For those of you that participate in matches that require ...

Big Arm Hannigan · October 28, 2002, 03:01 PM

a pistol caliber carbine and shotgun, what do you use and/or recommend and why?

Jim Watson · October 28, 2002, 03:12 PM

Cowboy or modern?
I don't know of a modern event that requires a "pistol caliber" carbine, guess there might be some on tight ranges.
I shoot IDPA and IPSC three-gun with an AR15 and a Remington 1100. If I had to have a pistol caliber carbine, I would look for a 9mm upper for the AR.

Big Arm Hannigan · October 28, 2002, 03:26 PM

Oops! Should have stated modern. This match requires a pistol caliber because the targets are up close and some are steel.

Archie · October 28, 2002, 10:11 PM

something in the same caliber as your handgun.

Ruger makes a carbine in 9x19 and 40 S&W. Marlin used to, there are some around. I don't know if Colt still makes the AR series carbine in 9x19. It was a bit spendy for a limited purpose gun, in my thought.

Don't count out a lever gun, if legal. They get wiped out if you have to do a thirty round burst, but if it's a shooter's match rather than an equipment match, they do well.

444 · October 28, 2002, 10:24 PM

I have never shot in a match like that but I would probably go with the Ruger PC-9. It uses the same magazines as their P89, and standard capacity magazines are readily available at a reasonable price along with 30 round stick mags.
Another option might be the Kel-Tec carbine if you shoot a Glock since they use Glock mags.
The cream of the crop would be an upper for an AR, assuming you already own an AR. I don't know about pricing, but it might not be the most expensive route. The Ruger PC-9 is not cheap, I am pretty sure it is over $400.
A budget consideration might be a Hi-Point 9mm Carbine. Hi-Point firearms are butt ugly, but my carbine runs fine and exhibits accuracy comparable to my Ruger PC-9 at about half the price.
Then of course as suggested, there are the lever action rifles in pistol calibers. I don't know what kind of senario you are shooting, so it is difficult to know if the slow reloading time would be a factor.

Neil Casper · October 28, 2002, 11:13 PM

The ranges where I used to shoot 3-gun did not want anyone perforating their steel so limited it to pistol caliber.

I bought a Ruger PC9 just for this purpose. Good accuracy, cheap ammo, high cap mags available. I have 10, 15, 20, and 30 round mags for it.

I have used a Weaver 1-3x scope, red dot, or iron as required.
The trigger is not match quality, but better than any Marlin Camp Carbine I ever tried.

braindead0 · October 29, 2002, 07:00 AM

Hmm, as I'm shooting SSR in IDPA.. perhaps this would justify a .357mag lever gun... woopee!

Heck, might as well go hog wild and get a double barrel 12ga that'd sure make it fun!

Big Arm Hannigan · October 29, 2002, 10:05 AM

Thanks for the replies! I am going to start out with our cowboy lever guns, but eventually will get something else. Anybody tried one of those conversion units that go on a 1911 frame?

wakal · October 29, 2002, 10:05 AM

Those Mech-Tech uppers are getting to be pretty popular. I finally broke down and joined the herd with one for my Glock 22. With 30-round sticks, the full length rail, and a PDP3, it is pretty darn slick.

Alex

9x45 · October 29, 2002, 03:27 PM

If you are refering to USPSA 3-gun or SOF, the only rifles that are competitive are AR-15's of various makes. Shotguns are allways autoloaders. Steel is for the shotgun only.

Dr.Rob · October 31, 2002, 06:05 PM

I've been seeing Remington 11-87's set up for "tactical" shooting ie rifle sights or ghost rings, short barrel, extended mag for under $300. If I wanted a NEW shotgun that's the one I'd buy.

If your rifle has to be in a "pistol" caliber, I'd opt for something that uses mags for a pistol you already have... unless an M-1 Carbine is legal?

Low Price:
Hi-Point: Cheap, reliable. Pistol gripped for on ehanded operation. (Downside: no hi-caps, ugly, was used in Columbine shootings, not as accurate as others)

Median Price Range:
Ruger PC rifles: Use Ruger Pistol Mags. Hi-Caps galore. (Downside: heavier than others, no pistol grip)
Marlin Camp Carbines: Use SW or 1911 pattern mags, again Hi-caps galore (Downside: discontinued, doesn't look "tactical" no pistol grip)

Higher price range:
M1 Carbine: Uses GI Mags, zillions of them around, hard hitting caliber (compared to many pistols), collectible, historical, light. (downside: more expensive to shoot, no pistol grip)

High price range:
Colt AR15 9mm/SW-94/HK-94: well made good looking rifles that accept hi-cap mags and have lots of "tactical" features (downside: expensive mags, may be "banned" in your locale, higher prices, taller sights compared to bore.

October 28, 2002, 03:01 PM	#1
Big Arm Hannigan Member Join Date: September 29, 2002 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 29	For those of you that participate in matches that require ... a pistol caliber carbine and shotgun, what do you use and/or recommend and why? __________________ Big Arm Hannigan

October 28, 2002, 03:26 PM	#3
Big Arm Hannigan Member Join Date: September 29, 2002 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 29	Oops! Should have stated modern. This match requires a pistol caliber because the targets are up close and some are steel. __________________ Big Arm Hannigan

October 28, 2002, 10:11 PM	#4
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	The first choice would be ... something in the same caliber as your handgun. Ruger makes a carbine in 9x19 and 40 S&W. Marlin used to, there are some around. I don't know if Colt still makes the AR series carbine in 9x19. It was a bit spendy for a limited purpose gun, in my thought. Don't count out a lever gun, if legal. They get wiped out if you have to do a thirty round burst, but if it's a shooter's match rather than an equipment match, they do well. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

October 28, 2002, 10:24 PM	#5
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	I have never shot in a match like that but I would probably go with the Ruger PC-9. It uses the same magazines as their P89, and standard capacity magazines are readily available at a reasonable price along with 30 round stick mags. Another option might be the Kel-Tec carbine if you shoot a Glock since they use Glock mags. The cream of the crop would be an upper for an AR, assuming you already own an AR. I don't know about pricing, but it might not be the most expensive route. The Ruger PC-9 is not cheap, I am pretty sure it is over $400. A budget consideration might be a Hi-Point 9mm Carbine. Hi-Point firearms are butt ugly, but my carbine runs fine and exhibits accuracy comparable to my Ruger PC-9 at about half the price. Then of course as suggested, there are the lever action rifles in pistol calibers. I don't know what kind of senario you are shooting, so it is difficult to know if the slow reloading time would be a factor. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

October 28, 2002, 11:13 PM	#6
Neil Casper Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 46	The ranges where I used to shoot 3-gun did not want anyone perforating their steel so limited it to pistol caliber. I bought a Ruger PC9 just for this purpose. Good accuracy, cheap ammo, high cap mags available. I have 10, 15, 20, and 30 round mags for it. I have used a Weaver 1-3x scope, red dot, or iron as required. The trigger is not match quality, but better than any Marlin Camp Carbine I ever tried. __________________ "I AM my brothers keeper."

October 28, 2002, 03:12 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Cowboy or modern? I don't know of a modern event that requires a "pistol caliber" carbine, guess there might be some on tight ranges. I shoot IDPA and IPSC three-gun with an AR15 and a Remington 1100. If I had to have a pistol caliber carbine, I would look for a 9mm upper for the AR.

October 29, 2002, 07:00 AM	#7
braindead0 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2002 Location: Canton, Oh Posts: 896	Hmm, as I'm shooting SSR in IDPA.. perhaps this would justify a .357mag lever gun... woopee! Heck, might as well go hog wild and get a double barrel 12ga that'd sure make it fun! __________________ DoD# 2223 Meum scapha volitare plenum anguillae

October 29, 2002, 10:05 AM	#8
Big Arm Hannigan Member Join Date: September 29, 2002 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 29	Thanks for the replies! I am going to start out with our cowboy lever guns, but eventually will get something else. Anybody tried one of those conversion units that go on a 1911 frame? __________________ Big Arm Hannigan

October 29, 2002, 10:05 AM	#9
wakal Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2000 Location: San Angelo, Texas Posts: 317	Those Mech-Tech uppers are getting to be pretty popular. I finally broke down and joined the herd with one for my Glock 22. With 30-round sticks, the full length rail, and a PDP3, it is pretty darn slick. Alex

October 29, 2002, 03:27 PM	#10
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	If you are refering to USPSA 3-gun or SOF, the only rifles that are competitive are AR-15's of various makes. Shotguns are allways autoloaders. Steel is for the shotgun only.

October 31, 2002, 06:05 PM	#11
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	I've been seeing Remington 11-87's set up for "tactical" shooting ie rifle sights or ghost rings, short barrel, extended mag for under $300. If I wanted a NEW shotgun that's the one I'd buy. If your rifle has to be in a "pistol" caliber, I'd opt for something that uses mags for a pistol you already have... unless an M-1 Carbine is legal? Low Price: Hi-Point: Cheap, reliable. Pistol gripped for on ehanded operation. (Downside: no hi-caps, ugly, was used in Columbine shootings, not as accurate as others) Median Price Range: Ruger PC rifles: Use Ruger Pistol Mags. Hi-Caps galore. (Downside: heavier than others, no pistol grip) Marlin Camp Carbines: Use SW or 1911 pattern mags, again Hi-caps galore (Downside: discontinued, doesn't look "tactical" no pistol grip) Higher price range: M1 Carbine: Uses GI Mags, zillions of them around, hard hitting caliber (compared to many pistols), collectible, historical, light. (downside: more expensive to shoot, no pistol grip) High price range: Colt AR15 9mm/SW-94/HK-94: well made good looking rifles that accept hi-cap mags and have lots of "tactical" features (downside: expensive mags, may be "banned" in your locale, higher prices, taller sights compared to bore. __________________ You broke into the wrong Rec Room!