The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 12, 2001, 07:47 AM   #1
steve86
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2001
Posts: 4
Was looking at a brand new (I know discontinued) Colt All american 2000 in 9mm with 2 hi caps. Looking for opinions on it. I remember when they first came out, wanted one but did not get it, lived in NYC at the time & could only get a pistol about evey 6 months or so & got a .22 & .45 first for target matches & by then the Colt was off the market. Did feel okay, trigger was long & smooth & gun felt good holding it.
steve86 is offline  
Old March 12, 2001, 10:32 AM   #2
Kenneth L. Walters
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 2, 1999
Location: flagstaff, arizona
Posts: 477
They were very badly designed and built. I don't now remember the list of problem that they had but some of the small parts would just come apart. I had two. I would not recommend buying one.
Kenneth L. Walters is offline  
Old March 12, 2001, 05:44 PM   #3
shawn
Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2000
Posts: 30
Ugly


Was interested in these for a while, but they make the Glock look pretty. Felt even worse in my hand.

If you need one, there always some on the auction sites. The company that makes and sells Ajax grips also has some preband magazines they are trying to get rid of.

Good Luck

Shawn
shawn is offline  
Old March 12, 2001, 07:18 PM   #4
flusher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 15, 2001
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 219
There was a recall on them for a fix. Dont know for what
flusher is offline  
Old March 12, 2001, 07:52 PM   #5
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 6,348
I've shot a friends -- which had the papers showing that the recall had been done.

There are worse pistols out there, but unless you're getting a REAL good deal, I'd avoid it.

Its got a terribly long double-action only trigger.

(The one I shot, however, was surprisingly accurate.)

For the money -- and the ones I've seen NIB sell for around $350-$400 -- I'd rather have a refurbished Glock, a new Ruger P-95/97, or a CZ-75/85...
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old March 12, 2001, 08:09 PM   #6
steve86
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2001
Posts: 4
Where are they selling them NIB for #350-$400.
steve86 is offline  
Old March 12, 2001, 09:57 PM   #7
ATTICUS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 1999
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,100
The All American is the only pistol that I ever sold, or traded away, that I had no regrets about. I traded one even for a Ruger GP100, and I still feel sorry for the poor guy that traded with me. Unless you are looking for a conversation piece and not a shooter, don't buy it. Mine took three trips back to Colt and still would not fire occasionally. Never could figure out why. BTW ....the guy I traded it to was the dealer that sold it to me. I couldn't have traded that POS with a clear conscience to just anyone.
ATTICUS is offline  
Old March 12, 2001, 10:36 PM   #8
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 6,348
Quote:
Where are they selling them NIB for #350-$400.
I've seen them advertised in Shotgun News in recent issues (in the $400 range) and a local gun shop (Winston-Salem, NC area) had one ANIB for $375. (When I asked the dealer if he really thought he could get THAT much for it, he grinned, and said, "We'll see.")

Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old March 13, 2001, 12:11 AM   #9
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,932
Heh... I have very UNFOND memories about the Colt AA 2000...

It was almost the cause of me getting fired from my job as associate editor of American Rifleman magazine.

Back when they first came out, Colt was really struggling.

Colt sent us an AA, hoping that we would write a glowing article about it. We got some pressure from the "higher ups" to write a glowing article about it. We got some pressure from the advertising agency to write a glowing article about it.

Normally that doesn't work at Rifleman.... BUT... someone took pity on the company, someone liked the gun, and someone else was apparently friends with one of the co-designers, so it was pretty much preordained that the gun was going to be highly placed in the magazine.

Problem was, the pistol that Colt sent us to test was an absolute, 100% Grade A piece of worthless $$^()&*$(#&#&^ crap on a cracker )$(*)^#(*#(*[email protected])$#() waste of *($(**&# metal!

The one that came through was shooting TWENTYFIVE INCH groups at 25 yards!

It went back to the factory, where we were told that the barrel and the frame were improperly cut.

It came back.

This one cut groups down to about 12 inches at 25 yards.

Back it went again.

Some more tweeking.

Back it came.

This time it actually fired half-way crappily decent groups. I forget exactly what they were, but they were the groups that got published in the range report in Rifleman. Certainly nothing to write home about.

There were also a lot of other problems with all three iterations of the gun.

Trigger problems. Feeding problems. Sight problems. Magazine catch problems.

I thought for certain that, as was our practice, the gun would be returned to Colt with a "try us again when you work the problems out."

Imagine how shocked I was when I found out that we were not only going to run a semi-glowing article about the gun, but that we were going to put it on the cover!

I made my feelings very clear in our monthly editorial staff meeting, and actually got into something of a shouting match with one of the other editors. I lost, of course. I was new boy on the totem pole.

So, stupid idealistic me, not giving a rat's rectum about the politics involved, I dashed off a 2-page memo that absolutely SAVAGED the gun and the decision to put the gun in the magazine.

End result? The editor and/or publisher was so pissed at me that I was almost fired.

In the long run, though, I was pretty much vindicated. The AA 2000 was an absolute disaster for Colt, and almost pushed them into bankruptcy. What I heard later from a Colt employee was that the early production guns weren't a lot better than the gun that we got at Rifleman, and Colt took an absolute bath on trying to make them right, and never did succede 100%.

Long way of saying don't buy the damned thing.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old March 13, 2001, 08:59 PM   #10
westendg
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2001
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 8
I am a diehard Colt fan but I never could stand the All American. I bought one and ddid't like it so I sold it only to buy another, thought I would give it another chance. I sold it two.
westendg
westendg is offline  
Old March 14, 2001, 11:00 AM   #11
Dean Speir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 14, 2000
Posts: 155
As a coda to Mike's frustrating recollections…

The AA2000 was doomed almost from the start.

It wasn't an "in-house" project from Colt's, but when they got interested in it, it was during the "Dark Years" of the almost ruinous four plus year strike during which they lost the M16 contract to FN.

I'd made a trip to Hartford in April '90 to report for American Firearms Industry and Gun Week, on the resolution of that strike and the "new" Colt's Manufacturing Company, Inc. Just before I left the West Hartford plant, I was shown the AA2000 (and an alloy variant), even permitted to play with it, but was not allowed to photograph it. (They did the same thing with a couple of other writers as well.)

The biggest problem was that Colt's just didn't know how to go about bringing out a new pistol product… look how badly they'd botched the introduction of the Double Eagle in 1989. (The one I had on the cover of Combat Handguns was actually recalled while the magazine was being shipped.) They had also screwed the Delta Elite pooch when they had first brought that out… but that particular action did reinvigorate the 10mm market, and 'twere it not for Colt's action in '87, the 10mm would today be on the same dusty shelf as the .357 Maximum.

Jan Mladek was one of the young Turks who'd come up to Hartford from Fairchild Industries in an oversight capacity in the late '70s, and stayed on 'til he'd Peter Principled himself into a Vice Presidency. His media guy was an old-timer named John Nassif, a very colorful guy with many decades in the business (Winchester/Olin, Sturm Ruger, etc.) but who was under the mistaken impression that, as with the days of yore, all the gun writers were content to hang out and re-write his press releases in return for one huge annual junket to drink, dove-shoot and chase young girls or half-naked native boys in exotic places like Bolivia and Peru. It was just another serious miscalculation on the part of the "new" Colt's management team.

The biggest problem many of the writers had was that Dick Metcalf was allowed to lead the charge for Colt's on the introduction of the pistol. He'd shown great initiative and back-doored Colt's "information embargo" by flying down to Florida where Reed Knight gave him full access to a shooting model.

Then he went back to his farm in the mid-West, wrote up a whole slew of articles on it for Shooting Times and Handgunning (nee Handgun Quarterly), in one of which he asserted that the AA2000 instantly made the 1911 "obsolete." Then he was on point for the SHOT Show introduction in Dallas, and Colt's never had a clue as to how badly they'd torpedoed themselves. (At least, though, they were smart enough not to try to freeze him out for end-running them.)

The gun itself was an innovative design involving polymer when that was still something not well accepted in the marketplace. It was also DAO and there were still many in the community who couldn't accept that type of trigger.

The rotary bolt had a lot to do with it as well. (Americans seem to have a problem with things "rotary;" consider a certain revolutionary, everything-else-is-obsolete Japanese automobile!) Reed Knight was the guy who brought the project to Colt's, but it was widely hinted that his friend Gene Stoner had had much to do with the design.

But Colt's, as well as making a number of horrendous management decisions in those years (and still!), was also snake-bit... the biggest snake being one Anthony Autorino (sp?) who headed up the LBO that brought them out of Colt Industries (nee Fairchild), but actually raped the company, right down to the rampant Colt emblem atop the old Hartford dome.

I know one writer, Walt Rauch, took the AA2000 out to the range, determined to make it shoot... and he did. And reported it. But few had Walt's tenacity.

Another respected writer, a good friend who annually did a 10,000 round torture test of one pistol or another, actually quit before the 2,700 round count with the AA2000, and told his Editor that he didn't want to be the one to put the final shot on Colt's waterline… the damned pistol all but melted into a glob of polymer slag, and this with CCI "Blazer" 115-grain TMJs. That was on top of documented malfunctions throughout; he and his hardy crew spent more time scribbling in notebooks then they did yanking the trigger and recharging the magazines. (I promised him I wouldn't give him up on this, but he may wanna tell the story himself one of these days.)

I remember The American Rifleman piece… it was more instructive for what it didn't say, than what it did report.

The coup de grace in many minds was when Colt's, under Ron Whitaker (a genuinely good guy and a savvy businessman, but not a gun person), offered to remainder all of their AA2000s to an outfit in Texas (I believed it to be CDNN in Abilene, but another source says it was Bachman Gun & Pawn in Dallas) for next to nothing toward the end of Summer '93.

Had Colt's hung out five or six more months, they could have sold every one of those pistols at their own price when the post-Brady, pre-Crime Bill buying craze struck, and high capacity anything-which-would-shoot was being gobbled up with frightening rapacity. Shaun Nelms of Bachman, avers that he sold hundreds in one weekend at the HGCA gun show at the Astrohall, in Houston.
__________________
Dean, jus' visiting from The Gun Zone
Dean Speir is offline  
Old March 15, 2001, 12:49 PM   #12
joebogey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 27, 2000
Posts: 211
I owned one of the All Americans and I agree completely. It
was from day one nothing but junk. I had to take mine to the smith before I could fire it the first time. After he managed to get it to feed, I couldn"t hit a Brahma bull in the a** with it at 15 yards. The trigger pull was so long that by the time the thing went off, I had forgotten what I was shooting at. Save your money and find something you can count on.
joebogey is offline  
Old March 15, 2001, 01:42 PM   #13
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,932
Oh yeah...

The famous Wankle Rotary Engine...

Or, as a friend calls it, the Wanker Sit-on-it and Rotate Engine. He went through 4 on his Mazda RX 7, each one replaced on Mazda's dime.

The new Beretta rotary pistols seem to be a bit better accepted.

But I think that's because they actually work, as opposed to the AA 2000 and the Wankle engine.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old March 16, 2001, 05:09 PM   #14
neil pilling
Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2001
Posts: 58
Now I know that this reply will get COMPLETELY blasted. But I would take the AA2000 a security officer brought to his firearms training class over ANY S&W Sigma ever made.

IMO everything that has been posted above about the AA2000 is true of the Sigmas.

Bad trigger Check
Poor balance Check
Unreliable CHECK, CHECK, CHECK

The AA2000 that I shot was at least reliable.

Okay thats all I have to say let the fireworks begin.
neil pilling is offline  
Old March 16, 2001, 06:28 PM   #15
Gewehr98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2000
Location: Token Creek, WI
Posts: 4,067
Hey, I resemble that remark!

I have a Rupp Nitro snowmobile, stored in my dad's barn in Wisconsin, that has a Wankel, and it just plain boogies! Haven't had to replace the apex seals yet, but I figure someday it'll need them.

But I'm glad you guys are coming forward with the info about the All American 2000, my latest SOG flyer lists them, and I was curious and considering grabbing one for historical purposes, although I'd probably want to try and shoot it, too. Now I know better. Glad Reed Knight walked away from that one with his butt intact...
Gewehr98 is offline  
Old March 16, 2001, 09:39 PM   #16
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 40,932
G98,

Don't buy a AA2000 for historical purposes, buy it for hysterical purposes.

As in, making everyone laugh at you.

Sorry, couldn't resist...
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old March 17, 2001, 11:11 AM   #17
Gewehr98
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2000
Location: Token Creek, WI
Posts: 4,067
It's alright...

I basically asked for it. I've since decided to save the money and buy a nice 1899 Oberndorf M96 Swede, instead. Much less derision factor, too.
Gewehr98 is offline  
Old February 10, 2009, 03:08 AM   #18
gunsmithing
Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Posts: 23
I have a model 2000, and have shot it ALOT. It has never failed to hit what I aimed at, and feed what I put in it. I greased the rollers, and lubed the springs. If I could get a good holster for it I would carry it all the time. I have hit unbelievable targets at 100 yards, all day long, shot it for 200 rounds at a time, and never cleaned it until it bothered me too bad. I own many guns, and it is one of the best. It is as reliable as a CZ75 my son carries on his job. So I have problems with understanding the issues presented on this forum. Colt maybe should have had someone that knew how to work on the gun do the work, not someone that got the job by a Union connection.
gunsmithing is offline  
Old February 10, 2009, 12:49 PM   #19
RickB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 1, 2000
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 8,256
The 1st Edition guns had aluminum frames, and I thought those might make a decent collectible. Don't see many around, and they differ greatly from the production guns, unlike the usual 1st Eds, which are just some gold lettering and a wood box.
RickB is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.06899 seconds with 10 queries