Help needed with regards to this Shotshell

AwayToTheRange · January 21, 2022, 03:44 PM

Hello,
I am trying to help answer a question about this shell. The Lead pallets, are they covered in real gold or not? Has anyone come across something similar?

The data I got it from a clip that came up recently:

Made by IMI Vigevano Italia.
Lead total weight is 35 or 36 grams
caliber 12G x 65, No.5
product name, Gold 5, IMI Caccia
YoM is 1960 to 1970
Thanks

Schlitz 45 · January 21, 2022, 04:29 PM

Looks like brass BB’s to me.

Jim Watson · January 21, 2022, 10:12 PM

Not gold, see the corroded pellets in picture 2.
I think brass plated lead. I have seen copper and nickel plated lead shot to increase penetration, no reason brass would not work.

jmr40 · January 21, 2022, 10:39 PM

Copper plated. Those are not uncommon today. Maybe cutting edge in 1970.

The idea is to get better patterns. As pellets move through the barrel many of the soft lead pellets will be deformed. After they leave the muzzle those not round will fly in an erratic pattern. Plating the pellets with copper makes them harder and less likely to deform giving tighter patterns. That is pretty standard for shells designed for turkey hunting

AwayToTheRange · January 22, 2022, 03:32 AM

Hello Everyone. Copper plated seams to be reasonable.

One issue that comes to mind is that considering they are 50 years old, would the copper plating remain so bright, so golden like? I looked at the dismantling clip online and the pallets look as if these left the factory line last week.

Be nice if one could come across some documentation.

FITASC · January 22, 2022, 10:45 AM

They have been sealed inside the shotshell, no reason to think they wouldn't be bright still

AwayToTheRange · January 24, 2022, 03:50 PM

Hello Everyone,
My question has been answered since a new clip came up online, clearly indication that the pallets are plated in 24 carat gold. I am so happy because I personally own 1 of these in mint condition but with No.7 pallets not No5. Anyone interested here is the clip with the testing of the pallets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0JaH7Xh3K8

Thanks

DaleA · January 24, 2022, 04:47 PM

I must admit of all the ways to bling out a shotgun gold-plated shot had never occurred to me.

Personally for me it wouldn't work out well. I mean, fire a shot, go down range to retrieve the pellets, fire a shot, go down range...etc., etc.

Thanks, I think, for bringing this up. Something I'd never even heard of before, although I guess I should admit that's really not hard to do.

bladesmith 1 · January 31, 2022, 12:38 PM

I think you're mistaken with the cost of gold. Why in the world would anyone want to plate shotgun BBs with gold ? Gold is a very soft metal. There would be no advantage of gold plating or all gold BBs.

AwayToTheRange · January 31, 2022, 01:31 PM

No mistake here, plating is real and it is real 24k gold plating. This manufacturer did these in the 1970's supposedly to increase the distance of the shot.

Bill DeShivs · February 1, 2022, 02:24 PM

24k gold is about the same hardness as lead.

stuckinthe60s · February 21, 2022, 07:21 AM

sell it and see what you get. dollar to donut its fools gold plated.

bladesmith 1 · February 21, 2022, 02:09 PM

Away to the range - did you actually have some and test them ? Or just relying on some advertising hype ?

AwayToTheRange · February 22, 2022, 04:55 AM

Bladesmith 1 - On this same thread published on the 24th January I posted a link to the test that the same person who dismantled a similar shell put online. Here are both the link. Personally, I am satisfied that it is gold.

https://youtu.be/pkQBFaRV5fY
https://youtu.be/G0JaH7Xh3K8

Bill DeShivs · February 23, 2022, 11:39 PM

Of course you're satisfied it's gold plating. Because that's what you want to believe.
But, it's not.
And it's "Karat", not carat.
There is no reason to plate lead shot with gold that is just as soft as lead. I do gold plating quite frequently, and know just a little bit about it.
The video showing the gold testing solution was not even done properly.

AwayToTheRange · February 24, 2022, 02:01 AM

(Bill DeShivs, I am convinced and it seams to me you are an expert, so I yield to your extensive and vast experience in the matter. Thanks for sharing your valued time and knowledge with the rest of us. With regards to your comment about Carat and not Karat, let me politely suggest you refine your researched on the subject as both terms are grammatically correct and both terms are used in your industry. As a matter of fact, Karat came from Carat. Ok than, have a wonderful day SIR.)

To the Community:
Personally, I am satisfied and have done extensive research that it is Gold plated and that the manufacturer had more than a singular reason to plate the lead. Reasons that some might be ignorant about.

THIS WILL BE MY LAST ENTRY ON THIS POST as I perceive no more added value coming from it beyond this point.

Regards to ALL who contributed.

DukeConnor · February 24, 2022, 06:20 AM

The famous golden bb

Bill DeShivs · February 24, 2022, 01:35 PM

Karat is used for gold purity.
Carat is a weight.
Is 45 years in the jewelry industry research enough?

Ricklin · February 27, 2022, 12:39 PM

While Gold has always been dear, the current price per ounce is very high.

While costly when the shell was made, Gold has greatly increased since then, far more than "inflation"

I have seen claims that plated shot will pull fewer feathers in to those birds that make it to the dinner plate.

Look at the cost of non toxic waterfowl loads. 4-5 bucks per round? I don't find it at all hard to believe that a manufacturer may have tried gold plating shot in the past.
Not to mention that gold plating can be very very thin. Not as costly as we might think today, I can remember when gold was what, 38 bucks an ounce?

January 21, 2022, 10:39 PM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	Copper plated. Those are not uncommon today. Maybe cutting edge in 1970. The idea is to get better patterns. As pellets move through the barrel many of the soft lead pellets will be deformed. After they leave the muzzle those not round will fly in an erratic pattern. Plating the pellets with copper makes them harder and less likely to deform giving tighter patterns. That is pretty standard for shells designed for turkey hunting __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

January 22, 2022, 10:45 AM	#6
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,441	They have been sealed inside the shotshell, no reason to think they wouldn't be bright still __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

February 1, 2022, 02:24 PM	#11
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	24k gold is about the same hardness as lead. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 21, 2022, 07:21 AM	#12
stuckinthe60s Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2017 Location: Va., Ct., Mo.. Posts: 877	sell it and see what you get. dollar to donut its fools gold plated. __________________ Retired Military Aviation Former Member Navy Shooting Team Distinguished Pistol Shot,NRA Shotgun/Pistol Instructor NSSA All American, Skeet/Trap Range Owner

February 23, 2022, 11:39 PM	#15
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Of course you're satisfied it's gold plating. Because that's what you want to believe. But, it's not. And it's "Karat", not carat. There is no reason to plate lead shot with gold that is just as soft as lead. I do gold plating quite frequently, and know just a little bit about it. The video showing the gold testing solution was not even done properly. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

January 21, 2022, 04:29 PM	#2
Schlitz 45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2018 Location: Colorado Posts: 385	Looks like brass BB’s to me.

January 21, 2022, 10:12 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Not gold, see the corroded pellets in picture 2. I think brass plated lead. I have seen copper and nickel plated lead shot to increase penetration, no reason brass would not work.

January 22, 2022, 03:32 AM	#5
AwayToTheRange Member Join Date: September 29, 2021 Posts: 19	Hello Everyone. Copper plated seams to be reasonable. One issue that comes to mind is that considering they are 50 years old, would the copper plating remain so bright, so golden like? I looked at the dismantling clip online and the pallets look as if these left the factory line last week. Be nice if one could come across some documentation.

January 24, 2022, 03:50 PM	#7
AwayToTheRange Member Join Date: September 29, 2021 Posts: 19	Hello Everyone, My question has been answered since a new clip came up online, clearly indication that the pallets are plated in 24 carat gold. I am so happy because I personally own 1 of these in mint condition but with No.7 pallets not No5. Anyone interested here is the clip with the testing of the pallets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0JaH7Xh3K8 Thanks

January 24, 2022, 04:47 PM	#8
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	I must admit of all the ways to bling out a shotgun gold-plated shot had never occurred to me. Personally for me it wouldn't work out well. I mean, fire a shot, go down range to retrieve the pellets, fire a shot, go down range...etc., etc. Thanks, I think, for bringing this up. Something I'd never even heard of before, although I guess I should admit that's really not hard to do.

January 31, 2022, 12:38 PM	#9
bladesmith 1 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 240	I think you're mistaken with the cost of gold. Why in the world would anyone want to plate shotgun BBs with gold ? Gold is a very soft metal. There would be no advantage of gold plating or all gold BBs.

January 31, 2022, 01:31 PM	#10
AwayToTheRange Member Join Date: September 29, 2021 Posts: 19	No mistake here, plating is real and it is real 24k gold plating. This manufacturer did these in the 1970's supposedly to increase the distance of the shot.

February 21, 2022, 02:09 PM	#13
bladesmith 1 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 240	Away to the range - did you actually have some and test them ? Or just relying on some advertising hype ?

February 22, 2022, 04:55 AM	#14
AwayToTheRange Member Join Date: September 29, 2021 Posts: 19	Bladesmith 1 - On this same thread published on the 24th January I posted a link to the test that the same person who dismantled a similar shell put online. Here are both the link. Personally, I am satisfied that it is gold. https://youtu.be/pkQBFaRV5fY https://youtu.be/G0JaH7Xh3K8

February 24, 2022, 02:01 AM	#16
AwayToTheRange Member Join Date: September 29, 2021 Posts: 19	(Bill DeShivs, I am convinced and it seams to me you are an expert, so I yield to your extensive and vast experience in the matter. Thanks for sharing your valued time and knowledge with the rest of us. With regards to your comment about Carat and not Karat, let me politely suggest you refine your researched on the subject as both terms are grammatically correct and both terms are used in your industry. As a matter of fact, Karat came from Carat. Ok than, have a wonderful day SIR.) To the Community: Personally, I am satisfied and have done extensive research that it is Gold plated and that the manufacturer had more than a singular reason to plate the lead. Reasons that some might be ignorant about. THIS WILL BE MY LAST ENTRY ON THIS POST as I perceive no more added value coming from it beyond this point. Regards to ALL who contributed. Last edited by AwayToTheRange; February 24, 2022 at 02:55 AM.

February 24, 2022, 06:20 AM	#17
DukeConnor Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2016 Posts: 224	The famous golden bb

February 24, 2022, 01:35 PM	#18
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Karat is used for gold purity. Carat is a weight. Is 45 years in the jewelry industry research enough? __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

February 27, 2022, 12:39 PM	#19
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	Don't doubt it While Gold has always been dear, the current price per ounce is very high. While costly when the shell was made, Gold has greatly increased since then, far more than "inflation" I have seen claims that plated shot will pull fewer feathers in to those birds that make it to the dinner plate. Look at the cost of non toxic waterfowl loads. 4-5 bucks per round? I don't find it at all hard to believe that a manufacturer may have tried gold plating shot in the past. Not to mention that gold plating can be very very thin. Not as costly as we might think today, I can remember when gold was what, 38 bucks an ounce? __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free