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Old September 8, 2020, 12:12 PM   #1
burbank_jung
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Paper patch accuracy

I haven't received a response on paper patching from the reloading forum.

I know that you BP shooters use paper patches and want to know how accurate they are at 100 yards. My plan is to paper patch .308 cast bullets using range lead and size it up to .312. I suppose I need to lube a paper patched bullet an then run it through a .312 sizing die, yes?
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Old September 8, 2020, 04:43 PM   #2
arcticap
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I don't know much about paper patching but by looking at a short PP sizing thread on Castboolits, it seems that you're correct.
The only detail not mentioned in this thread is whether the patches are actually lubed before sizing. --->>> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...izing-question
From previously reading other PP threads I think that they are.
Castboolits has a BP PP forum that can also be asked.

Last edited by arcticap; September 8, 2020 at 04:53 PM.
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Old September 8, 2020, 09:43 PM   #3
Hawg
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A paper patched bullet shouldn't need sizing.
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Old September 9, 2020, 01:45 AM   #4
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I saw a video a while back on paper patch bullets in .308 on you tube for what its worth, also the guy from Midway USA has a short video on paper patch bullets, check them out.
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Old September 10, 2020, 02:52 PM   #5
Deltadart
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The bullet must be sized prior to applying the paper patch. The 9 pound onion skin paper I have adds about .006 to the diameter of the finished bullet. Lube will soften the paper so when being pushed thru the die, it will often tear, care must be taken if you want to do that. I do not size the finished bullet, and lube with Neatsfoot oil on both .38-55 & .45-70. Paul Matthews has an excellent book called "The Paper Jacket".
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Old September 10, 2020, 03:11 PM   #6
arcticap
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I checked posts by a well known paper patcher named idahoron on another website and he doesn't lube the paper when sizing the paper patched bullet.
But the bullet does have paper on it when he sizes it.
He also mentioned in another thread that he [generally] uses paper that has cotton in it, and that he expects the paper to fall off after it's fired or it can affect accuracy.

He stated:
" I don’t use any lube on the paper when I am sizing the paper patched bullet. The reason is the lube can and does cause the paper to rip off the bullet when seating the bullet. I size dry and add some lube when I am target shooting but leave them dry when I am hunting. " --->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bla...-part-2-a.html

He's shoots muzzle loaders and it would seem that he doesn't want to contaminate the powder charge with lube.
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Old September 11, 2020, 09:45 AM   #7
arcticap
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idahoron had also posted this info. about lubing the paper patched bullets for sizing. --->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bla...ures-long.html

"The bullets need lube to go through the sizer die before the paper is put on. After the bullets are wrapped they need just a very little amount to go through the sizer with the paper on."

That could mean that the lube already under the paper is sufficient or only a little bit more lube is needed to size the patched bullet.

Perhaps not everyone uses the same type or amount of paper, or the same procedure for every type of bullet, and that the method is based on situational needs.

For anyone interested, idahoron posted additional info. about paper patching and how to wrap bullets in these threads:

1. https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bla...-part-1-a.html

2. https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bla...-idahoron.html

Some have mentioned experimenting with using teflon tape to increase the diameter of a bullet.
And the teflon tape could simply be wrapped around only the mid-section of the bullet, just enough to hold it in the bore which would make starting and ramming it easier than if the whole bullet were over-wrapped.
The idea is that a person would need to experiment to avoid over-wrapping the entire bullet which could make it too difficult to ram.

Last edited by arcticap; September 14, 2020 at 05:45 AM.
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Old September 13, 2020, 09:05 PM   #8
woodnbow
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I’m beginning on this journey myself. So far I am not lubing the patched bullet as I resize them, mine are sized .395, then patched with 9# 25% rag paper and run through a .401 die. This seems to set the paper onto the bullet. I have used an over powder card wad but it adds nothing to the load so far. 65 grains of 3f Swiss is working very well for me.
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Old September 14, 2020, 08:32 PM   #9
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Paper patch bullets are "bore riders", meaning they are approximately bore diameter and the paper patch makes up the difference in size for the groove diameter while gripping the bullet firmly enough to spin it using the paper in the grooves as a gas seal and the paper forcing into the bullet to spin it. I used to load paper patched bullets for my 11X60R 1871 Mauser, .439" bore and .448" groove. Used .437" bullets wrapped in 20 lb linen paper and sized to .450" after patching. Generally, two revolutions of damp bond or linen paper, approximately up to the bullet ogive, waxed after drying to keep it stuck to the bullet, with the ends tucked neatly behind the base. Load into flared cases, crimped to retain.

So, to answer the OP question, you are going to have to use a .300" hollow based bullet, wrap it in paper that is about .002" thick, lube with smokeless lube. I am not sure where you are going to find bullets, but Missouri Bullets used to sell paper patching bullets. Don't use Teflon anything in rifle bores, it builds up unevenly and can cause accuracy problems. Or reconsider and just shoot gas checked bullets.
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Old September 14, 2020, 09:54 PM   #10
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Takes a whole lot of enthusiasm and patience to learn how to P/P correctly. When a learned P/P'er explains how to proceed step by step many interested enthuses don't listen. They do what they think is appropriate for them. Keep in mind a developed P/P recipe can almost match smokeless velocity w/ accuracy. But if a rookie Patcher purposely drops his P/P'ing velocity 1000 fps so to achieve decent accuracy. He didn't learn those techniques from those whom tutored me.
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Old September 15, 2020, 03:12 PM   #11
reinert
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A few weeks ago now, I traded a good friend an old rifle I had, for an old rifle he had. He got my #4 Perfection Ballard in 38-55, and I got his Remington roller #1 sporting rifle in .44/77 cal. (with the "rough and ready" barrel peep sight, too!). I've always wanted to paper patch an old traditional cartridge rifle, so now I got one, and this rifle has an excellent bore to work with. I had a visit to the cast boolit site and the good fellers there gave me some great info on what I needed to get the ball rolling to get the old roller shooting a proper pp loading. Since I've never paper patched a round before, I'm in no hurry to to rush the project. My plan is to get all the right info to Steve Brooks to build me a mould for the old Remington. I've slugged the bore, and will no doubt do a chamber cast in the near future to make sure I get the right mould, hopefully the first time around. I know if I get the right info to Steve, he'll make a fine mould for the gun. Just stuff in the works right now.

I got a 500 grn., .446" grease groove mould with the rifle, so when I get my bullet factory set up, I can run a bunch, and maybe even hunt with the old roller a bit this fall before I get on the pp project. For right now, just a bunch of fun, with an old gun. And black powder only in this old rifle, as it should be...
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Old September 21, 2020, 05:57 AM   #12
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I tried PP'ing for my 1874 Sharps and eventually stopped. I eventually realized that PP takes a master skill to read the fired paper, and reading the muzzle "star", and takes a LOT of trial and error. I tried to stay with it but could not get better consistency than shooting "greasers" which are easier to load. I have all intentions of revisiting PP'ing post retirement when I can spend the needed time to do it right.
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