What causes a primer not to work

Dano4734 · November 4, 2018, 07:39 PM

I shot probably 50 of my cowboy loads in my 45-70 today using the Buffalo bore case with a small rifle primer . I get great accuracy and doesn’t kill my shoulder. Today I got one that was a click, no go. Nice deep impression so it’s not the gun. Powder never ignited at all. Doesn’t this happen often? Cci small rifle primer not mags. I use these cases just for target. I hunt using starline brass and large rifle primers but these Buffalo Bore cases always worked for me shooting paper really well

Rimfire5 · November 4, 2018, 08:28 PM

There are a number of reasons a primer won't fire.
A defective primer is rare, but it does happen, especially if there was damage to the anvil. I am not sure, after loading 43,000 rounds in the last 8 years, that I have ever encountered a damaged primer anvil. But I have had a few primers fail, less than 5 due to my own actions.

The reasons that a primer failed to fire that I can attest to causing:
I have found that if any oil or fluid gets onto the primer face - maybe when the brass was cleaned and not thoroughly dry before priming and left with the base down so any fluid can drain into the primer hole - the primer can occasionally become fouled and fail to fire. You only do that once before you make sure it doesn't happen again.

Also primers that are not seated deep enough in the primer pocket can absorb the firing pin strike as the force of the firing pin drives the primer into the final seating position. The primer will have a deep firing pin mark but it won't have fired. I can attest that a second strike will normally get ignition because the primer will get the full force of the firing pin when it is fully seated at the bottom of the primer pocket.
I have caused both types of failures, mostly because I was impatient in getting rounds loaded or not fully observant when seating a primer.

Dano4734 · November 4, 2018, 08:45 PM

Thank you I bet I didn’t seat it properly . I will check every one now. Thank you so much

std7mag · November 5, 2018, 05:22 AM

I actually had my first failure to fire yesterday.
280 Rem doing load development.
First one since i've started reloading.

Dano4734 · November 5, 2018, 03:18 PM

Std7. I am so sorry, i must have jinxed you somehow

std7mag · November 5, 2018, 03:52 PM

Lol, i highly doubt that...
Been reloading 5-6 years, i know a new timer in the grand scheme, loaded/shot thousands of rounds. Rifle and pistol. And yesterday was the first one. I can't complain.

Can't tell ya the number of "factory" rounds that never went boom.

I did have a good laugh at the range when it happened.
Click... Looked over at my daughter and gave her the Marvin Martian, " there was supposed to be a big kaboom!".

F. Guffey · November 5, 2018, 04:21 PM

Quote:

What causes a primer not to work

I do not know: I received a phone call from a range, they wanted to know what was wrong with R-P ammo. I asked them if the had a box of R-P ammo, they said yes so I tole them the number for Remington was on the box; call them.
That after noon 5 failed to fire 30/06 rounds show up here with 5 cases that did fire. Seems the shooter purchased a new rifle with 2 boxes of 30/06 Remington ammo.

He claimed he attempted to fire the 5 rounds that failed to fire at least three times and then he allowed ever shooter at the rang with 30/06 rifles to have a go at them. The minimum firing strikes on each of the 5 failed to fire rounds had to be at least 6 strikes.

I checked all of the 15 cases that fired, I thought they were magnificent cases.

And then I pulled the 5 failed to fire rounds down and measured/weighed the powder, bullets cases and primers.; again I was impressed. The measurments came out to be the same length from the shoulder to the case head as the fired cases.

When finished I installed the primers back into the same cases they were removed from and then chambered the cases into one of my M1917 one at a time and then pulled the trigger. All of the primers busted off even after all of the abuse from other attempts.

I believe my M1917s would have busted the primers at the range after 6 attempts at firing.

It is said everyone left the range bad mouthing R-P and their ammo.

F. Guffey

Average Joe · November 5, 2018, 06:50 PM

Like anything else, the manufacturing process is not that precise. Sometimes things get off kilter, things happen... But, mostly it's because of a primer that's not seated deep enough, the second hit will let you know...

LE-28 · November 5, 2018, 07:35 PM

If you seat them to deep you can crush the pellet in the primer and when the firing pin hits the primer there is nothing there to be impacted.
You want them about three thousands below flush to the head of the case.

RC20 · November 5, 2018, 07:54 PM

Never crushed one.

Actually they have tiny little feet that are supposed to bend. 3 of em. Until Unclenick brought it up I had no clue, takes a magnify glass and a right angle.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Boxe...MMzKrLoYjiCOM:

Try to measure one and you have to know if you are on the feet or not (not the right tech term).

A slow moving firing pin (gummed up) can also cause that.

Its not just the dent, its the sharp impact.

November 4, 2018, 07:39 PM	#1
Dano4734 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2014 Posts: 730	What causes a primer not to work I shot probably 50 of my cowboy loads in my 45-70 today using the Buffalo bore case with a small rifle primer . I get great accuracy and doesn’t kill my shoulder. Today I got one that was a click, no go. Nice deep impression so it’s not the gun. Powder never ignited at all. Doesn’t this happen often? Cci small rifle primer not mags. I use these cases just for target. I hunt using starline brass and large rifle primers but these Buffalo Bore cases always worked for me shooting paper really well

November 5, 2018, 05:22 AM	#4
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I actually had my first failure to fire yesterday. 280 Rem doing load development. First one since i've started reloading. __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

November 5, 2018, 03:52 PM	#6
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	Lol, i highly doubt that... Been reloading 5-6 years, i know a new timer in the grand scheme, loaded/shot thousands of rounds. Rifle and pistol. And yesterday was the first one. I can't complain. Can't tell ya the number of "factory" rounds that never went boom. I did have a good laugh at the range when it happened. Click... Looked over at my daughter and gave her the Marvin Martian, " there was supposed to be a big kaboom!". __________________ When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!! "Januarary 6th insurrection". Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...

November 5, 2018, 07:54 PM	#10
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	Never crushed one. Actually they have tiny little feet that are supposed to bend. 3 of em. Until Unclenick brought it up I had no clue, takes a magnify glass and a right angle. https://www.google.com/search?q=Boxe...MMzKrLoYjiCOM: Try to measure one and you have to know if you are on the feet or not (not the right tech term). A slow moving firing pin (gummed up) can also cause that. Its not just the dent, its the sharp impact. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

November 4, 2018, 08:28 PM	#2
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	There are a number of reasons a primer won't fire. A defective primer is rare, but it does happen, especially if there was damage to the anvil. I am not sure, after loading 43,000 rounds in the last 8 years, that I have ever encountered a damaged primer anvil. But I have had a few primers fail, less than 5 due to my own actions. The reasons that a primer failed to fire that I can attest to causing: I have found that if any oil or fluid gets onto the primer face - maybe when the brass was cleaned and not thoroughly dry before priming and left with the base down so any fluid can drain into the primer hole - the primer can occasionally become fouled and fail to fire. You only do that once before you make sure it doesn't happen again. Also primers that are not seated deep enough in the primer pocket can absorb the firing pin strike as the force of the firing pin drives the primer into the final seating position. The primer will have a deep firing pin mark but it won't have fired. I can attest that a second strike will normally get ignition because the primer will get the full force of the firing pin when it is fully seated at the bottom of the primer pocket. I have caused both types of failures, mostly because I was impatient in getting rounds loaded or not fully observant when seating a primer.

November 4, 2018, 08:45 PM	#3
Dano4734 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2014 Posts: 730	Thank you I bet I didn’t seat it properly . I will check every one now. Thank you so much

November 5, 2018, 03:18 PM	#5
Dano4734 Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2014 Posts: 730	Std7. I am so sorry, i must have jinxed you somehow

November 5, 2018, 06:50 PM	#8
Average Joe Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2005 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,325	Like anything else, the manufacturing process is not that precise. Sometimes things get off kilter, things happen... But, mostly it's because of a primer that's not seated deep enough, the second hit will let you know...

November 5, 2018, 07:35 PM	#9
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	If you seat them to deep you can crush the pellet in the primer and when the firing pin hits the primer there is nothing there to be impacted. You want them about three thousands below flush to the head of the case.