What do you do?..when your best punch didn't work?

[LASur5r]

I know you've seen it many times on TV, but what would you do, if the situation called for an unarmed response. You throw your best and strongest hit on the goblin and he simply shakes it off.
In this case, he then pulls a switchblade, then starts walking toward you with evil intent in his eyes....now what?

In a real situation, when I was still trying to figure it all out...I was confronted by a heavy, chunky, martial artist and friends. He barely spoke English so there was no reasoning...he had friends that flanked me and he rushed in to throw a punch which nailed me hard in the chest.
Thank goodness for being able to take a hit.
He blinked as I didn't really react to the punch. I went to JKD mode and knocked him feet over teakettle with one punch.
His two friends then pulled their switchblades and tried to cut me. I'd like to have said that I beat feet, but I was P O'd and so I tried out my unarmed techniques out on the knife attacks. Stupid, I know. I think I still had issues of proving something to myself...I finally got over that.
By the grace of God, i was not cut. After dragging one guy to the ground and holding the other assailant to a stand still, they called it off and left.

Result? I had to go to the hospital to get my chest looked at because it was really bruised, but my wife treated my major bruise with some old homemade medicines and it disappeared in two days.
A year later, I ran into the guy who nailed me. He was some big shot in his organization and he was doing a demonstration with about 40 of his students. I was there to help a friend of mine, who was demonstrating combat Wing Chun kung fu mixed with some early JKD.
Forgetting the result of the first mix-up he decided to start something with all of his students as back up. One of the guys recognized me and whispered that I was the guy that took the brick breaking punch.
It got quiet and we did our demo and he did his demo without incident...he was throwing daggers in his glare though.

[dragontooth73]

Oh I used to have that as a kid. No, they didn't draw knives but they wouldn't budge. Big haole kids who thought they could take any beating. I learned to run off, grab the best inanimate objects at hand, and come back. 9 times out of 10 they'd start running too. In the other direction.

Thing is, in Tsu Hai Chuan(?) if I remember correctly that really forceful punch is actually potentially more dangerous to the practitioner than the intended victim. Done improperly it will blow the veins out of the guys' arm instead. Or so I've heard, of people who tried to hit masters with very centered heavy ki.

At any rate, what I really wanna know is what those homemade poultices are. LASur5er, can you tell us the recipe?

[animal]

In my case, I planted a steel toe Wellington boot in bad guy's solar plexus. He fell down, coughed and gagged a bit, then got up and came at me ! I am no martial arts hero ... I drew my pistol. Cops arrived and took him away.

[Joe Demko]

In my case, I stabbed him in the gut with one of those pointy green plastic vials that florists use (long and boring story why I had it).

[LASur5r]

Dragontooth 73,
One of the medicines is called Yuck Jow.
Another is Pahk Fah Yao.

The thing is that most of the stuff that my grandpa made is now available commercially.

My wife had one that is stronger than the Yuck Jow. When her father made it, it was a waxy ball about the size of a ping pong ball. It was wrapped in tin foil to keep it moist. You have to steam it in a bowl until it melted to a liquid and then you apply it directly to the wound.

In Chinese medicine, bruises are considered dangerous because some of the "dead blood" could break up and travel to the heart and cause real problems. So the approach is to apply the medicines to the injury so that it doesn't get to be a big problem that could clot the blood vessels.

If you want, I can get it commercially and send them to you. Just let me know what you want to treat or to have it for and i can get the appropriate medication for you. Don't worry, we can get it really cheap.

[Bogie]

I love overconfident folks - Back when I was a kid, I got talked into taking a Karate class - I figured I needed the PE credit anyway, and I'd been playing with a few Fuers and Doers who lived in the dorm... Two of the guys were fair, and two others were either high browns or low blacks. I wasn't that into it - More into it for the relaxation and meditation tho, you know?

Anywho, I'm there, first day of class, and this little guy walks in, and announces that he's the instructor. Procedes to lecture for a while, and then announces that it's time for some demonstrations. There's a coupla flashy things involving much waving of feet and hands, then he requested the largest guy in the class to come forward. Hey, I'm not proud... He does some more kickin' and wavin' and bouncin' around, and I think I'm doing a pretty fair impression of dodging him. I'm starting to get a little comfy, because I'd done a little sparring with gloves and booties with a couple of my buds - Then he goes and tries to kick me in the 'nads... Now, I dunno if he was planning on stopping short or not, but hey, it looked real... So I blocked it, and it felt real. Wearing a cup and all, but hey, that could have smarted... Next thing I know, punch to the schnozola, and I'm seeing little stars, hearts and clovers... Whoa! So I got a little space, and got centered, and when he approached again, he got the short-course in how a center moves from being a long snapper to a blocker... Dang, but those little guys make such interesting crunchy and screamy noises when their ribs crack...

I had to drop that class.

[LASur5r]

Bogie,
Just for fun once I took a karate self-defense class in college for credit. I figured I'd be the dork of the class not to give them a hard time...mostly so people would not want to work out with me.
I'd already got the basics of Bruce Lee's JKD down and I just wanted something to give me a work out and I could maybe learn how other guys taught their classes.
I had already been teaching m.a.for seven years at this time.
So, I'm a geeky looking guy and sure enough the instructors (one black, and two browns pick on me).
I try my best to punch with the left hand when they tell me to punch with the right, do sloppy blocks, etc..
Shortly, they left me alone....except when they wanted a punching dummy for their little demonstrations. So I do my best to stumble through and have them knock me down, much to their delight.
Before I know it it is finals time and you have to try your best to defend yourself against the three of them as they attack you in various ways. Some of the girls during this quarter complained that these three guys were getting "too grabby." and tried to aggressively date some of the women. The girls felt that when they turned down some of the invites to date, the three instructors got a little rough in class.
My momma didn't raise no low life, so I was not too happy about their complaints of being "groped", but after all, class was almost over with.
Unfortunately, I was going into the test with this in mind so as I stepped on the mat, the first guy decided to sucker punch me for the test. The second guy tried to hit me from behind, and the third guy got too confident figuring his buds would have me down before his turn.
Straight punch to the solar plexus of the guy in front, drop back and side step to the guy in the rear while using a groin hit, stop kick the third guy in the shins and they were down.
Still thinking black thoughts, I rolled one in the direction of the other two and leg locked the three of them ala Gene LeBell...and recited the mantra of a martial artist should have good and pure thoughts and not take advantage of geeky looking and girl students...until they said they would be good boys.
That class was dropped from the curriculum for the year and a half that I stayed after to graduate.

[dragontooth73]

LOL

[Danger Dave]

Yep, it's jerks like those that give martial arts a bad rap. I think we've all run into a know-it-all self-proclaimed badass or two. Usually, they're just bullies and/or showoffs.

I think being able to take a punch is as much mental as it is physical. If you're not accustomed to the idea of being drilled, your mind says "uh-oh" and you retreat into your shell. It's not always the physical damage, it's the mental shock. You have to be able to eliminate the shock & be willing to continue.

There's a good deal of technique involved in taking a strike/throw/whatever with minimal injury, but it takes hard training (like training with real strikes) to develop it. If you've never had anybody try to take you out in training, you're not going to be prepared for it in the real world. Likewise, if you've never trained against a determined, aggressive partner, you're not going to react well when you nail them with your best shot and nothing noticeable happens (e.g. LASur5r's taking that punch - the first one he took, but it did do some real damage - what if the bully followed it up with another hard sternum strike?). Someone taking a good strike can be demoralizing at first (too many "martial artists" are taught to rely on the "deadly technique" semi-myth), but really, it's quite normal for people to take quite a battering before their body shuts down. That's why physical conditioning is important, too - it's not the recommended way, but I've seen a lot of fights come down to who is willing or able to take the most punishment and continue to dish it out.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[This message has been edited by Danger Dave (edited November 09, 2000).]

[LASur5r]

Danger Dave,
You're right.
What the m.a. schools at the time was teach kata and one point sparring. Some classes had some lightweight calisthenics, but that was it as far as physical conditioning.
Bruce Lee was the one that really got us on the idea of being in good physical shape through hard workouts, including running, etc..
I really agree about being in top shape, although I am not where I need to be in this stage of my life...but I was in a fight for my life once when I needed every ounce of energy that I needed to survive. At the end I felt that I had run about ten miles, and somebody had thrown a bucket of water on me. I ached all over, I felt as though I couldn't breathe, and I couldn't stand up afterwards. Funny, when I thought I heard more folks coming...I found the energy to get up and run like hell.
Never forget it...but it beats option #2....being the loser....

[Spectre]

Am I armed? Hell, I've been training since '94, but I ain't proud. I just want to go home. If he looks slower than me- and I can run without endangering others- I sure as hell will.

If I can't run, center. Breath. Wait.

[Mikul]

When I was studying Aikido with a local Ki Society the ONLY thing that I got really good at was keeping myself centered. That's not exactly impressive, but it made me somewhat difficult to train with because I would stay a little TOO centered when attacking.

Anywhosits, another student about 4 belts above me was throwing people around all day with much attitude and got to me and was being pretty hard on me (which I actually appreciate), and she told me to attack her a little harder. Instead of going ballistic and attacking her like an idiot, I held center really hard. She couldn't do a darn thing. It was funny because I wasn't trying to be a PITA, but she was looking really goofy. I think the people she had annoyed earlier were getting a real kick out of it.

The nice thing about martial arts is that the good students outnumber the buttmunches by a decent margin especially in the upper ranks. Karma always won...eventually.

[4V50 Gary]

Apply body softeners as my Sifu taught me. Kick first, punch later.

[Johnny Got His Gun.1]

Try a kick to the knee and render him structurally unsound. I find my knees crucial to my ability to stand.

So do most other folks.

[rms/pa]

once upon a time , when i drank in bars and got in fights.
i am 6'+ 250 lbs+ most of what i hit fell down. till i hit this guy.... bout 5'8" 3 feet wide looked like a juke box. gave him my best shot, he went uhhhh. and kept coming.
being the most sensible guy i turned and jumped out the window, second floor. bashed the heck out of the karmen ghia i landed on..less damage than i would have taken from the juke box man.

rms/pa