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Old September 13, 2017, 08:42 PM   #26
mavracer
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How many basic ARs are capable of one MOA, right out of the box?
It's not hard to get a reasonably priced AR to shoot MOA with decent ammo, just need a fairly good barrel a free float handguard and a good trigger.
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Old September 14, 2017, 11:33 AM   #27
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It's not hard to get a reasonably priced AR to shoot MOA with decent ammo
Custom hand loads?
I haven't seen this accuracy reliably with any of the basic models. Push $1000 and, sure, but at the closer to $500 I haven't personally seen it, heard it, or read it on the interwebs.
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Old September 14, 2017, 07:48 PM   #28
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Custom hand loads?
Not at all, I've had very good results with Fiocchi Exrema 77gr SMK.
And yeah most basic ARs are of the M4ish variety don't have freefloat handguards and 5.56 NATO chambers, but there are some available that have Wylde chambered stainless barrels and are free floated.
Was on PSA's site they have a 18" kit for $499 that should easily be MOA.
I used a cheap AR Stoner barrel $119 on sale for my optic service match build and it'll do sub MOA with the aforementioned Fiocchi ammo.
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originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
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Old September 15, 2017, 01:04 AM   #29
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My .223 varmint rifle is 3x as heavy as an AR15. The weight makes it more stable on the bi-pod and heat up slower on the down side it also takes longer to cool. It's a different tool for a different job...

I still want an AR and will get one when funds allow.

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Old September 15, 2017, 01:59 AM   #30
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Don't wait too long for that AR Geezerbiker, prices are pretty low right now...maybe rock bottom but for sure I'm no real judge of that.

Even Cabela's has a $400 AR. Plus you can get 5% off if you're a military veteran.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/ANDER...LE/2392846.uts
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Old September 15, 2017, 05:21 AM   #31
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Adjusted for inflation--I have NEVER seen AR prices as low as they are now!
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Old September 15, 2017, 05:31 AM   #32
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My .223 varmint rifle is 3x as heavy as an AR15. The weight makes it more stable on the bi-pod and heat up slower on the down side it also takes longer to cool. It's a different tool for a different job...
Your varmint rifle weighs more than 30 pounds?
My SDM based service match rifle is over 10
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Quote:
originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
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Old September 15, 2017, 10:16 AM   #33
johnwilliamson062
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Was on PSA's site they have a 18" kit for $499 that should easily be MOA.
I used a cheap AR Stoner barrel $119 on sale for my optic service match build and it'll do sub MOA with the aforementioned Fiocchi ammo.
You are talking about building a rifle. That includes numerous other costs. Tools, attaining knowledge, time, etc. I assume the kit also lacks a lower which is going to add cost.
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Old September 15, 2017, 11:29 AM   #34
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That includes numerous other costs. Tools, attaining knowledge, time, etc. I assume the kit also lacks a lower which is going to add cost.
Yes it would require a lower about $50 currently and a small hammer and a pin punch prolly $10-$15.
That's well under $1000 and forum rules don't allow me to comment on the mentality of someone incapable of watching a YouTube video and assembling a lower. But they prolly don't need to worry about MOA😉
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originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
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Old September 15, 2017, 11:48 AM   #35
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forum rules don't allow me to comment on the mentality of someone incapable of watching a YouTube video
Good. I won't have to explain the goof-ups I've accomplished.
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Old September 15, 2017, 09:35 PM   #36
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Forum rules don't allow me to comment on the simplicity of someone who put $0 value on their time and won't count the time watching all those youtube videos in their accounting or admit that using basic non-specialized tools without marring items or otherwise buggering things up wastes further time, especially on the first go round. Anyone in said category probably worries too much about MOA.

Some people simply don't want to build one on their own. Mechanical assembly is not a skill required to qualify as a shooter.

Also, there are areas of the country where the transfer costs $50.

But year, you can build one cheaper than you can buy one. You can buy a cheap one and swap the barrel and sometimes that alone will do it.
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Old September 16, 2017, 11:13 AM   #37
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Mechanically, an AR action can certainly hang with a bolt action. The bolt action is still easier to be accurate with though because it has no reciprocating mass.
By the time the BCG on an AR moves the bullet is LONG gone. It takes the pressure pulse behind the bullet to unlock the bolt. That moving mass is irrelevant. Crappy triggers and sloppy chambers hurt AR accuracy, the things that make one ultra reliable hurt accuracy.
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Old September 16, 2017, 11:46 AM   #38
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My stag m6 outshoots my Browning x-bolt. The stags barrel is two inches longer so not the perfect comparison but I am shooting .223 out of each.

I personally believe the bolt gun inherently being more accurate is a total myth. I think the only reason people tend to shoot more accurately with bolt guns is because you need to line each shot up instead of just pulling the trigger over and over.
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Old September 16, 2017, 12:32 PM   #39
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By the time the BCG on an AR moves the bullet is LONG gone. It takes the pressure pulse behind the bullet to unlock the bolt. That moving mass is irrelevant.
You can see bullet impact (and sometimes trace) easier with a bolt, which becomes more important when range estimation and wind are part of the equation; because then you have an idea of what you did wrong when you miss.
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Old September 16, 2017, 02:04 PM   #40
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I personally believe the bolt gun inherently being more accurate is a total myth.
It's not total myth. It's just not the universal truth it once was....
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Old September 17, 2017, 07:45 AM   #41
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You can see bullet impact (and sometimes trace) easier with a bolt, which becomes more important when range estimation and wind are part of the equation; because then you have an idea of what you did wrong when you miss.
That may be true for you, it does not however indicate accuracy potential. I have found it is far easier to get an AR accurate than a bolt gun. I built a 1/2 MOA AR and like a fool traded it during a fit of I gotta have THIS gun.......
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Old September 17, 2017, 09:12 AM   #42
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Forum rules don't allow me to comment on the simplicity of someone who put $0 value on their time and won't count the time watching all those youtube videos in their accounting
I usually watch videos on break so in essence I'm getting paid so +$
Quote:
Also, there are areas of the country where the transfer costs $50.
Not really a plus for your argument in OP'z situation since now you're suggesting a second FFL tfr fee buying a bolt instead of just accurizing his AR.
Quote:
You can see bullet impact (and sometimes trace) easier with a bolt,
Bovine Feces an AR's inline setup of barrel, bolt, spring and buffer produces less barrel rise. It's what makes them a more effective full auto weapon.
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Quote:
originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
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