The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 7, 2021, 10:30 AM   #26
ocharry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2006
Posts: 553
i have been following along and there is some good advice for sure....but.... i think for me at this point ,if i had a dog in the fight, i would just request my money back from them or have the CC company get it back or a lawyer and they could keep their ju....uhhh rifle

my reason would be that you sent a defective rifle back to them for legit manufacturing problems and seems they have lost it somewhere in the system.. or so they say...they also will not respond to the customer and i would be afraid that IF i ever get the rifle back and IF it is working like it is supposed to that IF down the road something breaks i would have to deal with this crap all over again

so for me to be made whole again with less head ache, my money back would be the answer i would pursue on this.....i understand it is a gun...BUT it is a faulty gun and these people dont seem to care about that or they would be on top of the problem and NOT leave a customer hanging out to dry

i mean really in 4 months if they really wanted to make you happy......dont you think something would have happened by now.....other than crickets???

i had a similar problem with Springfield....well i should not say that....i should say i had a manufacturing defect from Springfield....and they...Springfield... replaced the gun and it went through the custom shop and back in my hands in 9 days..and 2 of those days were shipping

so for me money back is where i would want to end up.....and then move on

ocharry
__________________
YHS
ocharry
ocharry is offline  
Old March 13, 2021, 10:29 AM   #27
FoghornLeghorn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 2011
Posts: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJeffB View Post
Yeah, let me cover both replies.

White Eagle, thanks for the info, I have that from the website.
HiBC, I have been probably as polite as I ever have been given the building frustration. One of the polite correspondences was indeed to Harvey via email. No response. And the email having not bounced as an invalid address, it's a pretty good guess it was delivered.

It's not the repair time at issue. It's the absolute cessation of all communication. As an aside, I just today saw another thread where the poster has been calling Cimarron and never gets an answer.

Finally, time is running out for my merchant dispute period with the credit card. At this time, I had to file the billing dispute or risk loosing the chance.

Thanks for the information guys

-jb
Sorry for your troubles and hope that you will be made whole soon.

But I'm glad you posted this as I've been in the market for an 1873 rifle.

I was seriously thinking Cimarron as they sell the 1873 with the features I like. But based on your issues I'm scratching them off the list.

Thanks again.
FoghornLeghorn is offline  
Old March 14, 2021, 12:11 PM   #28
GJeffB
Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 47
Foghorn, I was waiting for a resolution before posting a wrap up, but I have to be fair to all involved. First and foremost Cimarron is in central Texas and apparently got whacked by the snowstorm. They lost power, food, water, telephones, every communication possible. So there's that.
Next. The CSR got in touch with me this past Thursday, the 11th. Apparently (I have no reason to disbelieve) the rifle WAS sent to the Chiappa factory in Ohio in mid-January. The factory just didn't know it (SMH). They sat on it for almost 2 months, then denied to me AND Cimarron that they had it despite shipping and receiving documentation. The factory finally located it and returned it to Cimarron with a description "retightened barrel." That's it. No test fire, no evaluation of how/why the barrel became loose, nada. And finally, the Customer Service Rep at Cimarron advises the wood forearm apparently has 2 new "indentations" that weren't there when sent to the factory. So it's pretty certain the problems aren't with Cimarron, but rather with Chiappa. The original Seller, MidwayUSA.com is intervening, and the Cimarron CSR is trying to see if I get money back, or a new rifle, or ... That decision will probably be the telling factor about Cimarron Firearms Customer service.

I just don't want anybody assuming blame on one place or another until it all plays out. Certainly the purchase decision remains your.

-jb
__________________
Spyros: People who talk little listen a lot. Which is why they're wise; it's harder to learn while talking
GJeffB is offline  
Old March 29, 2021, 10:20 PM   #29
GJeffB
Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 47
x-post
3/29/2021, dragging this out absurdly. I'll understand if a mod wants it closed.
I'm *really* trying to keep it objective and not vindictive ...
Midway has bailed: no refunds on guns, it's a drop ship, blah blah. I got it, Midway is clearly upfront, "non returnable item." I don't like it, but it's clear.
Since last update March 11 I've inquired 3 times, including to "sales" asking for a reply from the CSR. I have no idea (AGAIN) where the rifle is. No idea what the damage is [an aside: CSR was to email me 9 pictures of the "indentations," never happened]. I've requested exact replacement, substitute replacements (higher priced), or refund. Cimarron has again gone dark. [sarcasm] perhaps another snow storm [/sarcasm].
BBB complaint filed tonight.

-jb, no rifle, no replacement, no money, no Chiappa, never again Cimarron
__________________
Spyros: People who talk little listen a lot. Which is why they're wise; it's harder to learn while talking
GJeffB is offline  
Old March 30, 2021, 08:04 AM   #30
sparkyv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2015
Location: Deepinnaheartta,Texas
Posts: 292
What a shame. I hope cimarron gets it right, jb.
Please continue with the updates.
__________________
μολὼν λαβέ
NRA Life Member
sparkyv is offline  
Old April 2, 2021, 07:46 PM   #31
claydoctor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 426
For what it's worth, I have heard some disparaging remarks about Chiappa in the past.
claydoctor is offline  
Old April 3, 2021, 01:23 PM   #32
GJeffB
Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 47
I suspect you'll be hearing more shortly ...

-jb, juuust about done
__________________
Spyros: People who talk little listen a lot. Which is why they're wise; it's harder to learn while talking
GJeffB is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 10:28 PM   #33
GJeffB
Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 47
x-posted again

Apparently closing out the thread. This should be the last post on the subject, and I appreciate the patience of all who have followed it dragging out.

My expectations have been, since 12/29/2020, a satisfactory repair of a factory defective rifle. The rifle was “lost" for ~2 months. That has failed. After inadequate “repair” the rifle was returned to Cimarron with ADDITIONAL damage. That was obviously a fail. I’ve asked for a replacement. Ignored. I’ve asked for a refund twice. Ignored. I’ve gone through periods of months without response or explanation. Last update:

March 29 BBB complaint filed and accepted.

March 31 I’m advised by Cimarron that the rifle was *again* returned to the “factory” to repair/replace the fore end damaged created at the first attempt to repair. No reply since.

May 1 response from BBB that they asked for a response from Cimarron and received none. Subsequently the BBB called the business for a response and received none. The BBB is closing the complaint as “unanswered” and will report it on the business for 3 years. The BBB suggests [exact quote] “You may consider legal advice to assist further with your complaint”

Bringing suit across 3 states (my Colorado residence, Cimarron’s business location, Texas, and “the factory” in Ohio) is beyond my scope. After extensive explanations and excuses from Cimarron Customer Service, I felt guilty for being demanding. Now that a formal Better Business Bureau complaint has also been ignored, I feel not so much.

I’m repeatedly asked if I expect to ever receive my property. I must sadly now reply that I honestly don’t know. Regardless of a company’s backlog, I’d expect a factory defect to be run to the front of the queue, perhaps ahead of bluing issues, “doesn’t shoot to point of aim,” and the such. Beyond that, I’d expect a factory return to not be lost for 2 months. And finally, I’d expect a second return for factory damage to be first in line. None such has happened.

I’ve taken up way too much bandwidth. I have never and never will call for avoiding a vendor, so I’ll let all who follow this tale make their own purchase decision. For me … never again.

-jb, YMMV, thanks for following
__________________
Spyros: People who talk little listen a lot. Which is why they're wise; it's harder to learn while talking
GJeffB is offline  
Old May 3, 2021, 02:09 AM   #34
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 15,908
It might be worth a call to your local BATFE office to ask if there's anything they can do. At this point, you paid good money for a firearm that has been taken from you without explanation or compensation. That's sort of like theft. I think there's a legal term for it -- something like "unlawful conversion" or something like that.

The BATFE isn't going to intervene in warranty squabbles, but they should be interested when a firearm is stolen or goes missing.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old May 6, 2021, 09:44 PM   #35
GJeffB
Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 47
Eagle, I'm late replying. I've read your post over and over to craft a proper response. As best I can:

IANAL. But this is clearly a civil, customer service issue, and I think not to claim any sort of theft/conversion. My purpose is to illuminate the customer service of an importer. I don't think they've stolen my rifle. I expect (?) to get it "someday." The complaint is them accepting it as a defective rifle (Cimarron's description). Sending it to a "factory" who promptly lost it, and Cimarron did not follow up on it promptly. Cimarron receiving it back after locating it after a potentially inadequate repair. Cimarron received it back from "the factory" with *additional/new* damage. And did not raise holy stuff with the repair facility. And only after my 2nd complaint did Cimarron return the additional damage to "the factory", apparently to just be put in the usual repair que, no priority after the cluster flops. Cimarron has failed to communicate with me, time and time again. Cimarron has failed to communicate with the Better Business Bureau complaint inquiries. I doubt Cimarron Firearms has "stolen"/converted my property and I can't in good faith allege that to any authority. I can in good conscience accuse Cimarron Firearms of failure to adequately take care of the rifle, promptly follow up on it, reply to my inquiries, and otherwise provide even a modicum of customer service beyond excuses and passing blame to "the factory." Nothing arising to (AFAIK) criminal conduct. Just some of the worst customer service I've ever experienced. Requests for expedited service - ignored; requests for replacement - ignored; requests (2) for refund - ignored. Everything is the fault of a 3rd party ("factory" in Ohio). I am not a factory's customer. I am Cimarron's customer.

The tale told is not to advocate for a avoidance of Cimarron Firearms. It's informational about my experience. Am I a 1 in a million customer issue? Strains credulity to think so. Followers of this cluster flock may make their own purchase decisions.

-jb, not me not ever again
__________________
Spyros: People who talk little listen a lot. Which is why they're wise; it's harder to learn while talking
GJeffB is offline  
Old May 7, 2021, 09:52 AM   #36
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,002
Bet those factory "repair" shops are contracted out by Chiappa and are small operations - hence the lack of response or their very slow ability to repair things.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old May 7, 2021, 10:11 AM   #37
ballardw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2008
Posts: 838
May be time for a trip to your local small claims court for recovery of property.
__________________
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
All data is flawed, some just less so.
ballardw is online now  
Old May 7, 2021, 03:38 PM   #38
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 14,586
Although there may be incompetence involved (there often is), also consider that firearms parts availability in general is difficult right now. Italy (where the Chiappa/Armisport factory is) was hit particularly hard by COVID, so parts for products made there are very hard to get at present. Chiappa in Ohio is just an import warehouse, not a factory. When they need parts that are not in stock, they call the factory in Italy and it gets put on a boat and shipped to the USA, where the ship can sit off-shore for months waiting to be unloaded by the terminal Longshoremen (check the news, ships are waiting months to be unloaded). Last year a customer of mine brought in a Pedersoli Sharps barrel to be installed that he waited almost a year to get (we could have made him one for a lot less time and money). I recently went through this same situation waiting for parts from Asia. So keep up the phone calls and emails and don't despair.
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old May 7, 2021, 04:30 PM   #39
GJeffB
Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 47
Scorch, I've seen some very good advice from you. You comment serves as just 1 more inconsistency in Cimarron's story. Specifically, the very first instruction was to ship the rifle to "our [Cimarron's] gunsmith" for an initial evaluation. That gunsmith is apparently a 1 man contractor located in Brian TX (Cimarron is in Fredricksburg TX). I was informed by Cimarron that their gunsmith immediately determined the rifle to be defective and shipped to "the factory" for repair. No discussion of an import station for parts replacement. Cimarron also described that the *factory* in Ohio provided a repair report that they spent .40 hr on repairs consisting of "retightened barrel." So somewhere along the line Cimarron has upgraded the Ohio facility to a "factory." Since Cimarron originally had the rifle go to their (presumably contractor) gunsmith (Jackrabbit rifles), I can't imagine shipping it to/from Ohio so some yahoo could put a wrench on the barrel for 24 minutes. But then, I couldn't imagine this whole scenario.

WADR, I do appreciate the comment however. I add it to the expanding list of discrepancies I've received. I am continuing the contact attempts, again with no response.

-jb, walking the fine line between patience and run around
__________________
Spyros: People who talk little listen a lot. Which is why they're wise; it's harder to learn while talking
GJeffB is offline  
Old May 8, 2021, 01:27 AM   #40
Geezerbiker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2011
Location: Willamina, OR
Posts: 1,554
Is your credit card company giving you any help?

Tony
Geezerbiker is offline  
Old May 9, 2021, 12:41 PM   #41
GJeffB
Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
Posts: 47
Biker, that's an amazing twist that everyone should be aware of. Back to the beginning:
Rifle is a Chiappa brand, sold by Cimarron, through Midway. Think of Midway as a shooting sports Amazon. Much of what is sold is from other than Midway brand. Up front, Midway is clear "all firearms sales are final, non-returnable." Initially I filed a credit card dispute. But remember where the credit card payment went to - Midway. When I notified Midway of the problem I told them it was a courtesy, my complaint was with Cimarron, but Midway might get sucked in. Midway advised me [ready for this?] that if I filed the dispute, I would be *banned* from ever doing business with them Since my complaint was with Cimarron I cancelled the dispute. Midway then offered to help remedy. After a hopeful email exchange, they let me know I was on my own, they wouldn't intervene. So Cimarron/Chiappa is effectively insulated from a credit card dispute. Slick, huh?

-jb, pretty much thought of all angles
__________________
Spyros: People who talk little listen a lot. Which is why they're wise; it's harder to learn while talking
GJeffB is offline  
Old May 9, 2021, 01:46 PM   #42
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 15,908
I would file the credit card complaint, get my money back, and happily never do business with Midway again. You're not asking to return a firearm. You are asking that a product THEY sold be repaired, or that you be made whole if your rifle has gone AWOL. If Larry won't stand behind a product he sold, he's not someone I want to do business with.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old May 9, 2021, 03:53 PM   #43
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 16,880
If you ever get your rifle back, seek out a real gunsmith.

A friend had one of those Numrich barrels to convert a Rolling Block .43 whatever to .45-70. It was loose in the action. He would still plink a little with it but it mostly sat idle until we finally got it off to the local shop. The gunsmith set back the shoulder so it would screw in tight with the sights vertical. Then he faced off the rear until the breechblock would close. A rented reamer corrected the chamber, and he cut the extractor notch. It shoots quite well now.
Jim Watson is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08648 seconds with 8 queries