Seriously Considering Mini Lathe/Mill - Is It Feasible?

[Gunplummer]

You would be better off buying tools and socking them away until you can use them. Same with parts and barrels. You will not make money with a couple dinky machines unless people have changed. You work in a machine shop? How many times did people come up to you with projects? Once you have the machines and want to charge 1/10th of what something is worth, people start to disappear. Buy up stuff you know you will use and stash it away until you can use it.

[tobnpr]

I own a LMS, Hi-Torque Mini-Mill:

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ory=1387807683

Picking a machine should be driven by it's usage.
Obviously, not suitable for cranking out AR receiver from chunks of aluminum in a production environment.
Drilling and tapping rifle receivers? PERFECT.

Never looked back. Great "little" machine- big enough for 90% of what I do, a little more Z axis travel would be nice though. Put a chuck on instead of the collet and real estate disappears quickly. I fitted it with bluetooth DRO, calibrated and accurate.

The R8 spindle is a "big boy" feature- and it makes finding compatible tooling much easier. Brushless motor, infinitely variable speeds. Well made machine.

[dakota.potts]

I don't know where I gave the impression that I would be doing so for money, but I didn't mean to. Should I decide to get a machine or two, it will be for my own use and development

[Bill DeShivs]

I make quite a bit of money just turning firing pins on the little lathes. They paid for themselves rather quickly. For the OP, a miniature machining center could be what he needs. Good quality tools will do everything large ones will do-they just don't have the physical capacity to do large work. All the principles are the same, and they are a lot of fun.
That said- big tools can do small work. Small tools can't do big work.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

dakota.potts,

If you have steel manufacturing around you, check the local scrap yards, as I have seen good older lathes and mills sold for scrap. I bought two good fork lifts that were sold for scrap that way, when I had my fabrication shop. A friend of mine bought a 10' bed Clausing lathe at a steal, from our local scrap dealer. I, myself, just missed a good six foot bed South Bend, Turnado, lathe one time. They had already torched it in two, right in the middle of the bed. I cringed at the sight. I bought a Johanson radial drill/drill press this way, for $500, and only had to put a new rubber vane in the oil pump. I think it took #3 Morse taper bits, and would drill up to 2-1/2" holes in steel. Sometimes you might have to do some work on one, but you can get some good deals by looking around. Also, some machine shops are willing to part with older machinery for cheap.

[johnwilliamson062]

If you are disturbing other tenants, most landlords will find a way to remove you. There are lots of reasons available in most states if the landlord wants to document things. I have tenants who pay me on time, don't flood their bathroom, replace their own light bulbs, and plunge their own toilets. Most are well past their one year lease and have no intention of moving. If I start getting calls from them about the new guy who is running a machine shop in his spare bedroom, that is going to get my attention.

I would only purchase a mill if it had R8 spindle. There is an incredible amount of R8 tooling on the secondary market at great prices.

http://shopmasterusa.com/
My current work-space is a little damp, but I'm planning to purchase another building with a dry area to set one of these up.
More expensive, but I'm a whole lot better at writing a program than holding consistent speed turning the wheels. If you price small jobs to where you are paying your overhead, tooling, and some scrap, and count your time as experience, I don't think you will have trouble finding small jobs not requiring an FFL that will go a long way towards paying for a small work space and decent machines. Especially if you are near a farm community.

If you get a bigger machine, make sure you have a plan to transport it. If you have to pay someone to deliver that may cost almost as much as the machine itself.

Here is a good test for you. Figure out what depth of cuts you can take with the various machines you are interested in on the materials you will be working with, then go into your lab and try to d one of your school projects limiting yourself to those depth of cuts, tool diameters, etc. See how long until you are pulling your hair out. I've worked on some 60HP CNC machines. Machines you could stand inside without looking ridiculous. Machines that can take off a half inch at a time without knowing it. Trying to do even small work .050 or less a pass would frustrate me quickly.

[Shimpy]

I can relate to how you want a lathe and vertical mill. I went thru that for years until I found a small Atlas 10" lathe. I wouldn't call it precision and the mill attachment was almost worthless. Later got a Jet lathe and bench mill that was much better. One of the bench rest barrels I chambered on that lathe set the world record for 10 shots at 300 yds in the Unlimited class in the late 70's. After over 30 years as a now retired machinist/tool maker I would again like to have a lathe.

[dakota.potts]

I have never been a breakneck machinist. In fact, I can't remember the last time I took a cut on a lathe deeper than .050" on steel. It seems from research that these little machines should produce less noise than a washing machine or dishwasher, so I see no reason it would disturb other tenants. I'm not really planning a "machine shop" anymore than buying a sewing machine would constitute a fabric mill. Just a small machine or two to make some small pieces for myself and get some practice in. I would likely do a lot of plastic to practice operations such as threading

[Rob228]

Check the local personal ads or advertise that you are looking to rent garage space. I see a lot of it where I am from, and even rented my garage out for storage for 100 a month.

[Rob228]

Actually, that got me thinking. When I had a storage unit in CA, every time I would go there, a band was practicing in one of the 8X10' units. That way they didn't disturb anyone. You might be able to set up shop in a storage unit pretty cheap.

[Bill DeShivs]

The small machines don't make any more noise than a sewing machine. You can run a Unimat in one bedroom without disturbing someone in the next bedroom.

[Gunplummer]

Ha, ha. Now that is funny. Comparing a Unimat to a sewing machine. About thirty years ago my buddy had a Unimat and the belt WAS from a sewing machine. You would be lucky to take a .005 cut in aluminum with out the belt slipping. I was walking around Harbor Freight last week. They have a small bench lathe cheap. Allegedly you can thread with it. Check it out.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

Gunplummer, is it that little 12" bed? I think they quit stocking or selling any large lathes, as they don't show up on their website now.

They used to have a 8" or 10" swing by about 24"-28" bed, and I think it had about a 0.7" spindle bore, that had some lever type change gears, and was belt driven, that wasn't too bad. They had a cabinet with it, setting in their showroom in Kenova, WV. It used to have a price on it of around $899.00.

I would say a table top would work, but you couldn't make heavy cuts with it. Though that may be all he needs, too. That can be bought for around $599 I think.

I had a "12 x 36" geared head, that I bought from Blue Ridge Machinery, and it was surprisingly quiet. My 72" Cincinnati lathe was noisy and loud.

[gyvel]

Dakota, look around for an old Sears Craftsman lathe that was made by Atlas. It runs on 110, is quiet, doesn't' take up more than 2 1/2 x 4' of table space.

You can still get any part to rebuild it, and you have changeable gears and an automatic gear feed.

There is also a milling adaptor available for it with which you can do small jobs.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

One thing to keep in mind, about those little lathes that are table top, from Harbor Freight and Grizzly, is that most of the gearing is plastic. What kind, I'm not sure.

[GEARHEAD_ENG]

Originally Posted by gyvel

Dakota, look around for an old Sears Craftsman lathe that was made by Atlas. It runs on 110, is quiet, doesn't' take up more than 2 1/2 x 4' of table space.

You can still get any part to rebuild it, and you have changeable gears and an automatic gear feed.

There is also a milling adaptor available for it with which you can do small jobs.

I have a Sears Craftsman 109 lathe in my garage. When I worked at a machine shop a gentleman brought it in and said it was his dad's hobby lathe and didn't have a need for it. I have all the change gears and everything for it. It does run quiet. I'll sell it for a low price!

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

GEARHEAD_ENG, send dakota.potts a private message with price and you're whereabouts, and he might be interested.

[dakota.potts]

I sent a PM regarding the Craftsman.

I talked to a couple of my instructors at school today (we have a variety specializing in things from machining to checkering and stockmaking) and got a similar general consensus- that a lot of good work can be done on the old Craftsman/Atlas lathes and that they could be mounted on a benchtop in a corner somewhere without too much trouble. They said I'd probably be happy with one of the Chinese lathes for practice and that it wouldn't do much heavy work. So for me it's going to come down to making a decision on weight and what I can feasibly handle.

As far as any other machines (including a small mill) I have a friend who is letting me store and use my shop press in his outbuilding/garage. I'm going over there soon to clear some space out and install the press, and while we're there we're going to see if we have room for a mill like that. He's in the gunsmithing program also, so if there's space, he's willing to let me set up a small mill there in exchange for a small monthly rent and allowing him to use the machine also. I could do the same for the lathe if it becomes a problem.

So seems like things are moving in a positive direction in that regard.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

dakota.potts, Blue Ridge Machinery used to carry everything, including parts, for the Atlas lathes. Their link is below, and they're not far from here, maybe 30 miles.

http://www.blueridgemachinery.com/

Atlas:

http://www.blueridgeshoponline.com/c...?categoryId=33

[Shimpy]

Setting up any lathe on a flimsy table top will allow the bed to distort or move to destroy accuracy however slight. Most home shop machinist aren't worried about precision (under.001 tolerances) and this shouldn't matter but should be aware of the limitations of trying to turn with uniform taper or lack of it and surface finish.
Other than the Sears/Atlas 10" lathe which is what I learned on in the early 70's the next step up and a good choice would be a South Bend. I sold the Atlas and got a Jet with 36" between centers and 1 1/2 hole thru the head stock which I needed for barrels. This served me well for many years.

[PoiDog]

About the plastic gears on some lathes from Grizzly: the lathe I have has 2 plastic gears, they are the spindle drive gears. The other gears are all metal.

The theory on the plastic gears is they protect the lathe from damage if you have a crash and slam the carriage against the chuck / spindle.

So far, I haven't had any issues, but I've been careful.

The Chinese mini mills use plastic gears in a similar manner, and a couple of companies make belt drive conversions to replace those gears for mini mills.

Whatever you decide to do, when you buy a lathe try to get one with the gear change levers. Changing the gears to change threads gets kind of old after a while. Maybe you get used to it, I don't know.

Of course, much like cars and trucks, adding features adds to the price.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

PoiDog, the ones that I saw, had all the change gears made of plastic, and a couple in the head, behind the cover. If a person could get them made of HS aluminum, brass, or bronze, then he would have something, and steel, even better. I don't think crashing one would hurt it, as keys should shear, if they are used with steel gears, or even a shear pin. The most that should happen is a stalled motor or a sheared key. The problem is, that plastic will not have the service life of something harder, so their teeth wear out much quicker. Keep them lubricated well, with a grease or oil made for plastics. It doesn't take much.

I have heard of the mini-mills heads going out due to the gearing, but I would say that they were taking heavy cuts with them. They have some larger bench mills out, now, that are made pretty good. I've been thinking about buying the combo horiz/vert bench mill they now have, for small parts.

I had one of those combo mill/drills at one time, and you could take a heavy cut with those. They were belt driven, but the spindle was an R8 taper. The spindle OD was about the same diameter as that of a smaller Bridgeport.

[Gunplummer]

O.K., I will be the idiot. What the heck is a "Shop press"?

[Gunplummer]

Dixi, I think it was about a 12" bed. I saw it in their store when I took the big trek to Allentown the other week. I don't remember, but I think it did not have a thru chuck on it.

[tobnpr]

A small lathe- and by small, I mean bed length, not swing over bed- is great for learning, but wholly impractical for gunsmithing unless you have a minimum
1-1/2" or thereabouts spindle bore.

You can learn on the "small" lathe- I did- but I don't see a practical use for one as relates to gunsmithing. For gunsmiths, lathes are mostly about barrel work- and there, you need a long bed- minimum 32"-36" between centers if you're going to work with a steady rest, or the large spindle bore to work with spiders through the headstock.

I got lucky with an old South Bend- lightly used, and unused for many years. Took several weeks to completely disassemble, degrease, paint, replace the felts and get it back to its prior glory. When I say I got lucky- I mean I didn't know what to look for in a used lathe-but do now. Fortunately for me, I had no surprises. But you can get into real headaches with one...some of which can be simple fixes. But things like excessive bed wear up front near the chuck, worn spindle and/or bearings, or permanent bed twist are issues that can't be repaired. If you're going to consider a well-used lathe, whether "old", or newer- do some research on how to check it out, under power.

If it can't be run under power, be sure the price you're willing to pay reflects the risk you're taking.