NRA being investigated

SonOfScubaDiver · March 27, 2018, 11:43 AM

I'm not sure if this qualifies as being firearms related, so no worries on my part if the mods decide it isn't. With it being on the front line in the gun rights debate, I thought this might be interesting for us to discuss. The NRA is being investigated for how it uses money it receives from foreign entities.

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59727...-election-work

RC20 · March 27, 2018, 11:48 AM

I never knew it received any money from foreign entities .

BarryLee · March 27, 2018, 11:49 AM

Well, in this era of 140-character news blurbs on social media I suspect just the headline isn’t good for us. Like a lot of things there probably is little or anything to it, but most folks will never read any in-depth reporting or the final resolution just the initial accusation.

zukiphile · March 27, 2018, 12:02 PM

In the link is a Ron Elving video. It's not a bad synopsis.

The written article is less good, and is at least partly the product of Peter Overby. I've listened to NPR for four decades, and acknowledge Overby's efficacy as a propagandist. NPR presents Overby as something like a journalist, but he really isn't that.

Erno86 · March 27, 2018, 12:17 PM

The NRA has been playing the con game for years --- No doubt...they've become quite good at it.

carguychris · March 27, 2018, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC20

I never knew it received any money from foreign entities .

Keep in mind that several prominent gunmakers are foreign-owned, although they may have substantial U.S. operations. Glock, HK, and FNH spring to mind.

At issue is who else the NRA may have taken money from.

This is not the first time that the organization's (overly intense IMHO) focus on fundraising has wound up biting it on the posterior.

Bartholomew Roberts · March 27, 2018, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erno86

The NRA has been playing the con game for years --- No doubt...they've become quite good at it.

What con game might that be?

As for the news, there are numerous foreign or foreign-owned gun manufacturers as carguychris noted. If they buy a booth at the annual NRA meeting to promote their wares, the NRA arguably took money from a foreign entity.

If they sponsor an NRA competition, same deal.

The NRA charter is fairly particular that member dues cannot be spent on lobbying. I’d have to find the charter and look at it; but I imagine there are similar restrictions on these types of funds.

Glenn E. Meyer · March 27, 2018, 06:03 PM

Let's stick to facts. It is an empirical question as to whether X or Y happened. We can discuss it factually. Just saying the NRA is good or bad without evidence, isn't worth our time.

johnwilliamson062 · March 27, 2018, 07:20 PM

I am sure there are hundreds of foreign individuals who are NRA members along with the foreign companies with interests to protect.

WyMark · March 27, 2018, 07:54 PM

The Congressional, FEC and FBI investigations are concerned with the NRA's relationship with and contributions from a Russian banker and close Putin ally, not foreign corporations or gun companies. And specifically whether any of that Russian money made up any part of the $30 million that the NRA donated to the Trump campaign.

Since foreign contributions to US elections are illegal, running it through a willing US organization like the NRA or it's PAC would be a fairly simple way to launder it.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 27, 2018, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

The NRA charter is fairly particular that member dues cannot be spent on lobbying. I’d have to find the charter and look at it; but I imagine there are similar restrictions on these types of funds.

My understanding is that the NRA is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization and that, as such, they can't spend any money on lobbying, regardless of the source. That's why they have the NRA-ILA -- that's the lobbying arm. Which is why, after the Parkland shooting, I sent a check to the NRA-ILA.

Bartholomew Roberts · March 27, 2018, 10:24 PM

NRA is a 501(c)(4) non-profit, which is why contributions to NRA are not tax deductible. The NRA Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit. (c)(4) non-profits are allowed to engage in lobbying with some restrictions.

SonOfScubaDiver · March 28, 2018, 04:46 AM

Quote:

The Congressional, FEC and FBI investigations are concerned with the NRA's relationship with and contributions from a Russian banker and close Putin ally, not foreign corporations or gun companies. And specifically whether any of that Russian money made up any part of the $30 million that the NRA donated to the Trump campaign.

Since foreign contributions to US elections are illegal, running it through a willing US organization like the NRA or it's PAC would be a fairly simple way to launder it.

Exactly. Also at issue is that the NRA moves money between accounts, thereby making it difficult to know if money is being used in ways that go against campaign finance laws. The organization could be in some trouble over this.

**Aguila Blanca** · March 28, 2018, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

NRA is a 501(c)(4) non-profit, which is why contributions to NRA are not tax deductible. The NRA Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit. (c)(4) non-profits are allowed to engage in lobbying with some restrictions.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of the distinction.

Bartholomew Roberts · March 28, 2018, 09:52 AM

[quote]The organization could be in some trouble over this.[quote]

The NRA was audited by the IRS continuously for all eight years of the Clinton Administration. So, I’m doubtful the NRA suddenly decided to break campaign finance laws during an Obama Administration, with a Clinton Administration looking like a high future probability. The NRA is many things; but they are consistently plodding, slow, and overcautious.

Not to mention the NRA still has a few prominent Democrats on the board or actively engaged behind the scenes.

SonOfScubaDiver · March 30, 2018, 08:38 PM

I was hoping to hear more about this on NPR this week, but nothing new has been aired. I've been getting home late from work, so I haven't had the time to research the issue any more.

BartR, maybe I'm just tired right now, but I'm not sure what IRS audits back in the Clinton years and Dems being on the board have to do with what's being investigated now. Can you clarify for me?

Bartholomew Roberts · March 30, 2018, 09:04 PM

No, I cannot. If you are incapable of making that inference I do not know any simpler or more obvious way to describe it.

SonOfScubaDiver · March 30, 2018, 09:24 PM

Ok.

In The Ten Ring · March 30, 2018, 10:07 PM

I enjoy listening to NPR when driving, but let's define "enjoy" more clearly.

I enjoy some of their stories, "BBC News" or whatever.

Their domestic stories I enjoy keeping me awake due to their obvious bias.

SonOfScubaDiver · March 31, 2018, 06:22 AM

NPR is great. Morning Edition and All Things Considered are very informative. They always present at least two sides to the news stories. What some of the other programs do is present one side one day and present the other the next, so you have to be a regular listener to get both sides. I've been waiting to hear a more in-depth report on this investigation of the NRA but there hasn't been anything more on it. I guess I will have to do a search on their website when I get home from work later on today. Maybe they have done more reporting on it and I just missed it for some reason. I'm no fan of the NRA, but I know that them getting caught with their pants down over the past election would do absolutely nothing to help with the PR problems we're dealing with right now.

turkeestalker · March 31, 2018, 07:07 AM

Quote:

I'm no fan of the NRA, but I know that them getting caught with their pants down over the past election would do absolutely nothing to help with the PR problems we're dealing with right now.

So when you say "we're", the "we" that you're referencing are those who are not fans of the NRA?
That's a pretty predictable group, but hey... this could be HUGE!

SonOfScubaDiver · March 31, 2018, 07:12 AM

Quote:

So when you say "we're", the "we" that you're referencing are those who are not fans of the NRA?
That's a pretty predictable group, but hey... this could be HUGE!

We as in gun owners. In case you haven't noticed, we (as in gun owners, since you apparently need clarification on that) are getting quite a bit of bad press lately.

turkeestalker · March 31, 2018, 07:25 AM

Oh I see! Thanks for the clarification.

Glenn E. Meyer · March 31, 2018, 11:52 AM

A reminder - we don't do lefty-righty or general Presidential politics.

Such are deleted

**Spats McGee** · March 31, 2018, 05:12 PM

Well, this will certainly make for an interesting intersection of 1A protections, 2A politics, and campaign financing in the days where corporations are people, too.

March 27, 2018, 11:43 AM	#1
SonOfScubaDiver Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2017 Posts: 391	NRA being investigated I'm not sure if this qualifies as being firearms related, so no worries on my part if the mods decide it isn't. With it being on the front line in the gun rights debate, I thought this might be interesting for us to discuss. The NRA is being investigated for how it uses money it receives from foreign entities. https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/59727...-election-work

March 27, 2018, 11:48 AM	#2
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I never knew it received any money from foreign entities . __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

March 27, 2018, 11:49 AM	#3
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	Well, in this era of 140-character news blurbs on social media I suspect just the headline isn’t good for us. Like a lot of things there probably is little or anything to it, but most folks will never read any in-depth reporting or the final resolution just the initial accusation. __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

March 27, 2018, 12:02 PM	#4
zukiphile Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Posts: 4,451	In the link is a Ron Elving video. It's not a bad synopsis. The written article is less good, and is at least partly the product of Peter Overby. I've listened to NPR for four decades, and acknowledge Overby's efficacy as a propagandist. NPR presents Overby as something like a journalist, but he really isn't that. __________________ http://www.npboards.com/index.php Last edited by zukiphile; March 27, 2018 at 12:22 PM.

March 27, 2018, 12:17 PM	#5
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	The NRA has been playing the con game for years --- No doubt...they've become quite good at it. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

March 27, 2018, 06:03 PM	#8
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Let's stick to facts. It is an empirical question as to whether X or Y happened. We can discuss it factually. Just saying the NRA is good or bad without evidence, isn't worth our time. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

March 27, 2018, 07:20 PM	#9
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I am sure there are hundreds of foreign individuals who are NRA members along with the foreign companies with interests to protect.

March 27, 2018, 07:54 PM	#10
WyMark Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 647	The Congressional, FEC and FBI investigations are concerned with the NRA's relationship with and contributions from a Russian banker and close Putin ally, not foreign corporations or gun companies. And specifically whether any of that Russian money made up any part of the $30 million that the NRA donated to the Trump campaign. Since foreign contributions to US elections are illegal, running it through a willing US organization like the NRA or it's PAC would be a fairly simple way to launder it.

March 27, 2018, 10:24 PM	#12
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	NRA is a 501(c)(4) non-profit, which is why contributions to NRA are not tax deductible. The NRA Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit. (c)(4) non-profits are allowed to engage in lobbying with some restrictions.

March 28, 2018, 09:52 AM	#15
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	[quote]The organization could be in some trouble over this.[quote] The NRA was audited by the IRS continuously for all eight years of the Clinton Administration. So, I’m doubtful the NRA suddenly decided to break campaign finance laws during an Obama Administration, with a Clinton Administration looking like a high future probability. The NRA is many things; but they are consistently plodding, slow, and overcautious. Not to mention the NRA still has a few prominent Democrats on the board or actively engaged behind the scenes.

March 30, 2018, 08:38 PM	#16
SonOfScubaDiver Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2017 Posts: 391	I was hoping to hear more about this on NPR this week, but nothing new has been aired. I've been getting home late from work, so I haven't had the time to research the issue any more. BartR, maybe I'm just tired right now, but I'm not sure what IRS audits back in the Clinton years and Dems being on the board have to do with what's being investigated now. Can you clarify for me?

March 30, 2018, 09:04 PM	#17
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	No, I cannot. If you are incapable of making that inference I do not know any simpler or more obvious way to describe it.

March 30, 2018, 09:24 PM	#18
SonOfScubaDiver Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2017 Posts: 391	Ok.

March 30, 2018, 10:07 PM	#19
In The Ten Ring Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2018 Posts: 380	I enjoy listening to NPR when driving, but let's define "enjoy" more clearly. I enjoy some of their stories, "BBC News" or whatever. Their domestic stories I enjoy keeping me awake due to their obvious bias.

March 31, 2018, 06:22 AM	#20
SonOfScubaDiver Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2017 Posts: 391	NPR is great. Morning Edition and All Things Considered are very informative. They always present at least two sides to the news stories. What some of the other programs do is present one side one day and present the other the next, so you have to be a regular listener to get both sides. I've been waiting to hear a more in-depth report on this investigation of the NRA but there hasn't been anything more on it. I guess I will have to do a search on their website when I get home from work later on today. Maybe they have done more reporting on it and I just missed it for some reason. I'm no fan of the NRA, but I know that them getting caught with their pants down over the past election would do absolutely nothing to help with the PR problems we're dealing with right now.

March 31, 2018, 07:25 AM	#23
turkeestalker Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2015 Location: Cottleville, Missouri Posts: 1,115	Oh I see! Thanks for the clarification. __________________ Vegetarian... primitive word for lousy hunter!

March 31, 2018, 11:52 AM	#24
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	A reminder - we don't do lefty-righty or general Presidential politics. Such are deleted __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

March 31, 2018, 05:12 PM	#25
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Well, this will certainly make for an interesting intersection of 1A protections, 2A politics, and campaign financing in the days where corporations are people, too. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.