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Old September 12, 2017, 05:18 PM   #1
Centurion
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Problem with a conversion cylinder

Bought a new pietta new army remington copy. With the conventional cylinders it functions normally...but when I use the conversion cylinder from my pietta bison it doesn't move. And only with the conversion cylinder because the standard one does function very well.
Standard cylinders are six shooters, conversion one is for five.
Wich could be the problem? Maybe have to change the bolt? In any case it is very strange that all cylinders work in my bison but only the C&B ones function in this NMA...

Any suggestion?
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Old September 12, 2017, 05:20 PM   #2
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I can't help you with your issue, but if that Pietta Bison is a brass frame then I HIGHLY recommend you not use a conversion cylinder in it. That brass frame won't stand up to much cartridge use, ESPECIALLY with smokeless ammunition. At best you'll ruin your gun, and at worse, you'll hurt yourself or someone else.
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Old September 12, 2017, 05:46 PM   #3
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Probably not the bolt. More likely, the hand. Try swapping hands with the bison.
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Old September 12, 2017, 05:56 PM   #4
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I did it...and the problem remains...
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Old September 13, 2017, 07:53 AM   #5
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There could be several things all contributing to the problem. Bolt issues usually create a lockup/timing problem, but the cylinder should still rotate as long as the bolt isn't engaging a stop notch when the hammer is down. If the bolt isn't causing a lockup problem with one cylinder, it shouldn't be a problem with another. Is the conversion cylinder a Howell type, or Kirst? If the cylinder is a much tighter fit, it's ratchet face is probably binding the hand. You may want to send it off to be fitted by Howell, Taylors, Kirst, depending on who made it.
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Old September 13, 2017, 10:41 AM   #6
EphraimKibbey
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Is the conversion cylinder not moving in that:
1. it is stuck by binding inside the frame?
2. it is loose and slides forward away from the hand?
3. the bolt stop is stuck in a too narrow notch?
If you have a newly made Pietta, I hear they reconfigured the colt grip tail so maybe they changed something else as well in their NMA's.
Measure the cylinders and compare their rear ratchets.
When you find the difference, you will know where to seek a remedy.

As was mentioned above, all conversion cylinders come with a warning that they are not to be used in brass frames!!!
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Old September 13, 2017, 12:04 PM   #7
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Below my answers colleague:

1. Nope, because it is the same length of the C&B ones.


2. No, if I put it into the revolver with the hammer at half position, it cycles as normal. Then, I get the hammer to cocking position and the cylinder moves and engages the bolt notch on time. But after the hammer fall and shot, the cylinder gets stuck and cocking again the hammer is totally impossible. I suppose if the problem is the bolt, it shouldn't function with any other cylinder.

3. the bolt stop is stuck in a too narrow notch? Nope, this is not the problem, the bolt stop measures the same of that in the Bison. And installed in the Bison, the cylinder functions...

If you have a newly made Pietta, I hear they reconfigured the colt grip tail so maybe they changed something else as well in their NMA's. Mine is an old one, 1988 made. Maybe the RD cylinder it is not intended to be used with older revolvers.

Measure the cylinders and compare their rear ratchets. This could be the problem, since the C&B cylinders have 6 ratchets, and only 5 the RD. But I disregard this issue because the Bison makes both kind of cylinders to cycle normally.
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Old September 13, 2017, 01:31 PM   #8
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So, your "new" Pietta 1858 was made in 1988?

Last edited by noelf2; September 13, 2017 at 01:52 PM.
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Old September 13, 2017, 01:40 PM   #9
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It is new for me...and the initial owner never made a shot with it...so it is new, even being manufactured in 1988...LOL
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Old September 13, 2017, 01:54 PM   #10
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Howells makes the 5 shot remmy cylinder. On their website they ask if your gun is over 10 years old. There must be some differences in tolerance with older guns, so they have options for new and old guns. Maybe you got the wrong option.
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Old September 13, 2017, 02:02 PM   #11
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Then...that must to be the point!
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Old September 13, 2017, 02:03 PM   #12
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I'll write them directly...many thanks!
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Old September 13, 2017, 06:35 PM   #13
45 Dragoon
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I think your problem is the bolt not resetting. The lock notches in the conversion cyls are not as deep as the cap cyls. Since that leaves the bolt arm at a lower angle, it can't reset on top of the hammer cam and thus, the cylinder stays locked.

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Old September 13, 2017, 07:48 PM   #14
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Dragoon is right, the problem is the bolt/cylinder stop, not the hand.

I bought a Pietta NMA couple years ago and a Taylor's conversion cylinder. Yes, different cylinder, but the issue is the same regardless. The slots on the conversion cylinders are not milled as deeply as the c&b cylinders because the .45 Colt cartridge's diameter is about .480" while the hole diameter for the Pietta C&B cylinders is a bit over .450", thus to keep the slot from breaking through into the chamber, it has to be shallower than normal.

The bolt needs to be modified. I paid Taylor's to send me a proper bolt to use with their cylinder, that way I still had the bolt for the percussion cylinder for when I want to shoot a lot of black powder. The modified bolts will still work with the percussion cylinder, so you don't have to switch back and forth every time.
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Old September 14, 2017, 08:12 AM   #15
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Finally fixed it by reducing the bolt head height. Now it is functional with both cylinders.

Thanks all for your help on open my eyes to possible solutions!
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Old September 14, 2017, 08:35 AM   #16
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Care should be taken doing that. The bolt head should fully engage the notch which may be minimal now in the cap cyls. Throw-by and even "un-locking" from hammer fall could be a result.
I run into that sometimes with ancient ASM Dragoons/Walkers that have been "doctored". Adding material back the the bolt head is needed at that point.

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Old September 14, 2017, 08:48 AM   #17
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I considered that and will test functioning of C&B cylinders with small powder charges...
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Old September 14, 2017, 09:02 AM   #18
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Anyway tried to move it once in place and it is impossible
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Old September 14, 2017, 09:35 AM   #19
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I had the shallow cylinder stop notch issue with a remmy conversion cylinder a while back. The cylinder would rotate, but would backtrack during hammer fall. That was a 6 shot R&D. That was fixed by shaping the bolt leg. Total lockup after hammer fall? I havent seen as a bolt issue but modding the bolt fixed it, so marking down that knowldge. A month ago I bought a fluted conversion cylinder from Howells, 5 shot, and had no problem with it in a newer remmy. It's hit and miss with the conversions.

Last edited by noelf2; September 14, 2017 at 09:42 AM.
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