January 10, 2013, 12:42 AM | #101 | ||
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Are there any statutes that need concern us that authorize the President to do something troubling by proclamation? Can you think of any past substantive act taken by presidential proclamation?
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January 10, 2013, 12:59 AM | #102 | |
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January 10, 2013, 02:27 AM | #103 |
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Been busy all day just saw the headlines. So crazy Uncle Joe says something crazy and people are getting excited? No executive order can take away any rights. I'm starting to think Obama and Company have stock in the firearms industry.
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January 10, 2013, 05:49 AM | #104 | |
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In reference to this link: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511709 Before putting any faith in those polls, look at where those numbers come from. Here's the link to one mentioned: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv..._20121216.html Here's the actual questions asked & answers on the topic of guns: "QUESTIONS 28 TO 31 BASED ON 602 INTERVIEWS DEC. 14-16. ERROR MARGIN=4.5 POINTS. 28. On another subject: Do you favor or oppose stricter gun control laws in this country? ----------- Favor -------- ---------- Oppose ------- No NET Strongly Somewhat NET Somewhat Strongly opinion 12/16/12 54 44 10 43 11 32 3 8/5/12** 51 39 11 47 10 37 2 1/16/11 52 39 13 45 12 33 3 4/24/09 51 36 14 48 12 36 1 9/7/08 RV 50 31 19 45 14 30 5 4/22/07 61 41 20 36 12 23 3 10/8/06 61 45 16 37 15 22 2 5/12/02 57 39 19 37 15 22 6 1/15/01 59 46 13 39 13 26 2 5/10/00 67 50 17 30 9 22 3 4/2/00 64 49 14 34 13 21 2 9/2/99 63 52 11 35 11 25 2 8/15/99 63 46 16 34 12 22 3 5/16/99 67 55 12 31 10 21 1 10/13/93* 64 40 24 33 13 20 3 6/8/89* 60 28 32 34 11 23 6 **Washington Post-Kaiser Family Foundation *Gallup trend: "Do you strongly favor, favor, oppose, or strongly oppose enacting tougher gun control laws?" 29. Would you support or oppose a law requiring a nationwide ban on [ITEM]? 12/16/12 - Summary Table ----- Support ----- ------ Oppose ----- No NET Strg. Smwt. NET Smwt. Strg. opin. a. Semi-automatic handguns, which automatically re-load every time the trigger is pulled 52 42 11 44 11 34 3 b. The sale of handguns, except to law enforcement officers 27 20 7 71 15 56 2 c. High-capacity ammunition clips, meaning those containing more than 10 bullets 59 47 12 38 9 29 2 Trend where available: a. Semi-automatic handguns, which automatically re-load every time the trigger is pulled --------- Support -------- ---------- Oppose ------- No NET Strongly Somewhat NET Somewhat Strongly opinion 12/16/12 52 42 11 44 11 34 3 1/16/11 48 39 9 50 12 37 2 4/22/07 55 46 9 41 9 32 3 b. The sale of handguns, except to law enforcement officers --------- Support -------- ---------- Oppose ------- No NET Strongly Somewhat NET Somewhat Strongly opinion 12/16/12 27 20 7 71 15 56 2 1/16/11 31 23 8 67 14 54 2 4/22/07 38 28 9 60 17 42 3 5/10/00 38 26 12 59 16 43 3 9/2/99 32 23 9 65 18 47 3 c. High-capacity ammunition clips, meaning those containing more than 10 bullets --------- Support -------- ---------- Oppose ------- No NET Strongly Somewhat NET Somewhat Strongly opinion 12/16/12 59 47 12 38 9 29 2 1/16/11 57 46 11 39 10 29 3 30. What do you think is the best way to reduce gun violence in this country - (by passing stricter gun control laws), or (by stricter enforcement of existing laws)? Passing Enforcing Both Neither No new laws existing laws (vol.) (vol.) opinion 12/16/12 32 49 8 7 3 1/16/11 29 57 5 7 2 4/24/09 27 61 5 4 2 4/22/07 29 52 9 8 1 4/2/00 33 53 7 5 2 31. Thinking about the shooting at a Connecticut elementary school: Do you think this shooting reflects broader problems in American society, or are things like this just the isolated acts of troubled individuals? Broader problems Isolated acts No opinion 12/16/12 52 43 5 7/29/12* 24 67 81/16/11 31 58 12 4/22/07 46 47 7 *July 2012 and previous: Pew Research Center. July, 2012 about “Shooting in Colorado”; January, 2011 asked about “Shooting in Tucson, Arizona”; April, 2007 question asked about shooting at Virginia Tech University. " What I highlighted above is something the linked table in the linked article failed to include - the huge change in that catagory in the last 6 months... Last edited by Hal; January 10, 2013 at 05:55 AM. |
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January 10, 2013, 06:04 AM | #105 |
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crazy Uncle Joe was just floating a trial balloon to see what would happen. A quick read of the reader comments at the end of articles about it on sites such as CBS and CNN shows the public reacting like they found a chunk of feces in a half empty punchbowl. Just some political grandstanding and a testing of the water in my opinion.
I expect when all is said and done we we see more stringent background checks, harsher penalties for straw purchases and perhaps ensuring that all transactions be conducted through a FFL. I can see Obama doing a executive order on that, but not much more. At the very outside would be a reinstatement of the 1994 bill This is nothing new, here is link to a article written back in 2011 concerning Obama and his desire to use executive orders for gun control http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_836138.html
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January 10, 2013, 06:52 AM | #106 | |
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January 10, 2013, 08:26 AM | #107 | ||
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This is an example of a statute which is silent on a matter, i.e. restriction from import on arms without a "hunting purpose", but where an agency is granted that authority by way of regulation. It is entirely reasonable for people to worry that the executive will overstepp his constitutional limits in its effort to establish greater restrictions. My crystal ball does not prevent me to assure anyone that the manner of implementation and substance of a future restriction will be consistent with our understanding of the constitutional limits of executive power.
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January 10, 2013, 08:48 AM | #108 | |
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January 10, 2013, 08:49 AM | #109 | |
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January 10, 2013, 08:56 AM | #110 |
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So, via EO effectively ban foreign made firearms? I could see that happening. You wouldn't see a lot of objection from S&W on that front...
You would have to have foreign invest in plants in the US to meet some sort of domestic content standard then? Could definitely see that. |
January 10, 2013, 09:05 AM | #111 | ||
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Hunting is clearly not the only sporting purpose. The subsequent regulation is a substantial expansion.
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January 10, 2013, 09:18 AM | #112 |
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The one EO he could do is stop all foreign made firearms, high capacity magazines, and ammunition from coming into the country.
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January 10, 2013, 09:27 AM | #113 |
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Isn't Wolf and Tula manufactured overseas? That would be the end of them then wouldn't it if such a EO was enacted?
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January 10, 2013, 11:05 AM | #114 |
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Forgive my lack of knowledge on the powers of the EO, but couldn't an EO simply be issued to automatically deny any NICS check on say any weapon with a magazine greater than 10 rounds or a "military style" firearm (whatever that means)? Could that be done? It's simple and doesn't create a new law, I think. It would also prevent the sale of a large percentage of whatever weapons the POTUS wants to block.
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January 10, 2013, 11:07 AM | #115 |
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Such an EO would block the transfer of probably 70% of the firearms out there.
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January 10, 2013, 12:51 PM | #116 | |
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Administrative agencies like the ATF have quasi-judicial and quasi-legislative functions. Quasi-judicial functions can include things like taking actions to determine if an application for a particular license satisfies the applicable statutory requirements or if a license which has been issued is subject to some sanction because of misconduct by a license. Quasi-legislative functions involve the promulgation of regulations which have the force of law when that promulgation has been authorized by statute and the regulations are promulgated using the proper procedures (e. g., proper public notice and review of public comments). Quasi-judicial and quasi-legislative actions by administrative agencies are subject to challenge in court.
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January 10, 2013, 01:11 PM | #117 | |
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We have no white smoke but there are some more tea leaves coming from the temple:
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...y-tuesday?lite Quote:
Why are the antis demands surprising?
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January 10, 2013, 02:34 PM | #118 |
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Executive orders on gun control
OK, it is happening....time to act yet?
I wish people would wait till at least an idea was proposed. Speculating on what the President might do, when he hasn't even proposed anything yet, seems pointless to me too. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THIS???? NON, it is not just speculation. We all know how politics work. Joe Biden floating the idea of executive orders to change gun laws in this country. This is to gage just how much opposition to the idea there is. If we do not react by calling and writting our representatives it will come to pass. If you have not CALLED, and WRITTEN to your representatives do not complain when you lose your rights! I urge EVERYONE OF YOU to call and write your Senators and Congressman both state and federal to voice your opinion about dictatorial decrees eroding America’s rights. The more Obama gets away with the more he will take from you. DEMAND congressional backbone. Contact your representatives here. PLEASE, do not put t his off, DO IT!!! If you wait…it may be too late! Do not think everyone else will do it. So far they haven’t! http://whoismyrepresentative.com/
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January 10, 2013, 02:53 PM | #119 |
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Short of setting up a tent in my reps yard, Im not sure what more I can do..
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January 10, 2013, 03:26 PM | #120 |
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I just wrote a letter to both my Senators and my congressman.
Going to write my state representatives now. PLEASE do the same!
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January 10, 2013, 04:23 PM | #121 | |
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ETA: Now he says there is a "consensus": http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...6tASjcEO5I6SWM How do you have a consensus when you only talk to one side?
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January 10, 2013, 06:32 PM | #122 | |
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It seems like they will try to push this hard, but in the end, I am unsure just exactly what they will try to do, but by next tuesday we will probably have a more concrete idea...
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With all they have discussed restricting, it is the unfortunate, but yet still honest truth, many of the things I have heard them discuss, such as a mag restiction, or an AWB, will have a small impact, if any, on crime. I say that because the last stats I stumbled on today from 2011 listed deaths by rifles as 323. Im sure that since assault rifles are a smaller part of the rifle catagory, the number of deaths by assault rifle would be a good bit lower then the 323 listed for the entire catagory of rifle. The majority of the deaths were statistically by handguns, at 6220, but that also is skewed because many of these criminals who committed the murders included in the stat were more then likely (article doesnt break it down) intercity deaths related to criminal activity, by those repeat offenders that are already banned from owning firearms, but seldom prosecuted when they are found in possession of one, due to the plea bargin process. Its interesting to note as well, that the same article listed knives as 1694 deaths, and hands,feet, etc, as to have caused 726 deaths, both of which are considerably larger then the number of deaths by rifles in general. I feel fairly certain, that until the government decides to get tough on criminal use or possession of firearms, the crime rate will remain similar. Why? These crimies are not generally comited by those law abiding firearm owners who follow the law and would be subject to more restrictions, so the more restrictions on the law abiding, will have no effect on the criminals. Source for the stats I used: http://www.inquisitr.com/467102/hamm...tats-for-2011/ |
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January 10, 2013, 07:06 PM | #123 |
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On "The Five" tonight they reported that in the past 19 years firearm ownership has almost doubled and violent crimes have gone down.
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January 10, 2013, 08:05 PM | #124 |
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FishingCabin, you've hit on a big part of the intellectual dishonesty of the banners. While shocking, abhorrent and vile, the attack at Sandy Hook, or at Columbine, was still a very rare event. The media plays it up, over and over, and together with the shock value the sheer repetition cements it into people's minds that these are a frequent, exigent problem that requires immediate action.
Ok, but more than 10 times as many people drown annually than are killed by rifles of any kind. i'd wager that of the 4000 drownings, a high percentage are children. But nobody is rallying to eradicate swimming pools. More than twice as many are killed by hands and feet, but nobody wants to ban karate lessons. So the uproar certainly isn't about the number of dead, or even that they were children. As Rahm said, never let a good crisis go to waste. The final piece is: our legislators, by and large, are generally well educated and intelligent, not stupid people. They know that criminals don't obey the laws, by definition and by action. They KNOW that more gun laws will only affect the law-abiding, not the guy who buys his stolen Glock from the trunk of Vladimir's (insert gang name of choice) car. And they don't care. They forge ahead blithely, perpetuating the myth that more laws will somehow stop crazed maniacs. It's the agenda, stupid (not you of course, just borrowing the phrase... ) That is intellectual dishonesty.
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January 11, 2013, 10:05 AM | #125 |
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I personally can't "get behind" any type of gun control proposal. Any gun control is an infringement. Whether or not criminals own guns is immaterial. Whether or not law abiding citizens do is what matters. I am near retirement age and I know that once the anti-gun crowd gets something they want from us they then consider it "a good strart" and then go for more. I have been watching these people for too long to trust them. The dishonesty in the reporting of these incidents should be enough for any of you to realize the true intention of these people. When we brought up "fast and furious" and talked about the innocent people being killed in Mexico they had the nerve to say that republicans or conservatives didn't give a damn about innocent Mexicans being killed, they were just after the President. These are first and foremost POLITICAL CONTROL JUNKIES and honesly believe that we are all a bunch of hayseeds that need their guidance and control in order to live through the day. They don't want to allow us any control over our lives because they don't like the choices many of us make.
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