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Old June 3, 2019, 02:05 PM   #1
John E.B. Rawton
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Paper Cartridge Charges

Is anyone using paper cartridges with their cap n ball revolvers? I’m shooting four guns and was looking to shave off some time loading during the match. I’d rather do some work at home and help out more at the shoot.
I have 3 cylinders for my .44 ‘60 army but that only helps a little considering I shoot 30 rounds per gun. I have 2 cartridge formers by Cliff Manley which I have not used yet. I was thinking of making up the charges and wads ahead of time and just setting the balls at the shoot.
Any ideas?
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Old June 3, 2019, 03:32 PM   #2
44 Dave
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Making round ball paper cartridges with the Manley former. I don't use a wad but dip the bullet in melted lube up to the glue line, when hard I scrape the top of the bullet because the lube there does nothing but squish all over the loading ram.
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Old June 3, 2019, 03:42 PM   #3
John E.B. Rawton
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I was not sure how to address the lube. I have been putting powder, wad, lube then ball. Works great on the ‘51 and ‘60 but a little sparse for the Walkers.
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Old June 3, 2019, 11:34 PM   #4
Hawg
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If you use lubed wads you don't need the lube. If you use lube you don't need the wads.
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Old June 4, 2019, 03:26 PM   #5
John E.B. Rawton
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All my wads are dry fiber wads, then I lay a bead of home made lube from a 60 mil syringe before setting the ball. Works nicely so far.
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Old June 4, 2019, 06:28 PM   #6
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I believe Mike Bellevue (sp?) has a video up on Youtube discussing and demonstrating how to make paper cartridges. I think Mike posts here, but I can't remember what he uses as a screen name.

Found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzZzoIAmZFo
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Old June 4, 2019, 08:10 PM   #7
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Duelistxxxx (dunno the numbers)
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Old June 4, 2019, 08:59 PM   #8
John E.B. Rawton
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Duelist1954. I believe I watched this one before. Thanks.
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Old June 6, 2019, 05:27 PM   #9
rodwhaincamo
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As it seems typically that match loads tend to be a bit light (~20 grns for a .44) I’d think a lubed wad would be beneficial in getting the ball closer to the chamber mouth.
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Old June 6, 2019, 08:06 PM   #10
John E.B. Rawton
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I use 20 grn in my .36 ‘51 with a wad but after a few cylinder it gets hard to seat the ball below the chamber mouth. The .44 ‘60 with 25 grn and a wad is well in the chamber as are the .44 Walkers at 40 grn with wads.
I worked all four guns and closed the cylinder to barrel gap considerably and have great success in not fouling at the cylinder pin. I can easily clear 30 shots from each revolver with no maintenance in between.
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Old June 7, 2019, 10:02 AM   #11
Hellgate
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Making paper cartridges is great if you can do it while doing something else at the same time like watching a favorite TV show. The last two matches I shot in I used four C&Bs and hung around the unloading table clearing shooters coming off the line. I hold the gun barrel up, pour 5 chambers with a flask, wad 5, then ram 5. Do it enough and you get a rhythm. Also clearly mark your open chamber. I put a big dot of white or red fingernail polish near the mouth of the chamber. Generally the rest of the posse feels sorry for you anyway and has no animosity toward you if you don't have as much spare time to help as the rest. I buy 1/2” 45cal fiber wads from Track of the Wolf, split them and lube them (olive oil and beeswax). Two bags of 500 makes 2000 wads.
If you use paper cartridges get a set of tweezers and check for residual unburnt paper in each chamber just in case. I had too many missfires but others really like the paper cartridges. YMMV
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Old June 7, 2019, 03:40 PM   #12
John E.B. Rawton
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I like your wad idea. I currently used .455 dry wads also from Track. Making up 120 rounds is turning out to be a task and I still need to deprime, prime and assemble my brass shot shells for tomorrow. All in the name of fun.
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Old June 8, 2019, 05:27 PM   #13
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Well ... I just came back from today’s shoot and must say the cartridges were awesome. Dropped cartridges with wads attached, lubed and set the balls. All 119 cartridges went off and I did not need to pierce any. (One ripped) I used a double wrap of curling paper with a single layer cap on the nipple end. 1.0 cc, 2.2 and 2.5.
There were no hang fires. I did however, forget to check cylinders for unburnt paper before each reload. I know it saved a few seconds of loading time today but the time it took to cut, roll, cap and charge all the cartridges doesn’t seem to pay off. Still a good learning experience.
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Old June 9, 2019, 09:09 AM   #14
rodwhaincamo
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I made my paper cartridges using American Spirits cigarette papers made of flax. Thin but strong. I noticed paper shards often enough and removed them before reloading but then decided to leave them and see if it would cause issues. Granted I only went through 3 cylinders before I ran out, but I had no issues.

Eventually I bought some stump remover and tried nitrating the papers but found it to be messy and more tedious than I wanted.
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Old June 9, 2019, 11:16 AM   #15
44 Dave
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I don't clear the paper shards between shots. Mine seem to be doughnut shaped. They do allow the cap to set off the charge but do take space that is noticeable with later charges .Think 48 was about most I ever fired in a row.
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Old June 9, 2019, 03:38 PM   #16
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My concern id not so much that residue paper causes misfires. I’m more worried there could be a smoldering ember that could cook off your next charge and make for some scorched fingers, an accidental discharge or touch off a flask.
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Old June 10, 2019, 01:07 PM   #17
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I haven't shot any CBA events (yet), but if you just want to have pre-measured charges and seat the ball separate, then try Dixie Tubes from Dixie gun works. Soft re-usable plastic tubes with one end sealed. You pour in the measured charge, drop in a ball, and top it with the wad. When you want to load, squeeze the tube so the ball and wad squeeze out into your hand without spilling the powder. Dump the powder into the cylinder, put in the wad and ball, and ram it home.

Excellent video: go to YouTube and search Dixie Tube
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Old June 12, 2019, 09:39 AM   #18
44 Dave
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Put 42 rounds through my Navy (.36 is Navy) yesterday in quite rapid succession. The barrel got almost to hot to hold. Never cleaned paper scrap out or had a misfire. This batch of cartridges were un-nitrated hair curling papers .
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Old June 12, 2019, 05:19 PM   #19
John E.B. Rawton
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I was surprised at how well the curling paper works. It’s thin but strong. I seemed to have more unburnt paper in the .36 using 1.0 cc vs the .44s using 2.2-2.5 cc. Must burn up more paper considering the added volume.
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Old July 4, 2019, 09:42 AM   #20
D F Delozier
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The Manley former is an excellent piece of kit, I use them exclusively for my paper cartridges. I've worked up a method to get the powder wad and ball all in one unit, it works very well. I've been using the yellow looking wonder wads, I was concerned at first about powder contamination from the lubed wads, but no longer worry about that as I've got cartridges that I know have been loaded for a few months, and show no ill affects from storage.I've spoke with Cliff Manley a couple times, and he's a major contributor to another site I'm on. I don't know if he's active on this site or not. He's a wealth of valuable information, thankfully a lot of which has been archived on that site.
Cliff isn't everyone's cup of tea, as he has little tolerance for self imposed ignorance, and tends to rub the thin skinned among us the wrong way LOL, but I like the man. Unfortunately, his health is rapidly failing him and it appears he won't be with us much longer. I'm thankful I was able to purchase some of the last formers he produced, so if you've got some,hang on to them. As soon as I relearn how to post pics on here I'll post some of my all in one cartridges, I like coffee filter paper,and assemble with homemade wheat paste. I see a lot of people using glue sticks, the part of the paper with that glue on it tends not to combust very well. I've not had that issue with wheat paste.

Last edited by D F Delozier; July 4, 2019 at 09:48 AM.
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Old July 5, 2019, 11:54 AM   #21
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I knew Cliff from a FB group I was in for awhile. He knows a lot of stuff and I don't remember ever having any problems with him.
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Old July 5, 2019, 10:37 PM   #22
D F Delozier
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Most people that don't have a problem with acquiring new knowledge and education don't have a problem with Cliff, it's the ones who seek advise, and fail to utilize it, then a day later post, seeking advice for the same problem,to which they were already give the solution. Generally because it doesn't fit with their preconceived ideas of how to fix it
I've spent many entertaining minutes reading those posts from people suggesting filing on the notch in the hammer's nose, or installing taller front sights as a way to adjust your point of impact, that really got him going LOL
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Old July 7, 2019, 10:08 AM   #23
D F Delozier
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Here's an all in one cartridge that I make.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20190705_171332_687.JPG (167.4 KB, 32 views)
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Old July 7, 2019, 05:45 PM   #24
John E.B. Rawton
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[QUOTE=D F Delozier;6729415]The Manley former is an excellent piece of kit, I use them exclusively for my paper cartridges. I've worked up a method to get the powder wad and ball all in one unit, it works very well. I've been using the yellow looking wonder wads, I was concerned at first about powder contamination from the lubed wads, but no longer worry about that as I've got cartridges that I know have been loaded for a few months, and show no ill affects from storage.

I was concerned about powder and lube issues. I just made up a bunch of charges without lube or ball. Perhaps next time I’ll throw in the lube wads. However my home lubed wads seem tight. May have to roll them between my finger and thumb first.
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