The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > The Smithy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 2, 2021, 05:50 PM   #1
dedrevil
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2015
Posts: 42
P320 Failure to go into Battery

So, I have a new p320 build.
-New Sig Frame
-New Norsso Slide
-New PMM Barrel
-New Sig Recoil Spring Assembly
-Re-using firing pin, trigger group, extractor/spring out of my well-used P320 X-Five

From the first round, I have been having failures to go into battery. It's getting better the more I shoot, but since I haven't seen 9mm on the shelf locally in about 9 months, I'm looking for another solution to fix it (it's my current EDC).

I know the problem is narrowed down to the extractor, but I can't figure out why or how.
dedrevil is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 06:02 PM   #2
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 11,083
You’re using a third party slide and a third party barrel with the OEM extractor from your
X-Five? I just want to make sure I understand the configuration correctly.

Does the extractor in question work well in your X-Five? If it does then my guess would be some tolerance stacking problem between all the parts in question. How did you isolate the problem to the extractor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 06:30 PM   #3
dedrevil
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2015
Posts: 42
correct.

I was talking out parts and cycling snap caps, seeing if that changed anything, and it did not have issues without the extractor.

You can feel the point when it binds, or sticks, even when manually operating the action slowly
dedrevil is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 06:32 PM   #4
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 11,083
P320 Failure to go into Battery

Okay.

Not having the extractor means the cartridge rim isn’t forced under the extractor and it will feed easier in terms of just pushing a cartridge into the chamber. But then you can’t extract the case obviously. Assuming this extractor functioned without issue in the X-Five, I’m not sure that test alone confirms the extractor is solely responsible. The other concern I’d have is if you get another factory extractor you might have the same problem (again if that extractor functioned fine in a factory pistol).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 06:49 PM   #5
dedrevil
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2015
Posts: 42
Well, when a round is chambered and when slowing pulling slide back it binds.
I thought it possbily a fitment issue where the barrel locks up into the breach-face, but it only binds when there is a round chambered. I dont feel the binding when the gun is empty
dedrevil is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 07:16 PM   #6
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 11,083
P320 Failure to go into Battery

I’m not too surprised it doesn’t bind when empty.

The barrel chamber, the slide in terms of indexing the extractor onto the cartridge rim, and the extractor all work together when extracting a cartridge or case. That’s why I’m saying it’s hard to isolate the issue to just the extractor as you don’t have an alternate extractor to try. Since that extractor functions fine in the other pistol it may be that it won’t work or will require fitment to work in that particular slide and/or with that barrel.

I’m trying to think of your next step and I’m not sure buying another extractor will solve the issue (at least I can’t say for sure). I like the modularity of the P320, but combining parts from three vendors means you may have to do so fitting to get it to work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 07:37 PM   #7
dedrevil
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2015
Posts: 42
I decided to try it out on the other slide, feels like it binds in same spot. But the x-five never had a failure to go into battery.
The new build is based on a sub-compact slide, I wonder if the longer slide of the x-five had enough reciprocating mass to avoid the problem.
dedrevil is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 07:47 PM   #8
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 23,287
Sometimes "parts is parts" just doesn't work.

I would caution you against trusting snap caps to be dummy (testing) rounds.

Sometimes a snap cap will work where a live round will not.

Not common, but I've seen it happen.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 07:54 PM   #9
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 11,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Sometimes "parts is parts" just doesn't work.

I would caution you against trusting snap caps to be dummy (testing) rounds.

Sometimes a snap cap will work where a live round will not.

Not common, but I've seen it happen.

Fair point. I’ve also had the reverse, where a snap cap didn’t work well but a live cartridge (or specifically in my case a real brass case) worked fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
TunnelRat is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 08:20 PM   #10
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 3,866
Quote:
It's getting better the more I shoot, but since I haven't seen 9mm on the shelf locally in about 9 months
From this I am guessing that you don't reload, so my question is if you are using the same loads, have you chronographed them to see that if it's an ammo/power issue that is not cycling the round properly. The ammo affects the timing. Second, you indidcated a new barrel. Did you plunk test to see again that it is not an ammo related problem? Many of the issues of notgoing fully into battery I've had in the past are due to exactly this. Just another place to investigate.

Is it binding on the lockup without a cartridge? Did you try lubricating?
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 08:35 PM   #11
dedrevil
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2015
Posts: 42
i dont reload 9mm, but it does plunk test fine.

It is lubricated appropiately

Snap caps and live rounds both do it

it is not binding without a cartridge
dedrevil is offline  
Old May 2, 2021, 09:31 PM   #12
Shadow9mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 21, 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,446
It's hard to say/isolate with all the new parts. Generally I try to only change 1 thing at a time when doing upgrades. Not really an option in this case. I'm guessing it's an issue of stacked tolerances between the makers not working. But how to isolate it I don't know. And the bigger question, how to fix it....


This is why I generally stick to factory guns, or factory parts... I'm just not willing to deal with these issues.
__________________
I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.
Shadow9mm is offline  
Old May 3, 2021, 07:50 AM   #13
claydoctor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 429
I was having feed problems recently with two of my .38 Super pistols. Finally deduced it was the Armscor ammunition I was using. If you can find another brand of 9mm ammo, try that.
claydoctor is offline  
Old May 8, 2021, 12:30 AM   #14
dedrevil
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2015
Posts: 42
I probably just need to bite the bullet, and buy some ammo and hit the range.
It was getting better the more I shot, just hard to fork out the cash at $0.50 a round, and even less willing to pull the trigger at that price lol
dedrevil is offline  
Old May 8, 2021, 12:45 AM   #15
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 23,630
Quote:
I'm looking for another solution to fix it (it's my current EDC).
You're carrying a frankengun you know to be unreliable?
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old May 8, 2021, 10:48 AM   #16
dedrevil
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2015
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
You're carrying a frankengun you know to be unreliable?
Mean what I know

lol, I tried to shorthand that part and it didn't make sense, my bad.

It's my EDC build, it's what I want to carry every day, and that's why I'm looking for help so I can start carrying it. Getting too warm to carry my 92 in a shoulder rig under a jacket.

I had surgery right before I posted the original post, and was hoping to work on it while recovering.

But, by next week, I should be good to get out to the range; maybe I'll try to capture the malfunction on video.
dedrevil is offline  
Old May 8, 2021, 02:27 PM   #17
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 23,630
Ok, that makes more sense.

I'd want to do a good bit of shooting with that gun once it seems to be functional. Various kinds of ammo, especially a decent amount of the ammo you intend to carry. Definitely including some one-hand shooting, (weak hand too), to make sure it's reliable.

Normally when one buys a gun, they can assume that the manufacturer (if it's a reputable one) did a lot of testing to make sure the design is reliable before taking it to market. Even then, we often see some "teething problems" on new introductions.

What you've done is basically come up with a new design by putting together a collection of parts from different manufacturers. Your gun may not be a one-of-a-kind, but it's certainly one of a small group of guns in that configuration. When Norsso tested that slide, did they test it with a PMM barrel? We don't know. If they did, how much did they test it, and with how many kinds of ammunition?

You're now the manufacturer, for practical purposes, and you'll want to do just like the manufacturer did--test the gun extensively to make sure it is reliable. It's one thing to build up a gun for fun at the range, but when you want it to be a self-defense gun, the reliability requirement is definitely a lot more important.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old May 11, 2021, 10:31 PM   #18
dedrevil
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2015
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
Ok, that makes more sense.

I'd want to do a good bit of shooting with that gun once it seems to be functional. Various kinds of ammo, especially a decent amount of the ammo you intend to carry. Definitely including some one-hand shooting, (weak hand too), to make sure it's reliable.

Normally when one buys a gun, they can assume that the manufacturer (if it's a reputable one) did a lot of testing to make sure the design is reliable before taking it to market. Even then, we often see some "teething problems" on new introductions.

What you've done is basically come up with a new design by putting together a collection of parts from different manufacturers. Your gun may not be a one-of-a-kind, but it's certainly one of a small group of guns in that configuration. When Norsso tested that slide, did they test it with a PMM barrel? We don't know. If they did, how much did they test it, and with how many kinds of ammunition?

You're now the manufacturer, for practical purposes, and you'll want to do just like the manufacturer did--test the gun extensively to make sure it is reliable. It's one thing to build up a gun for fun at the range, but when you want it to be a self-defense gun, the reliability requirement is definitely a lot more important.
On semi's I normally do atleast 200 rounds of break in (sometimes more depending on if I had failures during break-in), and if ammo wasnt the way it is right now I would still be putting rounds down range instead of posting.

Just was hoping someone might have the magic answer and I could save a lot of money. Damn panic buyers. lol
dedrevil is offline  
Old May 12, 2021, 09:04 AM   #19
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 15,914
The staff thinks that this question might get a better response in the discussion area for gunsmithing, so I'm moving it to The Smithy.
__________________
NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor
NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO
1911 Certified Armorer
Jeepaholic
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2020 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08047 seconds with 10 queries