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Old April 18, 2018, 06:29 PM   #1
Venom1956
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How is the case hardening on the desert eagle?

I gave my father my polished chrome desert eagle and I think the only one that will make him jealous is the new casehardened one.

Anyone have any details on how its done on the desert eagle and or how it holds up? Is it real or fake just curious. If it isn't well done I might just stick with the black.
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Old April 21, 2018, 06:12 PM   #2
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After reading this I found a write-up on the DE "Case hardened" weapon.

I have two color case hardened 1911's which are beautiful, treasures (They really should differentiate, case hardening is typically a dull gray color, "Color Case Hardening" is similar but has the fire and smoke appearance, plus, I've read that many guns that are sold as color case hardened are actually just chemically finished to look like true CCH).

The article said the DE's are true case hardened handguns, so yes, they are unique and no one at the range will have an identical one, as no two are alike.
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Old April 21, 2018, 08:43 PM   #3
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There is case colored hardening and then there is case coloring; two different procedures........are you sure you're talking about hardening ?
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Old April 22, 2018, 08:49 AM   #4
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Turnbull has done the color case hardening on Desert Eagle 1911s, I would not be surprised if they also do the same treatment on the Desert eagle.
if this is true, then is promises to be outstanding work. Turnbull is simply the best for case hardening.
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Old April 26, 2018, 10:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
are you sure you're talking about hardening ?
Case hardening, also known as "pack hardening", or a better term "carburizing", has been around thousands of years. It's done to harden the surface of parts while retaining the ductility and strength of the core.

But "Color case hardening" is a particular method of carburizing using old dried bone and leather packed with the steel parts in a metal box and held at carburizing temperature for a time, and then the contents are dumped into a quenching water which has air bubbling up through it. They come back out of the water with bright colors of blue and orange and red, and a surface up to the low sixties rockwell hardness.

Rumor has it that there are ways to chemically color steel so it looks like real case hardening but the surface is not hard, dishonest, in my opinion.
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CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.
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Old April 27, 2018, 07:01 AM   #6
David R
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We case hardened machined parts in college. The item was put in a pot of red hot sianude. (sp?). After a short time it was quenched in water.

Worked well.

David

Cyanide ?

Edit: surface and part were hard. Nice looking job and the pullers I made held up since 1979.

Last edited by David R; April 27, 2018 at 07:43 AM.
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Old April 27, 2018, 07:35 AM   #7
FITASC
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Quote:
Rumor has it that there are ways to chemically color steel so it looks like real case hardening but the surface is not hard,
Correct, I believe it uses a cyanide process, which is why I was asking.
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Old April 29, 2018, 09:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Correct, I believe it uses a cyanide process, which is why I was asking.
A cyanide bath can produce carburized surfaces ready to quench, after which it's a case hardened surface, but I thought it was some other thing they did to make faked color case hardening. Some underhanded method.

I've never heard of a cyanide bath for color case hardening but it could be.

I was writing about traditional color case hardening using bone and leather, which produces actual surface hardening in a quench injecting air.
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CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.
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Old April 29, 2018, 09:52 PM   #9
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I learned more on this;

"Color casehardening requires more care. In color casehardening the parts need to be immersed in the carbon material in a sealed container and the temperature is critical for if it is too high the colors will be poor and washed out. Few people know it, but it is actually possible to get very good colors under the critical range; however, if this is done you are not really casehardening, just coloring. I have found that temperatures should be close to the 1400 degree F mark. When the temperature climbs much over 1450 the colors seem to be rather poor. Just as important is the process used to quench the parts. If air contaminates the parts before they hit the quench the colors will be spoiled. For this reason it is very important to make sure that a method is devised to allow the parts to be moved directly from the crucible to the quench as quickly as possible. For this reason I have devised the following crucible seen in the photograph below."

I watched a video of an Italian replica gun maker "Color case hardening", but the quench colors looked more like about 1100 degrees, maybe 1200. At that temperature there can't be any hardening, though it's been an argument between myself and an employee years ago.

The paragraph I show above was taken from an article on color case hardening I found in a model engine forum, the author of the extensive post shows some samples of what he does and it's interesting enough that I'd like to buy a good electric furnace. I'd post the URL but it might be against the rules.
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CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.
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Old April 29, 2018, 11:45 PM   #10
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The DE colors are a chemical process.
Pretty, though.
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Old April 30, 2018, 05:29 AM   #11
mikejonestkd
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one more time:

DE has used Turnbull for the color case hardening on their 1911 series. I would not be surprised if they use the same process on the Desert Eagle series.

https://www.magnumresearch.com/magnu...t-eagle-1911s/

I highly doubt that the case hardening on the new Desert eagle is a chemical finish
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Old April 30, 2018, 07:30 AM   #12
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I highly doubt that ANY modern firearm is color case hardened. Why? Because color case hardening is a process that was used to harden the outer surfaces at a time before the entire body of a frame or slide was fully heat treated for hardness. As far as I know, all modern firearms are fully heat treated, which makes color case hardening not only redundant, but possibly harmful in that the temperatures needed to accomplish true color case hardening may reverse the effects of the heat treatment.

The colors on modern firearms are not the result of case hardening, which is why the modern process is referred to as "case coloring" rather than "color case hardening."

Quote:
Originally Posted by HisSoldier
Rumor has it that there are ways to chemically color steel so it looks like real case hardening but the surface is not hard, dishonest, in my opinion.
It's dishonest only if they use case coloring and call it color case hardening. If they call it what it is, there's no dishonesty.
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Old April 30, 2018, 07:41 AM   #13
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It may be faux color case hardening and in reality an acid bath like what Ruger does with its single action revolvers. That is certainly easier than what Turnbull does which is genuine color case hardening.
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Old April 30, 2018, 10:26 AM   #14
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One more time-
The colors on the one I had here were chemically done, confirmed by the maker that sent it.
Feel free to call & ask them.
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Old April 30, 2018, 03:23 PM   #15
Venom1956
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Thanks d.

I'm curious how well it will hold up not sure if it's worth the investment. Didn't the chemicals make RUGERS rust really easily vs straight bluing?

Sorry about confusing everyone with the color case hardened thing I didn't think it would be an issue.
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Old April 30, 2018, 04:05 PM   #16
DPris
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All case colors are vulnerable to either fading eventually or wearing off.
The chemically-induced types have gotten quite good, but are only a surface finish & can wear.

The colors on the DE I had here were very nice, it took me two days to do justice to the gun in photography, and I can't say how "fragile" they were, but I was very careful not to scratch or ding the pistol while I had it.

Over time, any chemical process's colors will wear with holster use & in those areas where steel rubs against steel.

Ruger's early Vaquero process acquired a rep for rusting, but I never saw it myself.

I didn't ask who did the colors for MR, but not done in their normal facility.

The gun is quite striking, if you're seriously interested.
Also quite accurate at 25 yards.
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Old May 1, 2018, 04:52 PM   #17
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I emailed Magnum Research concerning the outsource vendor for the finish.

They are not using Turnbull for the case hardening on the Desert Eagle.

They are using https://www.tylergunworks.com/
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Old May 3, 2018, 06:37 PM   #18
Venom1956
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D,

I'm sure you know but in case others don't the polished desert eagle looks nice it holds up against wear surprisingly well also cleans up very easily since it's so smooth.

I do try and keep it looking nice it still gets used. I'm worried that the case hardening will wear less gracefully then the polished guns.
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Old May 3, 2018, 07:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venom1956
I do try and keep it looking nice it still gets used. I'm worried that the case hardening will wear less gracefully then the polished guns.
Once again, just because I'm "that guy" who gets obsessive about not calling things something that they aren't, it isn't "case hardening." It's "case coloring," meaning it's a finish treatment intended to replicate the appearance of charcoal and bone case hardening. Mikejonestkd learned that the manufacturer uses Tyler Gun Works. From Tyler's web site:

Quote:
Color Case
We strive to provide a Color Case finish with a superior level of elegance for the true firearm connoisseur.The Color Case is a process can add the look of elegance when done by a professional.

Here at Tyler Gun Works we are able to Color Case items other can't do to our ability to work at lower temps in the 1200 degree range. Most of the newer receivers made today are made of pre-heat treated steel. Working at low temps gives us the ability to bring you the Colors you deserve without double heat treating your steel. Even at these lower temps we still take all precautions and solid block each receiver to prevent against warping.
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Old May 4, 2018, 02:32 AM   #20
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Yeah, it isn't traditional case hardening, as I said earlier.
It'll wear at friction points, but no way to predict how soon.
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