken down, Govt. gone rogue...
( oh, wait...that's been the last 7 yrs.,lol.)

jmr40 · August 25, 2015, 05:26 PM

I know of no data in the format you are looking for. You could research the "estimated" number of animals in each state and easily find the square miles. It wouldn't take too long to pull that together

I know Colorado has more elk than any other state by a fairly wide margin and most likely the most by square mile. Colorado might have the most deer, and moose as well.

States such as Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Minnesota, and Iowa are west of the Mississippi, but aren't traditionally thought of as "western" states. Just a guess, one of those is probably has the most deer per square mile. The next tier of states from Texas north to Canada and west are what I consider western states. Parts of those states have high numbers, but parts of them are desert which supports fewer animals per square mile.

This may help

http://www.deerhunting.ws/densitymap

Mobuck · August 26, 2015, 06:18 AM

When there's 100 elk on a 40 acre hay field, that's extremely high density.

Unlicensed Dremel · August 26, 2015, 08:45 PM

QDMA has a free zoomable map that shows the whole country, divided into "45 or more", "30-45", "15-30", "1-15", and none, for whitetails.... those are per square mile categories. Not sure how accurate it is, but it's at least a rough proxy.

huntinaz · August 26, 2015, 10:43 PM

You can rule out AZ for deer. Our elk herd is good though.

FrankenMauser · August 26, 2015, 11:25 PM

That's easy.

Alaska.

Source? Me, based on everything I've seen on TV.

DDM4LV1 · August 27, 2015, 09:46 AM

Thanks to those who RESPONDED, and those who will respond...

...please check my O.P. "edited" .

And consider that?

FrankenMauser · August 27, 2015, 10:54 PM

Quote:

2a. But this, also...came up in interesting conversation...
"In a bug-out / zombie apocalypse situation, which STATE would be the BEST / most DENSE per sq. mile, for Big Game ( FOOD not Trophy anymore ) easiest to find, dress & pack-out but yielding plenty of meat, so very LARGE as in Moose / Elk, not really nessasary...DEER just fine?"

You've gone and sunk your own battleship.

Zombie Apocalypse threads are off-limits here.

samsmix · August 28, 2015, 05:23 PM

I live in Montana, and at one time I would have said we have it, but no longer. EHD, blue tongue, and 20 years of intense doe tagging as left things pretty sparse compared to past years.

Unlicensed Dremel · August 28, 2015, 05:56 PM

The QDMA map I referenced speaks for itself. But it applies only to whitetails. The Mule Deer Foundation has a mule deer map, but it doesn't show densities, just winter and summer home ranges and migrations.

To answer your question a little more specifically, the places where densities of whitetails are the highest are:

-Hill Country of central Texas
-most of West Virginia
-Southern Wisconsin

and a few others, but those are the densest - mostly does, I'm sure.

buck460XVR · August 29, 2015, 10:59 AM

I think once the EOTWAWKI hits, thinking that there will be anywhere that game is plentiful and easy to access is just a pipe-dream. Areas that will grow sustainable crops and have access to fresh water will be the ones folks fight over.

As for ease and numbers of game for general hunting, I'm betting there are areas within every state in the country that have a high concentration of game that are easy to get and easy to get to. For the individual that does not own property in that area, they probably will need to pay. For obvious reasons there are not of many areas like that accessible to the general public.

DDM4LV1 · August 29, 2015, 11:39 AM

"buck460XVR
Senior Member

"I think once the EOTWAWKI hits, thinking that there will be anywhere that game is plentiful and easy to access is just a pipe-dream. Areas that will grow sustainable crops and have access to fresh water will be the ones folks fight over.

As for ease and numbers of game for general hunting, I'm betting there are areas within every state in the country that have a high concentration of game that are easy to get and easy to get to. For the individual that does not own property in that area, they probably will need to pay. For obvious reasons there are not of many areas like that accessible to the general public.

"Areas that will grow sustainable crops and have access to fresh water will be the ones folks fight over."

What are some of the best States for the above, in your opinion?

...and what's "EOTWAWKI" ?

buck460XVR · August 29, 2015, 11:46 AM

Quote:

What are some of the best States for the above, in your opinion?

....definitely not the state I live in. no-way, uh uh.

Quote:

...and what's "EOTWAWKI" ?

End Of The World As We Know It.

Unlicensed Dremel · August 30, 2015, 11:14 AM

Quote:

I think once the EOTWAWKI hits, thinking that there will be anywhere that game is plentiful and easy to access is just a pipe-dream. Areas that will grow sustainable crops and have access to fresh water will be the ones folks fight over.

Agreed.

Quote:

That's easy.

Alaska

I think that's exactly right, but IF and only if you're willing to eat bears, wolves, cougars, and wolverines (some people aren't). There are plenty of them. Sure there's moose, 'bou, and other ungulates, too, but their population densities aren't more than other states (due in part TO the predator population). But if you look at "total meat per square mile density" including predators, then yeah, Alaska and Canada top this hemisphere.

Art Eatman · August 30, 2015, 11:16 AM

Cropland and water? East of I-45 in Texas; Arkansas, south and eastward to the Atlantic and the Gulf--and, I guess, Kentucky/Virginia and on south. Basically, "Old Dixie".

DDM4LV1 · August 31, 2015, 12:22 PM

I was initially thinking..
....from northan AZ. eg., Flagstaff / Sedona or East in tjose Mts. where that lumberjack got snatched by a UFO, some years ago
( seems they made a movie 'bout that...lol )...
...up THRU,
Utah, Idaho, Wyoming & Montana.

Spent lots of time recently, in Bigfork, Kalispell, MT.,
..."Falthead Lake-Valley / Glacier Park area...seems way cool,
and can get way cold...
...but I like the cold.
Maybe 10 acres , place with backup wood-burning heater...water is ALL wells 'round those parts.

Wild Game everywhere...soil seems decent.
Breweries...
Livestock,
Beer
farming...
beer,
orchids...
did I say beer...lol?

But seriously, seems like a lot of gun toting, like minded, folk up there in MT. would pull together in a Zombie-Obamie Apocalypse...
..maybe scoot up to Glacier Park and across to Canada, to hide from the hordes...

samsmix · September 11, 2015, 01:21 PM

If you really want meat, fertile crop land, and a place to get lost, go to Minnesota's (and Wisconsin, Manitoba, Ontario) and eat fish. That North Woods country has fertile soil and water, plenty of fish, deer, bear, moose. Just save up plenty of firewood for winter...then double that. 8 cord would probably be okay, but 12 cord wouldn't go amiss.

Unlicensed Dremel · September 14, 2015, 01:50 AM

I just moved to Flathead valley a week ago, and there's more whitetails here than you can shake a stick out - I see deer and lots of turkeys daily. Deer are all over the town of Whitefish at night, along the main drag. But yeah, let's see how I handle my first winter, ha ha.

Art Eatman · September 14, 2015, 08:35 AM

Back to the OP: The density of deer, statewide, for Texas might not be all that impressive. The western desert portion would be quite low, but the central Texas hill country is notably high. Other areas are lower than the hill country, but still have large numbers.

I suspect that this is true for other states with non-uniform habitat areas. "On average" can be misleading.

kraigwy · September 14, 2015, 09:22 AM

I think maybe the best means of determining the amount of animals in a given area is to check the Fish and Game regulations for the numbers of tags authorized.

I spent 22 years in Alaska, hunting isn't near what people think, I was getting bad when I left in '94, its a heck of a lot worse now. Sure there is trophy hunting but you're gonna pay big bucks to fly out to get them. Normal hunting, forget it. Just look at the regulations. Most of the people are confined to the road network. Bumper to bumper road hunting. Few animals on the list of legal game. Use to be able to hunt the rivers, now its bumper to bumper boats, same thing.

As to western states? I can vouch only for Wyoming. Lots of critters, in some areas, few in others. I live in NE Wyoming. Muley numbers are down after some dry summers and bitter winters. Few doe tags available, but most still have general antlered across the counter tags.

Though personally I don't see the low muley numbers. I own 29 acres on the SD border 10 miles from town. In the summer when its dry, its nothing to get trail cam pictures of a dozen or more mulies at my horses water tanks. And in the winter the same numbers feeding on my hay. But right here there isn't much hunting pressure, there are better areas.

White tails are different, plenty of them and over the counter doe tags are easy to get.

Some places, like the eastern foot hills of the Big Horns, around Sheridan its a completely different story. Talk about over population, the F&G allows un-limited White Tail doe tags in that area. Problem is it's mostly private land. But the critters are destroying the hay fields. If you're a smooth talker you might convince some rancher to let you thin out the white tails in his hay fields.

Yet some areas you can hunt for days and not see anything.

ELK: Elk are herd animals, and they move. I've seen herds of hundreds of elk in one area. Two days later I've spent a week in the same area and haven't see a single animal.

Antelope, (in this area, I don't hunt in other parts of the state) are said to be thin, dry summers, bad winters move them south. Tags have been cut back. No doe/fawn tags in Area 7. However, regardless of what F&G say, I've never had problems finding critters where I hunt. But then I live here. I know where the animals move from water and shelter to the hay fields to feed. But that's personal knowledge, I'm not a biologist nor keep track of over all numbers. I'll yield to the F&G on that.

When I was in HS I hunted eastern Oregon, we always had good luck but from what I hear its really hard to get a tag there now.

Pre-HS, I lived on a small farm in Arkansas, I think there are a lot of critters but hard hunting. Pure luck to see then in the thick forest. But that was only one spot in the state, maybe others was different. I killed my first deer there but I was on a stand and dogs were used to move the deer. I really didn't know much about hunting then, I think now if I was to hunt there again, I'd set up a blind on my uncles corn field. But though my brother and I still own some land there, I'm not going back there to hunt.

Anyway, As I said, if you're looking to move to a place with large numbers of critters, I would suggest checking the F&G regs of that area and see the number of tags they give out and maybe find out why there are large numbers. Lots of critters don't mean much if they are on private land and you cant get permission to hunt. Or it would be cost prohibitive to hunt on someone's land.

Personally I don't hunt deer to be hunting deer, I always pick one up while hunting antelope or elk.

But overall, when it comes to hunting I'm set up in a pretty good place. Maybe not the best but I don't have problem filling tags.

buck460XVR · September 14, 2015, 02:16 PM

In most of the lower 48, access is what determines big game numbers. Meaning either access is easy and readily traversed, or that it is public or private. Less access=higher game numbers. If a SHTF scenario, folks with private land with good big game numbers will protect it with their lives. IOWs, if you want to be sure you have game to hunt in those types of scenarios, you better have deep pockets now. Otherwise you better be young and in good shape.

August 25, 2015, 03:33 PM	#1
DDM4LV1 Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2013 Posts: 4	BIG game...per? Very rarely do I "google" something and come up empty??? I was trying to search: "what WESTERN U.S. State, has either, the highest 'concentration' of Deer or BIG Game, per Sq. mile?"... ...and worded that every way possible? Seems there are NO sources for that, just state by state info...too slow. Looking for either a Map or just THE ANSWER...as in "which State has..." Anybody know a "*source" or site* that shows this ? ( Western States, west of Mississippi ) Or anyone just "know" and *has the data to back it up...? thanks ! ..but I should clarify or expand on it. My inquiry is twofold: for; 1. hunting trips, yes, however...I'd still go where I or someone else wanted to hunt, regardless, as most States have areas with adequate Deer & sometimes, other Big Game pop., and it's "hunting" after all, so don't mind the work & challenge! 2a. But this, also...came up in interesting conversation... "In a bug-out* / zombie apocalypse situation, which STATE would be the BEST / most DENSE per sq. mile, for Big Game ( FOOD not Trophy anymore ) easiest to find, dress & pack-out but yielding plenty of meat, so very LARGE as in Moose / Elk, not really nessasary...DEER just fine?" 2b. Second caveat, AFTER just the shear #'s ( deer per sq. mile data )... ..."BEST deer per sq. mile population CROSS REFERENCEED with BEST State to be 'off the grid' AND have the most deer per sq. mile..." And, in this scenerio..."TAGS" no longer relevant, needed...law has broken down, Govt. gone rogue... ( oh, wait...that's been the last 7 yrs.,lol.) Last edited by DDM4LV1; August 27, 2015 at 09:44 AM.

August 26, 2015, 10:43 PM	#5
huntinaz Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2010 Location: az Posts: 1,332	You can rule out AZ for deer. Our elk herd is good though. __________________ "When there’s lead in the air, there’s hope in the heart”- Hunter’s Proverb "Feed me, or feed me to something. I just want to be part of the food chain." -Al Bundy

August 26, 2015, 11:25 PM	#6
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	That's easy. Alaska. Source? Me, based on everything I've seen on TV. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

August 28, 2015, 05:23 PM	#9
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	I live in Montana, and at one time I would have said we have it, but no longer. EHD, blue tongue, and 20 years of intense doe tagging as left things pretty sparse compared to past years. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

August 28, 2015, 05:56 PM	#10
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	The QDMA map I referenced speaks for itself. But it applies only to whitetails. The Mule Deer Foundation has a mule deer map, but it doesn't show densities, just winter and summer home ranges and migrations. To answer your question a little more specifically, the places where densities of whitetails are the highest are: -Hill Country of central Texas -most of West Virginia -Southern Wisconsin and a few others, but those are the densest - mostly does, I'm sure. Last edited by Unlicensed Dremel; August 30, 2015 at 11:15 AM.

August 25, 2015, 05:26 PM	#2
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I know of no data in the format you are looking for. You could research the "estimated" number of animals in each state and easily find the square miles. It wouldn't take too long to pull that together I know Colorado has more elk than any other state by a fairly wide margin and most likely the most by square mile. Colorado might have the most deer, and moose as well. States such as Louisiana, Arkansas, Missouri, Minnesota, and Iowa are west of the Mississippi, but aren't traditionally thought of as "western" states. Just a guess, one of those is probably has the most deer per square mile. The next tier of states from Texas north to Canada and west are what I consider western states. Parts of those states have high numbers, but parts of them are desert which supports fewer animals per square mile. This may help http://www.deerhunting.ws/densitymap

August 26, 2015, 06:18 AM	#3
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	When there's 100 elk on a 40 acre hay field, that's extremely high density.

August 26, 2015, 08:45 PM	#4
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	QDMA has a free zoomable map that shows the whole country, divided into "45 or more", "30-45", "15-30", "1-15", and none, for whitetails.... those are per square mile categories. Not sure how accurate it is, but it's at least a rough proxy.

August 27, 2015, 09:46 AM	#7
DDM4LV1 Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2013 Posts: 4	Thanks to those who RESPONDED, and those who will respond... ...please check my O.P. "edited" . And consider that?

August 29, 2015, 10:59 AM	#11
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	I think once the EOTWAWKI hits, thinking that there will be anywhere that game is plentiful and easy to access is just a pipe-dream. Areas that will grow sustainable crops and have access to fresh water will be the ones folks fight over. As for ease and numbers of game for general hunting, I'm betting there are areas within every state in the country that have a high concentration of game that are easy to get and easy to get to. For the individual that does not own property in that area, they probably will need to pay. For obvious reasons there are not of many areas like that accessible to the general public.

August 29, 2015, 11:39 AM	#12
DDM4LV1 Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2013 Posts: 4	"buck460XVR Senior Member "I think once the EOTWAWKI hits, thinking that there will be anywhere that game is plentiful and easy to access is just a pipe-dream. Areas that will grow sustainable crops and have access to fresh water will be the ones folks fight over. As for ease and numbers of game for general hunting, I'm betting there are areas within every state in the country that have a high concentration of game that are easy to get and easy to get to. For the individual that does not own property in that area, they probably will need to pay. For obvious reasons there are not of many areas like that accessible to the general public. "Areas that will grow sustainable crops and have access to fresh water will be the ones folks fight over." What are some of the best States for the above, in your opinion? ...and what's "EOTWAWKI" ?

August 30, 2015, 11:16 AM	#15
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Cropland and water? East of I-45 in Texas; Arkansas, south and eastward to the Atlantic and the Gulf--and, I guess, Kentucky/Virginia and on south. Basically, "Old Dixie".

August 31, 2015, 12:22 PM	#16
DDM4LV1 Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2013 Posts: 4	I was initially thinking.. ....from northan AZ. eg., Flagstaff / Sedona or East in tjose Mts. where that lumberjack got snatched by a UFO, some years ago ( seems they made a movie 'bout that...lol )... ...up THRU, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming & Montana. Spent lots of time recently, in Bigfork, Kalispell, MT., ..."Falthead Lake-Valley / Glacier Park area...seems way cool, and can get way cold... ...but I like the cold. Maybe 10 acres , place with backup wood-burning heater...water is ALL wells 'round those parts. Wild Game everywhere...soil seems decent. Breweries... Livestock, Beer farming... beer, orchids... did I say beer...lol? But seriously, seems like a lot of gun toting, like minded, folk up there in MT. would pull together in a Zombie-Obamie Apocalypse... ..maybe scoot up to Glacier Park and across to Canada, to hide from the hordes...

September 11, 2015, 01:21 PM	#17
samsmix Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Location: Montana (Montucky?) Posts: 1,273	If you really want meat, fertile crop land, and a place to get lost, go to Minnesota's (and Wisconsin, Manitoba, Ontario) and eat fish. That North Woods country has fertile soil and water, plenty of fish, deer, bear, moose. Just save up plenty of firewood for winter...then double that. 8 cord would probably be okay, but 12 cord wouldn't go amiss. __________________ You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life. IF we're not supposed to eat animals, howcome God made 'em outta meat?

September 14, 2015, 01:50 AM	#18
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	I just moved to Flathead valley a week ago, and there's more whitetails here than you can shake a stick out - I see deer and lots of turkeys daily. Deer are all over the town of Whitefish at night, along the main drag. But yeah, let's see how I handle my first winter, ha ha.

September 14, 2015, 08:35 AM	#19
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Back to the OP: The density of deer, statewide, for Texas might not be all that impressive. The western desert portion would be quite low, but the central Texas hill country is notably high. Other areas are lower than the hill country, but still have large numbers. I suspect that this is true for other states with non-uniform habitat areas. "On average" can be misleading.

September 14, 2015, 09:22 AM	#20
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I think maybe the best means of determining the amount of animals in a given area is to check the Fish and Game regulations for the numbers of tags authorized. I spent 22 years in Alaska, hunting isn't near what people think, I was getting bad when I left in '94, its a heck of a lot worse now. Sure there is trophy hunting but you're gonna pay big bucks to fly out to get them. Normal hunting, forget it. Just look at the regulations. Most of the people are confined to the road network. Bumper to bumper road hunting. Few animals on the list of legal game. Use to be able to hunt the rivers, now its bumper to bumper boats, same thing. As to western states? I can vouch only for Wyoming. Lots of critters, in some areas, few in others. I live in NE Wyoming. Muley numbers are down after some dry summers and bitter winters. Few doe tags available, but most still have general antlered across the counter tags. Though personally I don't see the low muley numbers. I own 29 acres on the SD border 10 miles from town. In the summer when its dry, its nothing to get trail cam pictures of a dozen or more mulies at my horses water tanks. And in the winter the same numbers feeding on my hay. But right here there isn't much hunting pressure, there are better areas. White tails are different, plenty of them and over the counter doe tags are easy to get. Some places, like the eastern foot hills of the Big Horns, around Sheridan its a completely different story. Talk about over population, the F&G allows un-limited White Tail doe tags in that area. Problem is it's mostly private land. But the critters are destroying the hay fields. If you're a smooth talker you might convince some rancher to let you thin out the white tails in his hay fields. Yet some areas you can hunt for days and not see anything. ELK: Elk are herd animals, and they move. I've seen herds of hundreds of elk in one area. Two days later I've spent a week in the same area and haven't see a single animal. Antelope, (in this area, I don't hunt in other parts of the state) are said to be thin, dry summers, bad winters move them south. Tags have been cut back. No doe/fawn tags in Area 7. However, regardless of what F&G say, I've never had problems finding critters where I hunt. But then I live here. I know where the animals move from water and shelter to the hay fields to feed. But that's personal knowledge, I'm not a biologist nor keep track of over all numbers. I'll yield to the F&G on that. When I was in HS I hunted eastern Oregon, we always had good luck but from what I hear its really hard to get a tag there now. Pre-HS, I lived on a small farm in Arkansas, I think there are a lot of critters but hard hunting. Pure luck to see then in the thick forest. But that was only one spot in the state, maybe others was different. I killed my first deer there but I was on a stand and dogs were used to move the deer. I really didn't know much about hunting then, I think now if I was to hunt there again, I'd set up a blind on my uncles corn field. But though my brother and I still own some land there, I'm not going back there to hunt. Anyway, As I said, if you're looking to move to a place with large numbers of critters, I would suggest checking the F&G regs of that area and see the number of tags they give out and maybe find out why there are large numbers. Lots of critters don't mean much if they are on private land and you cant get permission to hunt. Or it would be cost prohibitive to hunt on someone's land. Personally I don't hunt deer to be hunting deer, I always pick one up while hunting antelope or elk. But overall, when it comes to hunting I'm set up in a pretty good place. Maybe not the best but I don't have problem filling tags. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

September 14, 2015, 02:16 PM	#21
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	In most of the lower 48, access is what determines big game numbers. Meaning either access is easy and readily traversed, or that it is public or private. Less access=higher game numbers. If a SHTF scenario, folks with private land with good big game numbers will protect it with their lives. IOWs, if you want to be sure you have game to hunt in those types of scenarios, you better have deep pockets now. Otherwise you better be young and in good shape.