Need help identifying Enfield No4 MK1

biologicole · June 30, 2012, 05:09 PM

Hello everyone, I am the proud new owner of a No.4 MK1 and am pretty much cluless about identifying anything about it. I wasn't planning to buy one, but for $115 I couldn't walk away without it. Anyhow, the left side of the receiver is marked No.4 MK1 and there is a small BNP on top of the receiver. On the left side of the strap (?) there is a date 1942, serial 13xxx and what looks like an M over U (or maybeYI over U) and what looks like a very wide "v" (almost like a flying wedge). The bolt handle has a serial C24xxxA on the back side. It has a Zamak (?) gray buttplate. There are numerous other small proofmark symbols and small letters (303, BNP, 18.5, 222", IS PER) on the end of the barrel. There are other markings on barrel bands and stuff but nothing that really stands out. The magazine has a serial number that is different from the bolt and receiver, but it is so faint I can hardly read it.

Could someone please tell me a little about this rifle?

I'm really interested now that I've brought it home. By the way, I acquired some 303 British reloading dies in a trade several years ago, so I'll probably be reloading for it pretty soon.

Thanks for the help.

James K · June 30, 2012, 07:51 PM

The BNP and the .303 2.222, 15 tons per in [ ] are the British commercial proof marks, put on when the gun was sold out of military stores, probably in the 1950s or 1960s. BNP is Birmingham Nitro Proof; caliber is .303, case length 2.222 inches and the normal working pressure is 15 tons per inch squared (square inch).

The one mark is probably the broad arrow, the British military property mark, on the other marks I would have to see a picture.

Jim

biologicole · July 4, 2012, 10:11 AM

I tried taking pictures but I can't get my camera to focus on small objects like the serial numbers. Right now it's completely disassembled for cleaning. I'll post some pics when I get it put back together.

LkWd_Don · July 4, 2012, 01:54 PM

Here is a site that you can find some information as to the markings on it.
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/ph...fieldpics.html

I tried to find some info for you on http://www.enfield-rifles.com/ but it is difficult to find anything there without taking a couple more hours looking.

I myself have one, but mine is Identified as having been a CIA rifle during its time in Government hands.

RJay · July 4, 2012, 06:11 PM

CIA rifle?. I'm not familial with the term, what makes it a CIA rifle?

LkWd_Don · July 5, 2012, 06:43 PM

The additional identification engraved on the left side of it is why I say it was a CIA rifle.

Meaning it was one of the many that the US Government purchased for the C.I.A.'s use.
The lines of engraved information are:
C.I.A. Georgia VT.
Cal .303 ENGLAND
SER: MK41xxxx

It still has the other Enfield markings in the places you would expect, which tell me it was built in 1943 and that its original serial number is AFxxxx

RJay · July 5, 2012, 07:32 PM

hmmm, I wonder if it could also mean Century International Arms, the name of the importer that is required since 1968? Could be.

. To the best of my knowledge the Central Intelligence Agency did not advertise by stamping the firearms they purchased.

LkWd_Don · July 5, 2012, 08:15 PM

That is very possible, I had not considered that Century International Arms operates out of Georgia VT and would be known under a different name there, when all information about them will direct you to Delray Beach, FL.

But now that I look them up in that way, I am finding a Century Arms Inc in Georgia, VT.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

biologicole · July 7, 2012, 03:42 PM

OK, I got it cleaned and put back together. Here's some pictures:

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TABING · July 7, 2012, 11:29 PM

Those sights look like Mk 2. Mark 2 sights are often added to Mk1 rifles.

wogpotter · July 8, 2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

I myself have one, but mine is Identified as having been a CIA rifle during its time in Government hands.

This pops up from time to time, (the "secret CIA rifles" thing).

Century used to be Century International Arms. (CIA) Then the name was changed to changed to "Century Arms International" (CAI). I don't know why, but I might guess!

Whenever the "Secret CIA" thing comes up I always ask this:
If it was so secret why on earth would they go to the trouble of finding deniable foriegn import rifles then stamp them with CIA? Wouldn't that be a bit of a giveaway, like having a

"SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL FEDERAL
WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM"

bumper sticker on the van taking the relocated witness to his new, secret location?

biologicole · July 10, 2012, 03:20 PM

OK, the macro setting idea worked. Here are pictures of the markings on the gun. I would appreciate it greatly if someone could tell me the manufacturer and any other information about this gun. Thanks!

Pic 1 Serial number and date of manufacture (appears to have "peened" -- why would they do that?) and the next to the last number appears to have been stamped over - why would they do that?

Pic 2 Markings on the side of the left side of the receiver

Pic 3 Markings on top of the receiver

Pic 4 Marking on top of the metal at the end of the handguard

Pic 5 Serial number on the back of the bolt handle - two numbers appear to have been stamped over

why would they do that?

Pic 6 markings stamped on top of the bolt

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June 30, 2012, 05:09 PM	#1
biologicole Member Join Date: February 23, 2008 Posts: 22	Need help identifying Enfield No4 MK1 Hello everyone, I am the proud new owner of a No.4 MK1 and am pretty much cluless about identifying anything about it. I wasn't planning to buy one, but for $115 I couldn't walk away without it. Anyhow, the left side of the receiver is marked No.4 MK1 and there is a small BNP on top of the receiver. On the left side of the strap (?) there is a date 1942, serial 13xxx and what looks like an M over U (or maybeYI over U) and what looks like a very wide "v" (almost like a flying wedge). The bolt handle has a serial C24xxxA on the back side. It has a Zamak (?) gray buttplate. There are numerous other small proofmark symbols and small letters (303, BNP, 18.5, 222", IS PER) on the end of the barrel. There are other markings on barrel bands and stuff but nothing that really stands out. The magazine has a serial number that is different from the bolt and receiver, but it is so faint I can hardly read it. Could someone please tell me a little about this rifle? I'm really interested now that I've brought it home. By the way, I acquired some 303 British reloading dies in a trade several years ago, so I'll probably be reloading for it pretty soon. Thanks for the help.

July 4, 2012, 01:54 PM	#4
LkWd_Don Junior Member Join Date: May 17, 2012 Location: Puget Sound area WA Posts: 12	Here is a site that you can find some information as to the markings on it. http://www.telusplanet.net/public/ph...fieldpics.html I tried to find some info for you on http://www.enfield-rifles.com/ but it is difficult to find anything there without taking a couple more hours looking. I myself have one, but mine is Identified as having been a CIA rifle during its time in Government hands. __________________ Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement

July 4, 2012, 06:11 PM	#5
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	CIA rifle?. I'm not familial with the term, what makes it a CIA rifle? __________________ Ron James

July 5, 2012, 06:43 PM	#6
LkWd_Don Junior Member Join Date: May 17, 2012 Location: Puget Sound area WA Posts: 12	The additional identification engraved on the left side of it is why I say it was a CIA rifle. Meaning it was one of the many that the US Government purchased for the C.I.A.'s use. The lines of engraved information are: C.I.A. Georgia VT. Cal .303 ENGLAND SER: MK41xxxx It still has the other Enfield markings in the places you would expect, which tell me it was built in 1943 and that its original serial number is AFxxxx __________________ Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement

July 5, 2012, 07:32 PM	#7
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	hmmm, I wonder if it could also mean Century International Arms, the name of the importer that is required since 1968? Could be.. To the best of my knowledge the Central Intelligence Agency did not advertise by stamping the firearms they purchased. __________________ Ron James

June 30, 2012, 07:51 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The BNP and the .303 2.222, 15 tons per in [ ] are the British commercial proof marks, put on when the gun was sold out of military stores, probably in the 1950s or 1960s. BNP is Birmingham Nitro Proof; caliber is .303, case length 2.222 inches and the normal working pressure is 15 tons per inch squared (square inch). The one mark is probably the broad arrow, the British military property mark, on the other marks I would have to see a picture. Jim

July 4, 2012, 10:11 AM	#3
biologicole Member Join Date: February 23, 2008 Posts: 22	I tried taking pictures but I can't get my camera to focus on small objects like the serial numbers. Right now it's completely disassembled for cleaning. I'll post some pics when I get it put back together.

July 5, 2012, 08:15 PM	#8
LkWd_Don Junior Member Join Date: May 17, 2012 Location: Puget Sound area WA Posts: 12	That is very possible, I had not considered that Century International Arms operates out of Georgia VT and would be known under a different name there, when all information about them will direct you to Delray Beach, FL. But now that I look them up in that way, I am finding a Century Arms Inc in Georgia, VT. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. __________________ Lets Unite and REMIND our Government that WE are the source of their authority and that WE demand our Rights be returned, Unabridged, Non-infringed, without denial or disparagement

July 7, 2012, 03:42 PM	#9
biologicole Member Join Date: February 23, 2008 Posts: 22	OK, I got it cleaned and put back together. Here's some pictures: [IMG] [IMG] [IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

July 7, 2012, 11:29 PM	#10
TABING Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: White Mountains, AZ & Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates Posts: 663	Those sights look like Mk 2. Mark 2 sights are often added to Mk1 rifles.

July 10, 2012, 03:20 PM	#12
biologicole Member Join Date: February 23, 2008 Posts: 22	OK, the macro setting idea worked. Here are pictures of the markings on the gun. I would appreciate it greatly if someone could tell me the manufacturer and any other information about this gun. Thanks! Pic 1 Serial number and date of manufacture (appears to have "peened" -- why would they do that?) and the next to the last number appears to have been stamped over - why would they do that? Pic 2 Markings on the side of the left side of the receiver Pic 3 Markings on top of the receiver Pic 4 Marking on top of the metal at the end of the handguard Pic 5 Serial number on the back of the bolt handle - two numbers appear to have been stamped over why would they do that? Pic 6 markings stamped on top of the bolt [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]