Denied at the background check - Page 2

blume357 · July 13, 2010, 07:24 AM

it will be interesting to find out if 'they' actually tell you what the problem was and if you were denied or just delayed....

It is too easy to get bogged down in this.... too many employees just doing their job... which specifically requires them NOT to think.... but follow the rules.

**44 AMP** · July 14, 2010, 10:13 PM

But I think that if you are delayed, there is a set number of hrs/business days that can pass, and if the dealer has not heard from NICS that you are denied, he can sell you the gun.

You need to check on that, but I think thats how it works. And if the NCIS (or whoever) does say DENIED, then there is an appeals process.

I always get them confused NCIS, NICS? Which one is the TV show?

Florida Cracker · July 14, 2010, 10:17 PM

NICS - National Instant Criminal Background Check System

engineermike · July 16, 2010, 03:11 PM

I got my letter from the Department of Justice this afternoon. It says my criteria has been identified as someone who was sentenced to a jail term. If I want the appeal to continue I will have to submit my finger prints to them, they did send me a postage paid envelope to put the finger print card in and mail back. I go the the county Sheriff's office next week to apply for my conseal and carry permit, so I will have them put my finger prints on the finger print card that was sent to me and mail them in.

It would be quit the irony if I could carry a hand gun but not be able to purchase one.

Or worse case the OSBI will not approve my back ground check that they have to do. Oh well, I guess justice never ends.

Mike

riverwalker76 · July 17, 2010, 12:01 AM

Go through the hoops and get a Unique ID Number. It's easy as pie, and takes a month or so. That's just about the only way to make sure you don't get mixed up with someone again.

blume357 · July 21, 2010, 05:39 AM

a permit there is no longer a back ground check when buying from an FFL.... your permit number is all they need.

engineermike · July 21, 2010, 07:16 AM

Good to know Blume, as a matter of fact today is the day i go to the sheriff's office and apply for my conceal and carry. (I assume that is what you mean by permit?) After getting my finger prints taken for the c&c I'll have them make me a couple of extra finger print cards (I have to send them back to the FBI to further my appeal) and mail all my information, requested by the FBI, so my appeal can continue. I think it will be quite the conversation at parties that "I can carry a gun, I just can't buy a gun."

We'll see how it all comes out. But so far they still have not told me why they have denied me.

Mike

dogtown tom · July 21, 2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

engineermike: But so far they still have not told me why they have denied me.

Uhhhh......I know why:

Quote:

engineermike I got my letter from the Department of Justice this afternoon. It says my criteria has been identified as someone who was sentenced to a jail term.

engineermike · July 21, 2010, 08:39 PM

They did not say what my o-fence was that I would have served two years for. If I was gone for 2 years then my employer is gonna be really mad for that time they paid me.

dogtown tom · July 21, 2010, 10:32 PM

They didn't say you (or your evil clone) were imprisoned for two years. Any conviction that COULD have resulted in you being sentenced to more than ONE year in jail would disqualify you from purchasing a firearm.

If you pled guilty or were convicted of felony serial mopery which carried a maximum eighteen month sentence then you are ineligble. Even if you had all but one day suspended from your sentence, you are ineligible.

So far, I've only had one customer get a "deny" on his NICS. He received a first offense DUI ticket that was later dropped. He shouldn't have been flagged as the maximum penalty for first offense DUI in Texas is not one year or more. He got his "deny" the first week of October, 2009 and his appeal was not granted until March, 2010. Yep, five months because some database showed an unresolved charge.

Good luck with your appeal!

blume357 · July 22, 2010, 06:58 AM

and the part about convicted of a crime that can get you a year or more is not actually always true....

I was convicted of a crime way back in 1978 that could have landed me in jail for way more than a year...

I can legally own guns and have a permit to carry...

but I'd bet you good money if I tried to go through the NICS back ground check there would be a problem.... a long time ago I did try... back when there was a waiting period and it got denied....now I just have to show my CWP card.

I'm still trying to find out if your having a permit would bypass the NICS check when buying a gun at an FFL in Ok

ScottRiqui · July 22, 2010, 07:44 AM

And the moral of the story is:

When you're filling out a Form 4473, go ahead and give them your Social Security Number.

n7qvu · July 22, 2010, 08:11 AM

I would suggest NOT giving your SSN unless a NICS check is necessary.
Your SSN will be on file(4473) with that FFL for 20yrs and one doesn't know what kind of security is provided for that piece of paper.

engineermike · July 22, 2010, 09:50 AM

When I started this adventure it was all about buy a hand gun, now it has turned into a mission. I did look into the court system in the state that I live in (As far as the internet would let me go) and I did see where people with the same name as mine are in or had been in serious trouble with the law. I am expecting this to take some time to clear up if it gets cleared up. I am interested to see what the solution will be if my appeal is granted and I am not the person they thought I was, will they come up with a fix or will all this be for just the purchase that I tried to make. After 30 days (If I'm right) if I want to purchase the gun that strarted all of this I will have to go through the background check again and then what, will I be flagged again? I have applied for a conceal and carry license on the same day I mailed in my finger print card to the FBI so I will see what the states background check comes up with. "I'm to far in to pull out now".

Mike

n7qvu · July 22, 2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Go through the hoops and get a Unique ID Number.

River said the above in a previous post.

The Form 4473 has a place to add this UPID in block 9.
This UPID should(per instructions) provide "info maintained by FBI" to assist in your future purchases to be approved.

Sounds like when appealed, it will allow this info to be kept by FBI. Remember all info related to a purchase has to be deleted from FBI w/i so many hrs(24?).

dogtown tom · July 22, 2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

blume357 and the part about convicted of a crime that can get you a year or more is not actually always true....

Quote:

I was convicted of a crime way back in 1978 that could have landed me in jail for way more than a year...

I can legally own guns and have a permit to carry...

So how do you answer question 11.c on the Form 4473?

Quote:

c. Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including prohibition?

If you answer yes, you cannot purchase, receive or possess a firearm.

There are exceptions:
1. You were pardoned.
2. The conviction was expunged or set aside.
3. You had your civil rights taken away and later restored (right to vote, sit on a jury, hold public office)

AND

You are not prohibited by the law of the jurisdiction where the conviction occured from receiving or possessing firearms.
**************************************************

Lie on that Form 4473 and you risk ten years and a $250,000 fine.
I would hope that you are mistaken on your conviction or qualify on one of the exceptions above.

Note that possession of a NICS exempt state permit does not in any way allow the holder to lie on the Form 4473.

cybor462 · July 25, 2010, 12:33 PM

I am in PA and last year when I went to purchase a pistol at a local gun shop I was told I could not buy it. I bought one a couple months before and had no trouble.
I have no anything on my record, I am squeaky clean. I asked why and they would not tell me anything.
I called the state police PICS and was actually able to talk to someone. They told me they could not tell me anything. They said I could appeal.

I was told by the gun shop that this is not uncommon and that I should wait a few days and call again. I did and again I was told I could not get it yet.

I waited a week and called again and again I was told I could not get it with no reasons. I started the appeal process and had to call to get clarity on the forms I was told it was approved.

Kinda weird huh!

cybor462 · July 25, 2010, 12:44 PM

I also want to say that I always use my SS number. It states there are fewer delays if you do.

I was also told that if you use your SS# that you might be held up. I found this out after I had the problems I posted about.

I was told that if someone gets arrested or had any negative thing happen that could prevent a gun buy and their SS# is one number off in any direction you will automatically get held.
I feel that is what happened to me.

Edward429451 · July 25, 2010, 02:42 PM

Quote:

It doesn't necessarily mean you were denied, it means they didn't approve you

That's right, so he just didn't get his gun, instead of of not getting his gun.

and who cares if they have your ss number if you have a gun? lol.

Florida Cracker · July 25, 2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward

That's right, so he just didn't get his gun, instead of of not getting his gun.

Trust me when I say there's a difference between being denied and not being approved.

I look fwd to seeing how this all turns out for EngineerMike. I suspect he will get his approval in the end provided there's nothing truly preventing it.

Smallgame2100 · July 25, 2010, 03:15 PM

I always put my SSN so I know I'll be approved. My name is fairly common. Typical first name and a so/so common last name.

rtpzwms · July 25, 2010, 03:52 PM

I have a VERY common FN and LN. I would NEVER give a gun shop owner my SSN. Anyone who has had his/her identity stolen will most likely not give it out again. I also don't put my telephone # on my checks. The bank knows how to find me. I would apply for a unique id but I've never been turned down for a gun. On line 18a they get my DL# that should be enough. Add the ssn and they have everything on file for identity theft. I am not saying that the gun dealers would do it but if that information is compromised I don't think they will help in restoring my good name. Has anyone else gone through identity theft?

Nastrowie! · July 29, 2010, 10:49 AM

If you're sending in a finger print card it sounds to me like you were delayed not denied.
I often see confusion between delayed and denied. People who don't buy firearms regularly, or its their first time buying and get delayed often times take it as if they were denied. I have been very thorough in my explanation of delayed and still some people just don't get it. Most denials I see tend to do with a sticky divorce, or at least it seems. Otherwise, most people tend to know they can't purchase or posses firearms. It would be nice if the only delays were current pending situations, I've seen regulars get delayed every time, and have for years and will for years and its most likely that same thing getting them delayed every time. I recommend that if you get delayed more than once get that unique personal identification # that you use in box #9 of form 4473.

Mr. James · July 29, 2010, 01:18 PM

With a name like "Bob James," I get delayed each and every time I try to purchase a firearm, which is one reason I've been more prone lately to buying used in a face-to-face transaction.

I was never once told I was "denied;" I was explicitly told "there's a delay." In each instance, I was phoned within 48 hours (usually within 24) and told to come get my gun.

Doesn't the NICS have a three-day limit for resolving delays? I think the language is the FFL "may" proceed after the three-day time limit expires, which would imply a particularly fastidious FFL may choose not to proceed.

A bunch of hooey, any way you look at it.

I wish engineermike all luck and speed in resolving this mess.

engineermike · July 29, 2010, 01:28 PM

Yes sir, that is my point. I was 'DENIED" on July 9th of this year and I still cannot buy a gun nor has anyone called and told me I can come pick up my gun.

I did call the FBI and asked if they had recieved my latest information (Finger print card) and I was told they had and a new letter is being mailed to me. No information on what is in the letter so I am all excited and watching for the mail person every day.

July 13, 2010, 07:24 AM	#26
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	For sure let us know next week when you get the good news... it will be interesting to find out if 'they' actually tell you what the problem was and if you were denied or just delayed.... It is too easy to get bogged down in this.... too many employees just doing their job... which specifically requires them NOT to think.... but follow the rules.

July 14, 2010, 10:13 PM	#27
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,844	Mind you, I've never been through the process myself.. But I think that if you are delayed, there is a set number of hrs/business days that can pass, and if the dealer has not heard from NICS that you are denied, he can sell you the gun. You need to check on that, but I think thats how it works. And if the NCIS (or whoever) does say DENIED, then there is an appeals process. I always get them confused NCIS, NICS? Which one is the TV show? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 14, 2010, 10:17 PM	#28
Florida Cracker Member Join Date: May 16, 2010 Location: Weston, FL Posts: 55	NICS - National Instant Criminal Background Check System __________________ Brian Floridians - Stop paying too much for your hobby - http://groupbuybulkammo.com/

July 17, 2010, 12:01 AM	#30
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Go through the hoops and get a Unique ID Number. It's easy as pie, and takes a month or so. That's just about the only way to make sure you don't get mixed up with someone again. __________________ *Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto* - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

July 21, 2010, 05:39 AM	#31
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	Don't know about your state.... but in S.C. once you have a permit there is no longer a back ground check when buying from an FFL.... your permit number is all they need.

July 16, 2010, 03:11 PM	#29
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	I got my letter from the Department of Justice this afternoon. It says my criteria has been identified as someone who was sentenced to a jail term. If I want the appeal to continue I will have to submit my finger prints to them, they did send me a postage paid envelope to put the finger print card in and mail back. I go the the county Sheriff's office next week to apply for my conseal and carry permit, so I will have them put my finger prints on the finger print card that was sent to me and mail them in. It would be quit the irony if I could carry a hand gun but not be able to purchase one. Or worse case the OSBI will not approve my back ground check that they have to do. Oh well, I guess justice never ends. Mike

July 21, 2010, 07:16 AM	#32
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Good to know Blume, as a matter of fact today is the day i go to the sheriff's office and apply for my conceal and carry. (I assume that is what you mean by permit?) After getting my finger prints taken for the c&c I'll have them make me a couple of extra finger print cards (I have to send them back to the FBI to further my appeal) and mail all my information, requested by the FBI, so my appeal can continue. I think it will be quite the conversation at parties that "I can carry a gun, I just can't buy a gun." We'll see how it all comes out. But so far they still have not told me why they have denied me. Mike

July 21, 2010, 08:39 PM	#34
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	They did not say what my o-fence was that I would have served two years for. If I was gone for 2 years then my employer is gonna be really mad for that time they paid me.

July 21, 2010, 10:32 PM	#35
dogtown tom Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 3,089	They didn't say you (or your evil clone) were imprisoned for two years. Any conviction that COULD have resulted in you being sentenced to more than ONE year in jail would disqualify you from purchasing a firearm. If you pled guilty or were convicted of felony serial mopery which carried a maximum eighteen month sentence then you are ineligble. Even if you had all but one day suspended from your sentence, you are ineligible. So far, I've only had one customer get a "deny" on his NICS. He received a first offense DUI ticket that was later dropped. He shouldn't have been flagged as the maximum penalty for first offense DUI in Texas is not one year or more. He got his "deny" the first week of October, 2009 and his appeal was not granted until March, 2010. Yep, five months because some database showed an unresolved charge. Good luck with your appeal! __________________ Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

July 22, 2010, 06:58 AM	#36
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	engineermike did not get convicted... some one with the same name did... and the part about convicted of a crime that can get you a year or more is not actually always true.... I was convicted of a crime way back in 1978 that could have landed me in jail for way more than a year... I can legally own guns and have a permit to carry... but I'd bet you good money if I tried to go through the NICS back ground check there would be a problem.... a long time ago I did try... back when there was a waiting period and it got denied....now I just have to show my CWP card. I'm still trying to find out if your having a permit would bypass the NICS check when buying a gun at an FFL in Ok

July 22, 2010, 07:44 AM	#37
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	And the moral of the story is: When you're filling out a Form 4473, go ahead and give them your Social Security Number.

July 22, 2010, 08:11 AM	#38
n7qvu Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Overgaard, AZ USA Posts: 153	I would suggest NOT giving your SSN unless a NICS check is necessary. Your SSN will be on file(4473) with that FFL for 20yrs and one doesn't know what kind of security is provided for that piece of paper. __________________ Jerry W. NRA Instructor: Pistol, Home Safety, Personal Protection, RSO, Reloading. NRA Life Member, NRA-ILA Sustaining Member, AZ CCW training org. & instructor, AZ HE instructor. JWsGUNs.com FFL-07, NFA SOT-C2.

July 22, 2010, 09:50 AM	#39
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	When I started this adventure it was all about buy a hand gun, now it has turned into a mission. I did look into the court system in the state that I live in (As far as the internet would let me go) and I did see where people with the same name as mine are in or had been in serious trouble with the law. I am expecting this to take some time to clear up if it gets cleared up. I am interested to see what the solution will be if my appeal is granted and I am not the person they thought I was, will they come up with a fix or will all this be for just the purchase that I tried to make. After 30 days (If I'm right) if I want to purchase the gun that strarted all of this I will have to go through the background check again and then what, will I be flagged again? I have applied for a conceal and carry license on the same day I mailed in my finger print card to the FBI so I will see what the states background check comes up with. "I'm to far in to pull out now". Mike

July 25, 2010, 12:33 PM	#42
cybor462 Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Posts: 40	I am in PA and last year when I went to purchase a pistol at a local gun shop I was told I could not buy it. I bought one a couple months before and had no trouble. I have no anything on my record, I am squeaky clean. I asked why and they would not tell me anything. I called the state police PICS and was actually able to talk to someone. They told me they could not tell me anything. They said I could appeal. I was told by the gun shop that this is not uncommon and that I should wait a few days and call again. I did and again I was told I could not get it yet. I waited a week and called again and again I was told I could not get it with no reasons. I started the appeal process and had to call to get clarity on the forms I was told it was approved. Kinda weird huh!

July 25, 2010, 12:44 PM	#43
cybor462 Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Posts: 40	I also want to say that I always use my SS number. It states there are fewer delays if you do. I was also told that if you use your SS# that you might be held up. I found this out after I had the problems I posted about. I was told that if someone gets arrested or had any negative thing happen that could prevent a gun buy and their SS# is one number off in any direction you will automatically get held. I feel that is what happened to me.

July 25, 2010, 03:15 PM	#46
Smallgame2100 Junior member Join Date: January 8, 2009 Location: New York Posts: 164	I always put my SSN so I know I'll be approved. My name is fairly common. Typical first name and a so/so common last name.

July 25, 2010, 03:52 PM	#47
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	I have a VERY common FN and LN. I would NEVER give a gun shop owner my SSN. Anyone who has had his/her identity stolen will most likely not give it out again. I also don't put my telephone # on my checks. The bank knows how to find me. I would apply for a unique id but I've never been turned down for a gun. On line 18a they get my DL# that should be enough. Add the ssn and they have everything on file for identity theft. I am not saying that the gun dealers would do it but if that information is compromised I don't think they will help in restoring my good name. Has anyone else gone through identity theft?

July 29, 2010, 10:49 AM	#48
Nastrowie! Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: NH, Live Free or Die! Posts: 26	If you're sending in a finger print card it sounds to me like you were delayed not denied. I often see confusion between delayed and denied. People who don't buy firearms regularly, or its their first time buying and get delayed often times take it as if they were denied. I have been very thorough in my explanation of delayed and still some people just don't get it. Most denials I see tend to do with a sticky divorce, or at least it seems. Otherwise, most people tend to know they can't purchase or posses firearms. It would be nice if the only delays were current pending situations, I've seen regulars get delayed every time, and have for years and will for years and its most likely that same thing getting them delayed every time. I recommend that if you get delayed more than once get that unique personal identification # that you use in box #9 of form 4473.

July 29, 2010, 01:18 PM	#49
Mr. James Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 1,521	With a name like "Bob James," I get delayed each and every time I try to purchase a firearm, which is one reason I've been more prone lately to buying used in a face-to-face transaction. I was never once told I was "denied;" I was explicitly told "there's a delay." In each instance, I was phoned within 48 hours (usually within 24) and told to come get my gun. Doesn't the NICS have a three-day limit for resolving delays? I think the language is the FFL "may" proceed after the three-day time limit expires, which would imply a particularly fastidious FFL may choose not to proceed. A bunch of hooey, any way you look at it. I wish engineermike all luck and speed in resolving this mess. __________________ "...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat

July 29, 2010, 01:28 PM	#50
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Yes sir, that is my point. I was 'DENIED" on July 9th of this year and I still cannot buy a gun nor has anyone called and told me I can come pick up my gun. I did call the FBI and asked if they had recieved my latest information (Finger print card) and I was told they had and a new letter is being mailed to me. No information on what is in the letter so I am all excited and watching for the mail person every day.