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Old July 28, 2019, 01:36 PM   #76
Metal god
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-unless you are sure you know what the problem is and that it can be easily fixed
Well the problem is the barrel or bolt , there should be a reasonable expectation replacing them from a different more reputable manufacture will fix the issue .

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Have not found the win 308 brass to be "weak" in any manner
In general I'd agree but if you have a significantly thinner piece of metal then another . The thinner one will likely fail sooner then the thicker one as you stretch them . Until I had a rifle allowing the brass to grow .010+ in one firing . I'd never seen Win brass bloat like that either .

I was going to do a more comprehensive test when I was out there but CA new ammo law prevented me from buying the ammo needed to do so . Twice I went to buy ammo and both times circumstances prevented me from buying some . First time I didn't have two forms of ID , the second time the store did not have an authorized employee able to make the sale . This meant I was unable to test more Winchester ammo . All I had was Federal Power shok , GMM and some steel case Tula . I only shot 10rds of the power shok .

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None of my shorter 1::10 in twists shoot the 147/150 grainers very accurately.
That would suck because I bought 1k of them .
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Old July 28, 2019, 01:55 PM   #77
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there should be a reasonable expectation replacing them from a different more reputable manufacture will fix the issue .
Then why don't you return them?.
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Old July 28, 2019, 02:23 PM   #78
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I've been following this thread, curious to see how things finally turn out.

It SEEMS that you bought a "precision rifle" with a "machine gun generous" chamber. This (if that's what it actually is) might not matter to the military, but sucks if you want to reload for it.

I would remind everyone that, unless the maker advertises it, they don't HAVE to make guns that are "reloader friendly". if the firearm works reliably with factory ammo, even if it trashes the case in the process, it is doing what it was built to do.

It's great when they make things that do better than that, and generally we expect them to be better than that, but unless the maker specifically states otherwise, they aren't breaking their word if you can only shoot new factory ammo ONCE.
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Old July 28, 2019, 02:49 PM   #79
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Then why don't you return them?.
Now I'm confused , I did and they sent back a barrel that is just as out of spec as the first . Ever heard the definition of insanity ? Sending it back and expecting a different result would be the unreasonable part . Expecting something better then I have now from a different manufacture seems reasonable . I've already explained why I'm keeping it . It's not for the bad parts , it's for the other good parts I couldn't replace for the price I'm out of pocket now .

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It's great when they make things that do better than that, and generally we expect them to be better than that, but unless the maker specifically states otherwise, they aren't breaking their word if you can only shoot new factory ammo ONCE.
I can't say I disagree but that one case out of the fifty I shot was dangerously close to failure . EDIT which was from the old barrel So if I shoot 10k rounds through it new barrel which is not unreasonable . 200 of those "may be" dangerously close to failing when fired . Knowing the new barrel seems to be spec'ed about the same . That's not a small number to think about . Do any of you have a rifle that when you fire it you think this "REALLY" has a chance of failing if I pull the trigger because the factory ammo I'm using may not be right for the chamber . I mean that first shot fired in the second test was with me holding it in one hand and the hand guard in a rest with me leaning away from the firearm . I really didn't want to be anywhere near the gun when it fired . Even after that I was not comfortable firing the rifle . I only held the rifle semi properly on the last three shots and was still a little hesitant .

This wont be the case when I load custom ammo that fits the chamber properly . I believe I'll be much more comfortable shooting my reloads in this rifle then I will shooting any factory ammo . In theory it should be the other way around .
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Old July 28, 2019, 02:52 PM   #80
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Generally speaking, Win brass is thinner , but tougher than commercial Fed or Rem factory brass. Federal is thicker, but softer. Rem is thicker, but less elastic. Either way and depending on dies used, the greater expansion may only occur once.

For all the effort/time/expense required, am using accurate bullets for the rifles capable/expected of good accuracy. Am not defining 1.5-2 moa as "accurate". Still load the 147's, but for open sighted FAL/short M1a.
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Old July 28, 2019, 04:26 PM   #81
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I didn't say exchange/repair--I said return --as in refund your money which they already have agreed to do. Do it before they change their minds. Your plan to fire "custom stretched brass" does not sound like a good one to me. When I see brand new cartridges bulge like that, the first thing I think of is cartridge not properly in battery.
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Old July 28, 2019, 04:50 PM   #82
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"I’ve only fired those 10 shots in the PA-10 and not going to shoot any more today . I will say the cases are coming out way better looking with no tool marks compared to the last barrel . This one has a much smoother chamber . I also do not see any bloating at the web at this time ."

Maybe i am confused, but the pics are of brass from the original barrel, and the new barrel passed a field gage test? Nothing i see says the new barrel is unsafe, and no pics of brass from the new barrel.

Don't like the barrel and they offered to take it back, so send the upper back. Otherwise, it might be just unnecessary drama.
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Old July 28, 2019, 05:41 PM   #83
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Don't like the barrel and they offered to take it back, so send the upper back. Otherwise, it might be just unnecessary drama.
There is zero drama her unless people are looking past my point . I like the upper receiver it mates well with my current lower . The free float rail is really good . Carrier seems well built , gas block seems gtg , gas tube is good . My thinking is simple but seems to be getting lost in the "drama" . Why start a new , I have most of what I need already at a cost I can't duplicate buying the parts individually .

Quote:
Your plan to fire "custom stretched brass" does not sound like a good one to me.
Here is another thing that has nothing wrong with it . It's no different then making a wild cat cartridge really , then using that brass for the new chamber size . In this case all I'm doing is starting with cases that are closer to what I want then the 2 , 3 , 4 up to 10 times fired cases I use now that are sized and have been sized -.007+ more every time they've been sized then I need for this new rifle . Using all that "old" brass and stretching it "back" out to fit the new rifle is what I feel is unnecessary . Why not start with something that is just about where I want it now that I know has only been fired once . I never got the feeling the gun was firing out of battery and if it did that was the barrel that was replaced .

There is no drama intended at all . I'm just choosing to keep the parts I already have because I can't beat the price I bought them for even if you exclude the barrel . There is nothing more or less to this full stop . THEN , While the old barrel is still on the upper for who knows how long could be couple weeks or maybe up to year ( likely a few months tops , don't have the money in the budget right now just bought bullets lol ), I'll load custom loads for it .

The funny things to me now is now that I've said I'll keep it , I'm hearing things different ( not by the same people ) just different as in . They are not obligated to cut there chambers to SAAMI spec . They tested it and said it's safe . It passes there gauges should be GTG . Now that I say ok and I'll size my cases to fit the chamber just as I do with all my rifles ( 223, 5.56 , 270 , 30-30 and 308 in multiple rifles in each cartridge ) that might not be a good idea ?

In that respect I guess I see some drama but I'm not trying to create any . Just keeping the parts I like because I don't want to start from scratch and can't do better price wise if I did .

I WENT BACK AND EDITED POST # 79 BECAUSE SOME OF WHAT I WROTE WAS DESEPTIVE AND COULD HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE CONFUSSION .
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Old July 28, 2019, 07:37 PM   #84
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somebody asked about what the cases looked like coming out of the new barrel ?

NEW BARREL


OLD BARREL


Just for kick , before and after cleaning the new ( to me ) LC-15 cases






FWIW the new once fired cases measure .0015 longer then the fire formed cases in the first pic .
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Old July 30, 2019, 04:32 AM   #85
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I picked up one of these uppers back in January in 6.5 Creed and it too had bad tooling marks in the chamber that left the same imprints on the brass. I sent it back and when I received it back from PSA I could still see some of these marks, but when I shot it the brass seemed fine, they just barely showed any signs of a rough chamber. I figured they must have just polished the chamber, while I was a bit disappointed they didn't replace the barrel I was ok with it since it still shot consistently around 5/8"-3/4" groups at a hundred yards. I haven't measured any fired brass to check for excessive stretching but will check them next time I go shooting. Hopefully since it's a different caliber there won't be the same issues you've had with your .308.
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Old August 2, 2019, 03:31 PM   #86
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I hate to say this, but even the guy in thr video from PSA stated that a bolt closing on a no go, means it's not a new rifle/ bolt/ both, and is an indicator of a used condition.... From his own mouth, and that's not in a new condition rifle. Imo

Im going to have my own rifle checked tomorrow after seeing this. It sounds to me like either the bolts out of tolerance, or the barrel. Or, I'm sry to say, but psa can't hold tight tolerances.

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Old August 2, 2019, 07:25 PM   #87
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I hate to say this, but even the guy in thr video from PSA stated that a bolt closing on a no go, means it's not a new rifle/ bolt/ both, and is an indicator of a used condition.
What video is that ? do you have a link ?
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Old August 3, 2019, 08:32 AM   #88
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Its in the previous post he linked a few videos.

I also took my rifle to a smith, who said it also didn't pass the no go. Also the bolt had marks on the lugs that indicated the bolt wasn't in time correct with the barrel extension. And had chips on the lugs thats just not right. And the gas rings are worn out on a brand new rifle with around 300rds. I'm pissed. Contacting PSA now.

edit:

Also, don't know how long it will last but i get treated the gas rings and they work now. Im still ordering a few for back up.

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Old August 8, 2019, 05:30 PM   #89
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Any update on this? I got a flex hone, and polished my chamber out. So if you do that the ring marks should be gone. I'm currently talking to PSA about fixing the issue about the no go chamber. Although I believe they will tell me to pound sand.
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Old August 10, 2019, 09:44 PM   #90
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I’ve been dealing with a sick family member all the way up to the night before I left on vacation. In Montana right now and will be back next weekend. So that following week will be the time I do anything more with this but I’m still leaning towards keeping it for the parts as explained earlier.

I did load up those custom sized cases for this chamber . I shot 5 groups - 5 shots each . Best group was 2.5 moa worst was 3.5 moa but this was a mild load I had already worked up for another rifle . The load was 168gr BTHP with 41gr IMR 4895 . I might be able to tighten that up if I work that combo up specifically for this rifle .

PSA indicated to me as long as the return was with in 30 days you’re gtg . After that im not sure what they’ll do .
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Last edited by Metal god; August 11, 2019 at 01:09 PM.
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Old August 11, 2019, 01:24 AM   #91
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Also the bolt had marks on the lugs that indicated the bolt wasn't in time correct with the barrel extension.
I once had a barrel I bought from a well-known premium barrel maker, the extension and it's pin were ever-so-slightly out of time; that wreaked havoc with proper bolt lock-up and cycling.
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Old August 11, 2019, 01:13 PM   #92
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Not a problem Metal God. After using the flexhone, and polishing out the chamber, I have zero ring marks on the brass, and extraction is silky smooth.
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