My loads won't "plunk" .45 acp

PolarFBear · November 8, 2020, 12:24 PM

Just trying to load some PMC .45 acp. The completed round fits easily in my Lyman case gage, OK in my Dillon gage but WILL NOT PLUNK in my Ruger Blackhawk .45acp cylinder. The empty PMC "plunked" just fine. I've crimped beyond reasonabelness, seated deeper until my seater bottomed out, bulge busted the completed rounds, sized two types of bullets to .451, trimmed the case to proper length (first time I have EVER trimmed a pistol case). I am at a loss to determine the cause. I am using a Dillon sizer, Lee powder measure, Lee bullet seater and Lee FCD. My final resort will be trying to "plunk" in my stainless Bisley .4 acp cylinder. Well, that did NOT work. Same failure to plunk on the Bisley Vaquero. I'm pretty much OUT of ideas.

pwc · November 8, 2020, 01:07 PM

Go to the SSAMI site and measure your finished round against the "standard". The problem will be revealed and once that is known, the fix should be easy to see.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 8, 2020, 01:39 PM

What Lyman case gauge are you using? Is it a "case" gauge, or one of their ammo checkers? They offer the single-round, round "cartridge gauges," the multi-round "Ammo Checker Blocks," and case gauges.

In addition to measuring your loaded rounds, have you considered slugging your cylinder?

74A95 · November 8, 2020, 01:43 PM

Use the magic marker method to determine WHY it won't plunk. See below;

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...unk-test/99389

**Aguila Blanca** · November 8, 2020, 01:46 PM

What are you using for bullets? I just realized that this thread is in the "Bullet Casting" sub-forum, but so far there has been no mention of casting. Should this discussion be moved to the general 'Reloading" area?

dahermit · November 8, 2020, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74A95

Use the magic marker method to determine WHY it won't plunk. See below;

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...unk-test/99389

Yes...as a former machinist, I learned that if something would not "go" I could inevitably find out why by using layout dye (Dykum). I still have a container of it on the shelves of my handloading bench. I prefered layout dye to magic markers in that the dye seemed to be more "brittle" and flaked-off easier than did markers, making it easier to see the contact place.

**44 AMP** · November 8, 2020, 03:01 PM

Do the rounds go into the revolver cylinder far enough that they do not drag or hinder the cylinder rotation??

If yes , what's the problem??

**Aguila Blanca** · November 8, 2020, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahermit

Yes...as a former machinist, I learned that if something would not "go" I could inevitably find out why by using layout dye (Dykum). I still have a container of it on the shelves of my handloading bench. I prefered layout dye to magic markers in that the dye seemed to be more "brittle" and flaked-off easier than did markers, making it easier to see the contact place.

I'm pretty sure that Brownells sells Dykem. I have a small bottle of it on my workbench, and I believe I got it from Brownells.

PolarFBear · November 8, 2020, 05:34 PM

Thanks to all for the replies. A/B, the bullets are cast with Eastood Ford Blue powder coat. I have SUCCESSFULLY loaded these same bullets using the same equipment and process recently. I use a LYMAN multi-hole "Ammo Checker", plus the Dillon single hole case gage. The rounds will chamber in the Blackhawk cylinder but stand a little "proud". Factory rounds, as well as my recently loaded "good" loads, "plunk" all the way down. Those that stand "proud" rotate but drag to a halt at 7:00. Tried them in two Ruger acp cylinders. I think I will "step away" from the bench for a while and "re-think" everything. I have been loading for about 18 years in multi-caliber for pistol and some long guns. For Aguila Blanca, this might get a wider read in Reloading for the comments on the equipment used and furstration encountered. Thanks.

LeverGunFan · November 8, 2020, 05:57 PM

Can you push just the bullets alone (not in a case) through the cylinder throats? Perhaps the coated bullets are just a bit larger than the cylinder throat diameters.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 8, 2020, 05:59 PM

So when you said you loaded "some PMC .45 acp," you loaded some home-cast, home powder coated bullets into PMC brass?

Have you tried loading those same bullets into any other makes of brass?

Were the bullets sized after casting? If so -- before or after powder coating? What's the final bullet diameter (after powder coating)?

Do you have a way to accurately measure the case wall thickness?

Lastly, is there any possibility that there's a bit of a carbon ring in the chambers?

PolarFBear · November 8, 2020, 06:14 PM

A/B. Tried Remington and Winchester -- No Go. Something IS amiss with my precedures eventhough I have re-adjusted all my dies per manufaturers instructions. I do NOT have a good measuring device, just a cheap plastic dial indicator sutiable for COL, etc. Plus my skills are not "honed" in the machinest trade (but I'm fair). Yes, bullets were sized after powder coat. First to .452. Failure, then to .451. I will dismiss the "carbon" theory: some of the same previously cast, PC'd, loaded, etc. Chamber and rotate 360 in both of my Rugers. I jst CAN NOT figure out what I am doing wrong. I quess the"tinsle fairy" is demanding MORE homage! Next step; tomorrow(it will be a better day) will try an entirely different press. Maybe even just try the old fashioned way on a Rockchucker.

74A95 · November 8, 2020, 07:06 PM

Using the magic marker method will tell you EXACTLY WHY they don't fit. See the link I posted.

Msauter · November 9, 2020, 06:45 AM

I have had similar problems loading for my Blackhawk ... using Acme coated 230 gr RN-NLG bullets I need to seat at 1.215” OAL to get them to chamber properly. I was told on another forum that the cylinder throats may be too tight ... I own a reamer and used it on the .45 Colt cylinder, but have been reluctant to try reaming the .45 ACP cylinder because it is so accurate the way it came, and I’m afraid with the long throats on the .45 ACP cylinder it increases the risk of going off-center or creating an oval throat while reaming.

mehavey · November 9, 2020, 07:07 AM

1. Ruger has notoriously constrictive revolver throats. My Vaqueros would not chamber some cast rounds until I opened the cylinders to 0.4525"

2. Powdercoating builds up the ogive dimensions ahead of the bullet shank -- dimensions that are not sizable.

OOC: What bullet/bullet shape are you using? How deep are you req'd to seat them before the cartridge will chamber? *

* this assumes case mouth sized back to no larger than 0.471"

PolarFBear · November 9, 2020, 11:01 AM

Success, I think??? Mehavey IS the winner. Took out my Uberti Cattlelman .45 acp cylinder. All my bullets (three different Lees) all passed unsized other than as cast. One chamber was a little tight and took a "nudge" with a pencil. In the Rugers, even those bullets sized to .451 had to be hammered through the charge holes. I did my best to measure the the bullets after I pounded them through the Rugers. I think they tallied out to .4505. Just enough to stop the "plunk". Now the question: should I have those Ruger cylinders reamed just a touch. Both of the Rugers are new to me and I have not fired either .45 acps, nor 45 Colt. Thanks for all the replies. I WAS at wits end.

November 8, 2020, 12:24 PM	#1
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	My loads won't "plunk" .45 acp Just trying to load some PMC .45 acp. The completed round fits easily in my Lyman case gage, OK in my Dillon gage but WILL NOT PLUNK in my Ruger Blackhawk .45acp cylinder. The empty PMC "plunked" just fine. I've crimped beyond reasonabelness, seated deeper until my seater bottomed out, bulge busted the completed rounds, sized two types of bullets to .451, trimmed the case to proper length (first time I have EVER trimmed a pistol case). I am at a loss to determine the cause. I am using a Dillon sizer, Lee powder measure, Lee bullet seater and Lee FCD. My final resort will be trying to "plunk" in my stainless Bisley .4 acp cylinder. Well, that did NOT work. Same failure to plunk on the Bisley Vaquero. I'm pretty much OUT of ideas. Last edited by PolarFBear; November 8, 2020 at 12:39 PM.

November 8, 2020, 01:39 PM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,466	What Lyman case gauge are you using? Is it a "case" gauge, or one of their ammo checkers? They offer the single-round, round "cartridge gauges," the multi-round "Ammo Checker Blocks," and case gauges. In addition to measuring your loaded rounds, have you considered slugging your cylinder? __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

November 8, 2020, 01:46 PM	#5
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,466	What are you using for bullets? I just realized that this thread is in the "Bullet Casting" sub-forum, but so far there has been no mention of casting. Should this discussion be moved to the general 'Reloading" area? __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

November 8, 2020, 03:01 PM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Do the rounds go into the revolver cylinder far enough that they do not drag or hinder the cylinder rotation?? If yes , what's the problem?? __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 8, 2020, 05:57 PM	#10
LeverGunFan Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 407	Can you push just the bullets alone (not in a case) through the cylinder throats? Perhaps the coated bullets are just a bit larger than the cylinder throat diameters. __________________ *Support the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition*

November 8, 2020, 01:07 PM	#2
pwc Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2018 Location: AZ Posts: 236	Go to the SSAMI site and measure your finished round against the "standard". The problem will be revealed and once that is known, the fix should be easy to see.

November 8, 2020, 01:43 PM	#4
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,568	Use the magic marker method to determine WHY it won't plunk. See below; https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...unk-test/99389

November 8, 2020, 05:34 PM	#9
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	Thanks to all for the replies. A/B, the bullets are cast with Eastood Ford Blue powder coat. I have SUCCESSFULLY loaded these same bullets using the same equipment and process recently. I use a LYMAN multi-hole "Ammo Checker", plus the Dillon single hole case gage. The rounds will chamber in the Blackhawk cylinder but stand a little "proud". Factory rounds, as well as my recently loaded "good" loads, "plunk" all the way down. Those that stand "proud" rotate but drag to a halt at 7:00. Tried them in two Ruger acp cylinders. I think I will "step away" from the bench for a while and "re-think" everything. I have been loading for about 18 years in multi-caliber for pistol and some long guns. For Aguila Blanca, this might get a wider read in Reloading for the comments on the equipment used and furstration encountered. Thanks.

November 8, 2020, 05:59 PM	#11
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,466	So when you said you loaded "some PMC .45 acp," you loaded some home-cast, home powder coated bullets into PMC brass? Have you tried loading those same bullets into any other makes of brass? Were the bullets sized after casting? If so -- before or after powder coating? What's the final bullet diameter (after powder coating)? Do you have a way to accurately measure the case wall thickness? Lastly, is there any possibility that there's a bit of a carbon ring in the chambers? __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

November 8, 2020, 06:14 PM	#12
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	A/B. Tried Remington and Winchester -- No Go. Something IS amiss with my precedures eventhough I have re-adjusted all my dies per manufaturers instructions. I do NOT have a good measuring device, just a cheap plastic dial indicator sutiable for COL, etc. Plus my skills are not "honed" in the machinest trade (but I'm fair). Yes, bullets were sized after powder coat. First to .452. Failure, then to .451. I will dismiss the "carbon" theory: some of the same previously cast, PC'd, loaded, etc. Chamber and rotate 360 in both of my Rugers. I jst CAN NOT figure out what I am doing wrong. I quess the"tinsle fairy" is demanding MORE homage! Next step; tomorrow(it will be a better day) will try an entirely different press. Maybe even just try the old fashioned way on a Rockchucker.

November 8, 2020, 07:06 PM	#13
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,568	Using the magic marker method will tell you EXACTLY WHY they don't fit. See the link I posted.

November 9, 2020, 06:45 AM	#14
Msauter Member Join Date: December 6, 2018 Location: VA Posts: 25	I have had similar problems loading for my Blackhawk ... using Acme coated 230 gr RN-NLG bullets I need to seat at 1.215” OAL to get them to chamber properly. I was told on another forum that the cylinder throats may be too tight ... I own a reamer and used it on the .45 Colt cylinder, but have been reluctant to try reaming the .45 ACP cylinder because it is so accurate the way it came, and I’m afraid with the long throats on the .45 ACP cylinder it increases the risk of going off-center or creating an oval throat while reaming.

November 9, 2020, 07:07 AM	#15
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	1. Ruger has notoriously constrictive revolver throats. My Vaqueros would not chamber some cast rounds until I opened the cylinders to 0.4525" 2. Powdercoating builds up the ogive dimensions ahead of the bullet shank -- dimensions that are not sizable. OOC: What bullet/bullet shape are you using? How deep are you req'd to seat them before the cartridge will chamber? * * this assumes case mouth sized back to no larger than 0.471" Last edited by mehavey; November 9, 2020 at 07:17 AM.

November 9, 2020, 11:01 AM	#16
PolarFBear Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2015 Location: NE Tennessee, a "Free State" Posts: 478	Success, I think??? Mehavey IS the winner. Took out my Uberti Cattlelman .45 acp cylinder. All my bullets (three different Lees) all passed unsized other than as cast. One chamber was a little tight and took a "nudge" with a pencil. In the Rugers, even those bullets sized to .451 had to be hammered through the charge holes. I did my best to measure the the bullets after I pounded them through the Rugers. I think they tallied out to .4505. Just enough to stop the "plunk". Now the question: should I have those Ruger cylinders reamed just a touch. Both of the Rugers are new to me and I have not fired either .45 acps, nor 45 Colt. Thanks for all the replies. I WAS at wits end.