Why not .30-30 semi-auto? - Page 2

tintcutter · March 5, 2005, 02:05 AM

I think the savage 99 lever action had a rotary magazine that allowed other types of cartridges.

SunBear · March 5, 2005, 08:09 AM

The 6.8mm SPC is not now nor will it likely ever be NATO.

A lot of great suggestions here, though we may have wandered a little from your question (civil diversity of opinion is the strength of any forum

), for slightly better performance over the 30-30 with the same bullet weights the 308 is the middle-weight champ.

Gewehr98 · March 5, 2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

If you examine the bullistics of both rounds, 30-30 150 grain and the 7.62x39 in the 154 grain, you will see that the 7.62x39 which is a short stroked 30.06, out performs the 30-30.

But a "short-stroked" .30-06 would actually be the .308 Winchester, aka 7.62x51mm NATO round. No way on Gawd's green earth I'd compare a Soviet M43 7.62x39 round to the .30-06.

The Standard Model G was the .30-30 that was an autoloader. It could also be switched to pump-action, a practice which evidently happened a lot. The Standard Model M was a pump-only gun.

I have the rimless .30-30 ammo and gun, it's called the .30 Remington, and fired in the Remington Model 8 and later 81 rifles. It was also used in the pump-action Model 14 and later 141 rifles.

The new 6.8 SPC is based on the old .30 Remington case, but is significantly thicker in construction to allow higher working pressures than the old Model 8 Remington would appreciate.

drinks · March 6, 2005, 08:27 PM

There has never been a real problem getting .30 Rem. cases to reload,a .30-30, .32sp.or .25-35 case is easily modified for .30 Rem, just chuck up in a lathe or 1/2" drill press, use a file to turn down the rim and a hacksaw blade to make an extractor groove., same for .25 and .32 Rem. cases.

Anneal and resize.
Don

siggy2 · March 6, 2005, 08:46 PM

.308 and 30/06 beat the 30/30 and 7.62x39mm at all ranges

LAK · March 7, 2005, 02:34 AM

Gewehr98

Quote:

But a "short-stroked" .30-06 would actually be the .308 Winchester, aka 7.62x51mm NATO round. No way on Gawd's green earth I'd compare a Soviet M43 7.62x39 round to the .30-06.

Aye, the practical difference between the '06 and the .308 can be described as trivial. The same can not be said of the 7.62x39.

gak · March 19, 2005, 12:13 PM

To those touting the 30-06 and 308, no-one's arguing they won't beat the 30-30 (or 30 rem) or x39 "hands down" at any range--of course they will, but at a severe high weight/low capacity penalty...the question is usefulness in an assault or battle-type rifle where weight and handiness and firepower/capacity is a question (thus the reason for the M1 Carbine originally, but--though I am the proud owner of two GI Inlands/great guns both, not enough oomph in this discussion)....so the question comes down to, what round makes the most sense SHY of the 06 and 308...since, proven tho they may be, very heavy, low capacity (ok I'll give you the 20 rd M-14 mag, but did I say heavy?), high recoil formats. My guess would be the perfect "tweener" would be the 30-30 "auto" (i.e., rimless .30 Rem) with spitzer point--i.e., a "better 7.62x39." Next vote would be the same in 7-30 waters configuration (7mm in a 30-30 case) but rimless (What actual round out there would that be?--I assume still smaller than the 7mm-08 which is a necked down 308). Format/size would be a rifle somewhere right in between an M14 and M-1 Carbine (sounds like an AK or Mini 30 doesn't it!), directly proportionate/commensurate with the difference between those two rifles' ammo sizes.

Handy · March 19, 2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

but at a severe high weight/low capacity penalty

Are you kidding? 30-30 and .308 are almost identical in size, and .308 is about 1/2" longer than 7.62x39. The main difference is recoil, not size or capacity.

Severe penalty?

Colduglandon · March 19, 2005, 09:44 PM

I recall a friend of mine had a 30 30 bolt action back in the late 60's. I believe it was made by Savage. Real bare bones gun.

Saw a deer that was shot with an SKS several years ago. I recall the young man saying the deer was over a 100 yards away. There were around 6 to 8 bullets in the deer. Some of them barely penetrated the hide. His cousin had to drop it with an old Mauser, 8 mm I think it was. Maybe it was the distance, maybe it was the ammo, but I don't think the SKS is a good meat gun. Just my opinion after helping gut and skin that deer. But it was a heck of a buck, weighed in at over 200 hundred pounds after we field dressed it.

For deer, I will stick with my 3030 close in, or my shot gun. If I have to reach out I prefer my old '06 with a scope; old eyes.

Frenchy · April 1, 2005, 03:54 AM

Quote:

I dont know who would use a 240 weatherby on a deer i break out the .300 when it comes to something needing to die.

One of the most popular deer cartridges in history is the .243 Winchester!...Why would the .240 Weatherby be a stretch?

cheygriz · April 1, 2005, 08:49 PM

Semi-autos, by their nature are a bit heavier than the typical Winchesater lever gun.

If you don't want a lever gun, but like the .30-30 cartridge, try to find a used Remington 788 Bolt action in .30-30. There are still a few around.

For short and light, the Remington Model 7 bolt action in 7MM-08 or .308 is also an excellent dhoice.

bronco840 · November 5, 2005, 08:34 PM

I have used the 7.62x39 yugo for years for javalina and small game. I also own a 30-30 and '06 and 35 remington for all my smaller close game but the 7.62 is cheaper and more practical for me. plus the simi auto helps after the first miss. If you are looking for 200+ yard shooting you are going to fall short with all but the '06, this is where my 300 wheatherby mag comes in to play. In my opinion the best long shot rifle, but that is just my 2 cents.

greeneggsnham · November 8, 2005, 07:36 PM

why? simply because red blooded americans love the thirty thirty. my buddy killed a nice doe this past sunday with an old springfield bolt action thirty thirty, and stevens made one as well. i found one locally but they wanted a hundred bucks too much for it. not an auto, but an alternative to the lever.

chemist308 · November 8, 2005, 11:08 PM

as said, rimmed case. I think someone else here said if US done away with the rim in WW2 and made it in select fire rifle our country would have had the first real assault rifle...

Dante690 · November 8, 2005, 11:23 PM

Hornady has come out with a new cartridge for leverguns that is pointed and extends the effective range of lever guns by a long ways.

rural12 · November 9, 2005, 10:36 PM

I have never seen so many "know it all" people in one place.

All threads on this forum are hijacked by experts debating amongst themselves.

chemist308 · November 9, 2005, 10:52 PM

OMG this thread is from March...

Art Eatman · November 10, 2005, 09:43 AM

It seems to me there will always be a bit of a reliability problem for a semi-auto to feed rimmed cases.

If you go to something like the .30 Rem, there's the problem that for that power level and size of cartridge, the weight of the action will be greater than that of a Model 94.

As far as the AK round and the .30-30, it's not the power level of either that's the problem. They'll do okay on deer out to a hundred yards or so. The problem is the typical rifle with the typical sights: Not very precise. There is also the rather quick degradation in the trajectory for reliable clean-kill hits "out yonder". This last is more of a people problem than a gun problem; too many optimists.

Art

Shootrj2003 · October 31, 2021, 11:15 PM

Sure this dead but I can’t resist,the Russians made very capable mg’s and semis with a rimmed round,and they could be 30/30 powered and maybe work very nicely,A 30/30 drugenov would be an awesome project and what a great deer rifle!

Jim Watson · October 31, 2021, 11:38 PM

The Czech 7.62x45 is a bit closer to .30-30.
All you have to do is find a VZ52 and its ammo.

Butzbach · November 1, 2021, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoSword

Not to mention the flat nose bullets for tubular magazines.

This “problem” was solved in 1913 with the Remington model 14’s spiral tubular magazine. While the OP’s Quixotic quest for a semiauto 30-30 will go on, he and others like him may find they prefer a trombone to a pump handle. The pump action actually assists the shooter in bringing the muzzle down and the sights back on target after firing. The model 141 (the 14’s successor) is a light, fast handling weapon described as “a rifleman’s rifle” by the American Rifleman magazine. It was available in the .25, .30 .32, and .35 Remington cartridges.

The climb is not worth the view when it comes to reloading the .30 Remington. The .35 Remington however is another story. The ballistic similarity of the 30-30 and .35 Remington is attested to in articles as this:
https://www.americanhunter.org/artic...-35-remington/
You’ll have to ignore the author’s reiteration of the tubular magazine red herring as he addresses only lever actions in his piece. Ya know, cuz they’re “cool.”

Butzbach · November 1, 2021, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shootrj2003

Sure this dead but I can’t resist,the Russians made very capable mg’s and semis with a rimmed round,and they could be 30/30 powered and maybe work very nicely,A 30/30 drugenov would be an awesome project and what a great deer rifle!

So did the British. Light and handy though? At least the bipod would keep a hypothetical 30-30 Bren gun out of the snow ⛄️ while you were gutting your deer.

jmr40 · November 1, 2021, 06:35 AM

It's a 17 year old tread, let it die!

Butzbach · November 1, 2021, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmr40

It's a 17 year old tread, let it die!

Why? It’s new to me.

wachtelhund1 · November 1, 2021, 11:45 AM

Winchester model 100 carbine, .308 Winchester caliber. Excellent light weight deer rifle. I've used one for years and taken many deer with it.

On the other hand, in the mid 1980's, I had a Ruger Ranch rifle in 7.62 X 39mm. Fast and handy, Ruger sold it as a modern 30/30. I shot three deer with it, two in GA where there deer are smaller than Wisconsin deer. That caliber was just barely marginal for deer. All three deer required second shot.

Can't remember when a second shot was required with a Win .308.

March 5, 2005, 02:05 AM	#26
tintcutter Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 207	I think the savage 99 lever action had a rotary magazine that allowed other types of cartridges. __________________ The fine art of B.S. is not found in what is said, but in its plausibility.

March 5, 2005, 08:09 AM	#27
SunBear Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: mid TN Posts: 30	Terminology The 6.8mm SPC is not now nor will it likely ever be NATO. A lot of great suggestions here, though we may have wandered a little from your question (civil diversity of opinion is the strength of any forum ), for slightly better performance over the 30-30 with the same bullet weights the 308 is the middle-weight champ. __________________ BABABOOM!!! CLEAR! I'm not afraid of the dark.....I am the boogeyman. Many ILLEGAL aliens are murderers, rapists, and child molesters spreading AIDS, tuberculosis and a host of other diseases all over our country. Some are TERRORISTS. Half fast training WILL get you killed.

March 6, 2005, 08:27 PM	#29
drinks Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2004 Posts: 405	.30-30 auto There has never been a real problem getting .30 Rem. cases to reload,a .30-30, .32sp.or .25-35 case is easily modified for .30 Rem, just chuck up in a lathe or 1/2" drill press, use a file to turn down the rim and a hacksaw blade to make an extractor groove., same for .25 and .32 Rem. cases. Anneal and resize. Don

March 19, 2005, 12:13 PM	#32
gak Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2005 Location: Aridzona Posts: 2,767	To those touting the 30-06 and 308, no-one's arguing they won't beat the 30-30 (or 30 rem) or x39 "hands down" at any range--of course they will, but at a severe high weight/low capacity penalty...the question is usefulness in an assault or battle-type rifle where weight and handiness and firepower/capacity is a question (thus the reason for the M1 Carbine originally, but--though I am the proud owner of two GI Inlands/great guns both, not enough oomph in this discussion)....so the question comes down to, what round makes the most sense SHY of the 06 and 308...since, proven tho they may be, very heavy, low capacity (ok I'll give you the 20 rd M-14 mag, but did I say heavy?), high recoil formats. My guess would be the perfect "tweener" would be the 30-30 "auto" (i.e., rimless .30 Rem) with spitzer point--i.e., a "better 7.62x39." Next vote would be the same in 7-30 waters configuration (7mm in a 30-30 case) but rimless (What actual round out there would that be?--I assume still smaller than the 7mm-08 which is a necked down 308). Format/size would be a rifle somewhere right in between an M14 and M-1 Carbine (sounds like an AK or Mini 30 doesn't it!), directly proportionate/commensurate with the difference between those two rifles' ammo sizes. Last edited by gak; March 19, 2005 at 12:22 PM. Reason: clarification

March 19, 2005, 09:44 PM	#34
Colduglandon Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 1999 Location: Mass Posts: 493	I recall a friend of mine had a 30 30 bolt action back in the late 60's. I believe it was made by Savage. Real bare bones gun. Saw a deer that was shot with an SKS several years ago. I recall the young man saying the deer was over a 100 yards away. There were around 6 to 8 bullets in the deer. Some of them barely penetrated the hide. His cousin had to drop it with an old Mauser, 8 mm I think it was. Maybe it was the distance, maybe it was the ammo, but I don't think the SKS is a good meat gun. Just my opinion after helping gut and skin that deer. But it was a heck of a buck, weighed in at over 200 hundred pounds after we field dressed it. For deer, I will stick with my 3030 close in, or my shot gun. If I have to reach out I prefer my old '06 with a scope; old eyes. __________________ From the People's Republic of Massachusetts

March 6, 2005, 08:46 PM	#30
siggy2 Member Join Date: March 4, 2005 Posts: 16	.308 and 30/06 beat the 30/30 and 7.62x39mm at all ranges

April 1, 2005, 08:49 PM	#36
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Semi-autos, by their nature are a bit heavier than the typical Winchesater lever gun. If you don't want a lever gun, but like the .30-30 cartridge, try to find a used Remington 788 Bolt action in .30-30. There are still a few around. For short and light, the Remington Model 7 bolt action in 7MM-08 or .308 is also an excellent dhoice. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

November 5, 2005, 08:34 PM	#37
bronco840 Junior Member Join Date: November 5, 2005 Posts: 1	I have used the 7.62x39 yugo for years for javalina and small game. I also own a 30-30 and '06 and 35 remington for all my smaller close game but the 7.62 is cheaper and more practical for me. plus the simi auto helps after the first miss. If you are looking for 200+ yard shooting you are going to fall short with all but the '06, this is where my 300 wheatherby mag comes in to play. In my opinion the best long shot rifle, but that is just my 2 cents.

November 8, 2005, 07:36 PM	#38
greeneggsnham Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Posts: 85	why? simply because red blooded americans love the thirty thirty. my buddy killed a nice doe this past sunday with an old springfield bolt action thirty thirty, and stevens made one as well. i found one locally but they wanted a hundred bucks too much for it. not an auto, but an alternative to the lever.

November 8, 2005, 11:08 PM	#39
chemist308 Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2005 Location: Pocono Mtns, PA Posts: 587	as said, rimmed case. I think someone else here said if US done away with the rim in WW2 and made it in select fire rifle our country would have had the first real assault rifle...

November 8, 2005, 11:23 PM	#40
Dante690 Member Join Date: October 2, 2005 Posts: 46	Hornady has come out with a new cartridge for leverguns that is pointed and extends the effective range of lever guns by a long ways.

November 9, 2005, 10:36 PM	#41
rural12 Member Join Date: November 1, 2005 Location: Vidalia Ga Posts: 50	I have never seen so many "know it all" people in one place. All threads on this forum are hijacked by experts debating amongst themselves.

November 9, 2005, 10:52 PM	#42
chemist308 Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2005 Location: Pocono Mtns, PA Posts: 587	OMG this thread is from March...

November 10, 2005, 09:43 AM	#43
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	It seems to me there will always be a bit of a reliability problem for a semi-auto to feed rimmed cases. If you go to something like the .30 Rem, there's the problem that for that power level and size of cartridge, the weight of the action will be greater than that of a Model 94. As far as the AK round and the .30-30, it's not the power level of either that's the problem. They'll do okay on deer out to a hundred yards or so. The problem is the typical rifle with the typical sights: Not very precise. There is also the rather quick degradation in the trajectory for reliable clean-kill hits "out yonder". This last is more of a people problem than a gun problem; too many optimists. Art

October 31, 2021, 11:15 PM	#44
Shootrj2003 Member Join Date: August 12, 2007 Posts: 25	Sure this dead but I can’t resist,the Russians made very capable mg’s and semis with a rimmed round,and they could be 30/30 powered and maybe work very nicely,A 30/30 drugenov would be an awesome project and what a great deer rifle!

October 31, 2021, 11:38 PM	#45
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	The Czech 7.62x45 is a bit closer to .30-30. All you have to do is find a VZ52 and its ammo.

November 1, 2021, 06:35 AM	#48
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,808	It's a 17 year old tread, let it die! __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

November 1, 2021, 11:45 AM	#50
wachtelhund1 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2007 Location: pelican lake, WI Posts: 414	Winchester model 100 carbine, .308 Winchester caliber. Excellent light weight deer rifle. I've used one for years and taken many deer with it. On the other hand, in the mid 1980's, I had a Ruger Ranch rifle in 7.62 X 39mm. Fast and handy, Ruger sold it as a modern 30/30. I shot three deer with it, two in GA where there deer are smaller than Wisconsin deer. That caliber was just barely marginal for deer. All three deer required second shot. Can't remember when a second shot was required with a Win .308.