knight rifles?

trigger45 · March 29, 2009, 08:52 PM

anybody own one? dont see them posted about very much. tell me about them and the full plastic jacket. looking at the extreem.

simonkenton · March 30, 2009, 07:25 AM

Knight makes great rifles. Knight rifles are well known for their accuracy.
The Knight Disc Extreme, though I believe it is no longer made, is a very accurate rifle.
One drawback to the Knight, you have to use those little orange jackets to load the primer, you cannot load the primer directly into the rifle, like you can with a TC Omega, or the Savage.

I saw an ad for the Knight, touting the benefits of the little orange jacket.
This was a full page ad in a magazine, showed a Knight in a bucket of water, the ad said "Takes a soaking and Keeps On Smoking!!"
They had supposedly immersed a Knight in a bucket of water for an hour, and it still fired.
Well, that is well and good, but irrelevant to me.
I have been deer hunting with muzzleloaders for 30 years, and have never had my rifle immersed in water.
I guess, if you want to use your rifle for a paddle for your canoe, get a Knight.

Gbro · March 30, 2009, 07:36 AM

This recent thread in the General forum,

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=339750

Pahoo · March 30, 2009, 11:12 AM

I own and have owned quite a few and they are excellent rifles. The disc and disc-extreme was Knight's step into a so called closed breech or sealed primer. Problem I have encountered is the one stated by simonkenton In the process of using the discs, you had to make sure your alignment was perfect or your striker would not contact the primer. Since then, they have pretty much gone to a true closed breech as other have done and glad of it as did not appreciate seeing the ground littered with the discs. They are well made in just about every way. However, if you are looking at buying one, shop around and see if you can do better on price and features.

Be Safe !!!

Mark whiz · March 30, 2009, 03:02 PM

My 1st and only muzzleloading rifle is a Knight USAK American Knight and it has been a wonderful firearm. It was basically their beginner model along with the Wolverine back in 2000 when I bought it. It still uses #11 caps for ignition and isn't "magnum" load rated...........but I can shoot the eye out of a worm with it out to 100 yards to this very day. I have harvested a number of different types of game with it and it has never let me down. I've never seen the need to replace or upgrade it as I can't imagine anything else outshooting it, so I've just pocketed the $$$ I would have spent on another.

Knight's Green Mountain barrels are typically MUCH more accurately machined than most others and the accuracy I get is the result.

For the most part, I think the higher level Knight's are over-priced - but I haven't seen a more accurate rifle anywhere around me.

simonkenton · March 30, 2009, 05:27 PM

Trigger: for a good deal on a Knight, check out this Wolverine.

http://www.yeoldearcheryshoppe.com/k...ne-p-7166.html

That is a hell of a lot of rifle for $109.
Like the rifle Mark Whiz is talking about, this is one of the classic Knights, is very accurate.
I believe it does use the little orange jackets to hold the primer, however.

trigger45 · April 1, 2009, 08:20 AM

gonna chase this link thanks.

Pahoo · April 1, 2009, 10:22 AM

trigger45
Kind of jumping around, a little. If you are just looking for a good in-line, and keeping the cost down, then the Wolverine or American Knight would be a good choice. Another option is a used Black Diamond by TC. That one will give you the option of using any of the three caps/primers. I say used because they are no longer made. I can find no great fault with any that have been listed but I find that the Black Diamond, is easier to work with and maintain. We teach with all three as well as traditionals and I have "volunteered" to cleaned and maintain them. When you gripe often enough, you wind up getting the job.

Be Safe !!!

klcmschlesinger · April 1, 2009, 10:32 AM

I got the Knight Rolling Block and it doesn't use the little red discs. Green mountain barrel is said to be one of the best in the world. Mine is very accurate and fun to shoot.

whosyrdaddy · April 1, 2009, 01:13 PM

If you buy the Wolverine and don't like the plastic jackets, you can order this conversion breech plug from Knight.

http://www.knightrifles.com/productd...aspx?id=900045

trigger45 · April 1, 2009, 09:03 PM

oh i will!

trigger45 · April 9, 2009, 08:20 PM

well its on order. is the one i ordered the youth model? gonna have to order a stock.

simonkenton · April 10, 2009, 10:13 AM

The rifle listed on that link I posted was not advertised as the youth model.
If it were I wouldn't have posted the link.
I hope you didn't get a youth model, but, I think the only difference is, as you suggest, a shorter stock.
As many Wolverines as are out there you should be able to come up with a new stock, if needed.
If need be, maybe you could put a real thick recoil pad on it.
Let us know how it turns out.

trigger45 · April 11, 2009, 06:46 PM

just talked to a guy who ordered one and he said the stock is not whats short its the little 22 inch barrel. well ill know when i get it and even if i need the stock, ill get it some how.

simonkenton · April 12, 2009, 06:55 AM

Have no fear about that 22 inch barrel.
My Savage muzzleloader has a 22 inch barrel and it is no child's toy!
It is a good looking rifle, accurate and powerful.
It doesn't look weird for having a slightly shorter barrel, makes it easier to handle in the brush.

Mark whiz · April 13, 2009, 07:04 PM

I'm with simonkenton - don't sweat the 22" barrel. That is what my USAK has on it and like I said earlier, it is incredibly accurate with the right load.

tpcollins · April 14, 2009, 11:46 AM

I've had an MH85 for as long as when they first came out (12-15 years). I put a composite thumb hole stock on it right away. I switched to the 209 conversion kit awhile back but always suspected the extra pressure from the 209 unseated my sabot before the charge moved it (it's probably just me).

Last summer I modified the stock with two "piller blocks" which was an addition of one through the trigger guard into the rear tang for extra consistancy in securing the receiver to the stock. Plus I went back to a percussion cap with Knight's newer breech plug that allows me to remove it with the nipple still intact. Shoots great.

trigger45 · April 15, 2009, 08:28 AM

well its the knight wolverine fullsize stock and everything. put my modern weaver 4x on the already installed bases and now it looks like my .270 used too. havent shot it yet. will friday. are 210gr .44 mag bullet too light for this twist? gonna order some heavy lead bullets and some sabots. got to get some more full plastic jackets.

Mark whiz · April 15, 2009, 09:57 AM

Personally, I'd use heavier bullets. My USAK never wanted to play well with lighter bullets so I draw the bottom line at the 300gr level for sabot bullets.
My accuracy standard is with the Hornady 300gr XTP Mag sabots - these are true .45cal bullets in high pressure black sabots. These shoot consistantly all day long and any bullet I try to shoot has to at least come up to their level of accuracy................... plus they are fairly cheap, especially if you can buy the boxes of 50 bullets and the sabots seperately.

The best bullets I've found both in accuracy and performance on game are those offered by Precision Rifle of Canada. Their QT bullets (Cabelas markets them as Extended Range bullets) are just awesome.
Here's their website: http://www.prbullet.com/ Cecil there is a virtual wealth of knowledge on things muzzleloading.

UtahHunting · April 17, 2009, 12:05 AM

Thanks for posting that link. I am buying that rifle right now. That is one hell of a deal!

tpcollins · April 17, 2009, 07:23 AM

Mark whiz - hey, another PR Bullet user! I love these dang bullets, been shooting them since they came out and I've made one 150 yard shot with the 180 grain bullet. I bought some of their new 195 grain (wow, that's really heavy for me) Duplex sabots and plan to see how they shoot when turkey season is over.

What weight PR bullet do you shoot?

Mark whiz · April 17, 2009, 11:44 AM

tp -

I shoot the heavier bullets. The first time I ordered I talked to Cecil there at PR and his suggestion was to use the 400gr Extreme bullets.............. I thought DAYUM that's gonna kick like a mule

. But I went with his suggestion (and ordered some 360 gr bullets too) and he was absolutely right........................I had been shooting the lighter Knight bullets that came with the gun and accuracy was horrible, I dropped in one of those 400s and Boom - instant bulleyes.....................Cecil knows his stuff. And you ought to see the hole that 400gr bullet made on a Corsican ram I took with it - UGLY hole

After a lot of load experimentation, I've found that I can shoot anything from 300gr up with good results as long as I don't try to push the velocity issue.

tpcollins · April 17, 2009, 02:06 PM

400 grains - holy cow! I don't think I could hit anything since both eyes would be closed when shooting those. What kind of trajectory drop do you get between 100 to 150 yard ranges? Thanks.

ffrooster · April 17, 2009, 07:40 PM

I have an LK-93 for sale if anyone is interested...check out the pics in the classifieds....make me an offer!

Mark whiz · April 17, 2009, 08:29 PM

tp -

I really can't say what the drop between 100 and 150yds would be - I've never really shot that big honker past 100yds.
My rifle has high see-thru scope sights on it and when I shoot the big boys at 50yds they have risen high enough to hit the bullseye and by 100 yds have dropped enough to be back on the bullseye.................. so they shoot pretty flat but I'd expect some pretty significant drop by 150 yds - possibly up to 5 inches. Shooting them with 100gr of 3fg 777 powder gives a muzzle velocity averaging 1519fps - if you have a trajectory calculator you can plug in the numbers and at least get a feel for the drop.

March 30, 2009, 07:36 AM	#3
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	This recent thread in the General forum, http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=339750 __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

March 30, 2009, 03:02 PM	#5
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	My 1st and only muzzleloading rifle is a Knight USAK American Knight and it has been a wonderful firearm. It was basically their beginner model along with the Wolverine back in 2000 when I bought it. It still uses #11 caps for ignition and isn't "magnum" load rated...........but I can shoot the eye out of a worm with it out to 100 yards to this very day. I have harvested a number of different types of game with it and it has never let me down. I've never seen the need to replace or upgrade it as I can't imagine anything else outshooting it, so I've just pocketed the $$$ I would have spent on another. Knight's Green Mountain barrels are typically MUCH more accurately machined than most others and the accuracy I get is the result. For the most part, I think the higher level Knight's are over-priced - but I haven't seen a more accurate rifle anywhere around me. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

April 1, 2009, 08:20 AM	#7
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 322	gonna chase this link thanks. __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, .308win,8x57mm, 9x19mm,.45acp, .357mag,9x18mm .380acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

April 1, 2009, 10:22 AM	#8
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	trigger45 Kind of jumping around, a little. If you are just looking for a good in-line, and keeping the cost down, then the Wolverine or American Knight would be a good choice. Another option is a used Black Diamond by TC. That one will give you the option of using any of the three caps/primers. I say used because they are no longer made. I can find no great fault with any that have been listed but I find that the Black Diamond, is easier to work with and maintain. We teach with all three as well as traditionals and I have "volunteered" to cleaned and maintain them. When you gripe often enough, you wind up getting the job. Be Safe !!! Last edited by Pahoo; April 1, 2009 at 10:36 AM. Reason: spelin

April 1, 2009, 10:32 AM	#9
klcmschlesinger Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2007 Posts: 201	Rolling Block I got the Knight Rolling Block and it doesn't use the little red discs. Green mountain barrel is said to be one of the best in the world. Mine is very accurate and fun to shoot. __________________ klcmschlesinger The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, "a flute with no holes is not a flute, and a donut with no hole, is a danish."

March 29, 2009, 08:52 PM	#1
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 322	knight rifles? anybody own one? dont see them posted about very much. tell me about them and the full plastic jacket. looking at the extreem. __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, .308win,8x57mm, 9x19mm,.45acp, .357mag,9x18mm .380acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

March 30, 2009, 07:25 AM	#2
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	Knight makes great rifles. Knight rifles are well known for their accuracy. The Knight Disc Extreme, though I believe it is no longer made, is a very accurate rifle. One drawback to the Knight, you have to use those little orange jackets to load the primer, you cannot load the primer directly into the rifle, like you can with a TC Omega, or the Savage. I saw an ad for the Knight, touting the benefits of the little orange jacket. This was a full page ad in a magazine, showed a Knight in a bucket of water, the ad said "Takes a soaking and Keeps On Smoking!!" They had supposedly immersed a Knight in a bucket of water for an hour, and it still fired. Well, that is well and good, but irrelevant to me. I have been deer hunting with muzzleloaders for 30 years, and have never had my rifle immersed in water. I guess, if you want to use your rifle for a paddle for your canoe, get a Knight.

March 30, 2009, 11:12 AM	#4
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	I own and have owned quite a few and they are excellent rifles. The disc and disc-extreme was Knight's step into a so called closed breech or sealed primer. Problem I have encountered is the one stated by simonkenton In the process of using the discs, you had to make sure your alignment was perfect or your striker would not contact the primer. Since then, they have pretty much gone to a true closed breech as other have done and glad of it as did not appreciate seeing the ground littered with the discs. They are well made in just about every way. However, if you are looking at buying one, shop around and see if you can do better on price and features. Be Safe !!!

March 30, 2009, 05:27 PM	#6
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	Trigger: for a good deal on a Knight, check out this Wolverine. http://www.yeoldearcheryshoppe.com/k...ne-p-7166.html That is a hell of a lot of rifle for $109. Like the rifle Mark Whiz is talking about, this is one of the classic Knights, is very accurate. I believe it does use the little orange jackets to hold the primer, however.

April 1, 2009, 01:13 PM	#10
whosyrdaddy Junior member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Posts: 28	bare 209 breech plug If you buy the Wolverine and don't like the plastic jackets, you can order this conversion breech plug from Knight. http://www.knightrifles.com/productd...aspx?id=900045

April 1, 2009, 09:03 PM	#11
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 322	oh i will! __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, .308win,8x57mm, 9x19mm,.45acp, .357mag,9x18mm .380acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

April 9, 2009, 08:20 PM	#12
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 322	well its on order. is the one i ordered the youth model? gonna have to order a stock. __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, .308win,8x57mm, 9x19mm,.45acp, .357mag,9x18mm .380acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

April 10, 2009, 10:13 AM	#13
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	The rifle listed on that link I posted was not advertised as the youth model. If it were I wouldn't have posted the link. I hope you didn't get a youth model, but, I think the only difference is, as you suggest, a shorter stock. As many Wolverines as are out there you should be able to come up with a new stock, if needed. If need be, maybe you could put a real thick recoil pad on it. Let us know how it turns out.

April 11, 2009, 06:46 PM	#14
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 322	just talked to a guy who ordered one and he said the stock is not whats short its the little 22 inch barrel. well ill know when i get it and even if i need the stock, ill get it some how. __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, .308win,8x57mm, 9x19mm,.45acp, .357mag,9x18mm .380acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

April 12, 2009, 06:55 AM	#15
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	Have no fear about that 22 inch barrel. My Savage muzzleloader has a 22 inch barrel and it is no child's toy! It is a good looking rifle, accurate and powerful. It doesn't look weird for having a slightly shorter barrel, makes it easier to handle in the brush.

April 13, 2009, 07:04 PM	#16
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	I'm with simonkenton - don't sweat the 22" barrel. That is what my USAK has on it and like I said earlier, it is incredibly accurate with the right load. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

April 14, 2009, 11:46 AM	#17
tpcollins Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 558	I've had an MH85 for as long as when they first came out (12-15 years). I put a composite thumb hole stock on it right away. I switched to the 209 conversion kit awhile back but always suspected the extra pressure from the 209 unseated my sabot before the charge moved it (it's probably just me). Last summer I modified the stock with two "piller blocks" which was an addition of one through the trigger guard into the rear tang for extra consistancy in securing the receiver to the stock. Plus I went back to a percussion cap with Knight's newer breech plug that allows me to remove it with the nipple still intact. Shoots great. __________________ What direction did that last shot at Kennedy come from?

April 15, 2009, 08:28 AM	#18
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 322	well its the knight wolverine fullsize stock and everything. put my modern weaver 4x on the already installed bases and now it looks like my .270 used too. havent shot it yet. will friday. are 210gr .44 mag bullet too light for this twist? gonna order some heavy lead bullets and some sabots. got to get some more full plastic jackets. __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, .308win,8x57mm, 9x19mm,.45acp, .357mag,9x18mm .380acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

April 15, 2009, 09:57 AM	#19
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	Personally, I'd use heavier bullets. My USAK never wanted to play well with lighter bullets so I draw the bottom line at the 300gr level for sabot bullets. My accuracy standard is with the Hornady 300gr XTP Mag sabots - these are true .45cal bullets in high pressure black sabots. These shoot consistantly all day long and any bullet I try to shoot has to at least come up to their level of accuracy................... plus they are fairly cheap, especially if you can buy the boxes of 50 bullets and the sabots seperately. The best bullets I've found both in accuracy and performance on game are those offered by Precision Rifle of Canada. Their QT bullets (Cabelas markets them as Extended Range bullets) are just awesome. Here's their website: http://www.prbullet.com/ Cecil there is a virtual wealth of knowledge on things muzzleloading. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

April 17, 2009, 12:05 AM	#20
UtahHunting Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2009 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 428	Thanks for posting that link. I am buying that rifle right now. That is one hell of a deal!

April 17, 2009, 07:23 AM	#21
tpcollins Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 558	Mark whiz - hey, another PR Bullet user! I love these dang bullets, been shooting them since they came out and I've made one 150 yard shot with the 180 grain bullet. I bought some of their new 195 grain (wow, that's really heavy for me) Duplex sabots and plan to see how they shoot when turkey season is over. What weight PR bullet do you shoot? __________________ What direction did that last shot at Kennedy come from?

April 17, 2009, 11:44 AM	#22
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	tp - I shoot the heavier bullets. The first time I ordered I talked to Cecil there at PR and his suggestion was to use the 400gr Extreme bullets.............. I thought DAYUM that's gonna kick like a mule . But I went with his suggestion (and ordered some 360 gr bullets too) and he was absolutely right........................I had been shooting the lighter Knight bullets that came with the gun and accuracy was horrible, I dropped in one of those 400s and Boom - instant bulleyes.....................Cecil knows his stuff. And you ought to see the hole that 400gr bullet made on a Corsican ram I took with it - UGLY hole After a lot of load experimentation, I've found that I can shoot anything from 300gr up with good results as long as I don't try to push the velocity issue. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

April 17, 2009, 02:06 PM	#23
tpcollins Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 558	400 grains - holy cow! I don't think I could hit anything since both eyes would be closed when shooting those. What kind of trajectory drop do you get between 100 to 150 yard ranges? Thanks. __________________ What direction did that last shot at Kennedy come from?

April 17, 2009, 07:40 PM	#24
ffrooster Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: North of Alexandria, Louisiana Posts: 39	LK-93 I have an LK-93 for sale if anyone is interested...check out the pics in the classifieds....make me an offer!

April 17, 2009, 08:29 PM	#25
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	tp - I really can't say what the drop between 100 and 150yds would be - I've never really shot that big honker past 100yds. My rifle has high see-thru scope sights on it and when I shoot the big boys at 50yds they have risen high enough to hit the bullseye and by 100 yds have dropped enough to be back on the bullseye.................. so they shoot pretty flat but I'd expect some pretty significant drop by 150 yds - possibly up to 5 inches. Shooting them with 100gr of 3fg 777 powder gives a muzzle velocity averaging 1519fps - if you have a trajectory calculator you can plug in the numbers and at least get a feel for the drop. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

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