Roles of Springs in Recoil and Feeding of the 1911 Government

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Walt Sherrill

A light recoil spring would let a bit more of the recoil force pass to the shooter (as less is stored in the spring), and the slide would cycle a bit more quickly; a heavier spring would slow the slide down a bit as it moves to the rear, storing a bit more of that force, and using it when the slide slams forward (with a bit more force.) I suspect the DURATION of the recoil experience would be the biggest felt difference. A sharp snap vs. a longer push might be experienced with some springs.

Actually, it's just the opposite. Remember, "cycle" encompasses the entire cycle, from firing to slide retraction, to hammer cocking, to slide returning, to stripping and chambering the next round, to closing the action and returning to battery.

I've played with recoil springs in 1911s a lot. Probably not as much as 1911Tuner, but ... a lot. A light recoil (return) spring may initially allow the slide to retract faster but, overall, the lighter the spring, the slower and lazier the cycle. I once had the opportunity to test a high-end 9mm competition 1911. The cycling was so slow that at times I felt like I should reach out with my weak hand and give the slide a boost.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by Walt Sherrill

A light recoil spring would let a bit more of the recoil force pass to the shooter (as less is stored in the spring), and the slide would cycle a bit more quickly; a heavier spring would slow the slide down a bit as it moves to the rear, storing a bit more of that force, and using it when the slide slams forward (with a bit more force.) I suspect the DURATION of the recoil experience would be the biggest felt difference. A sharp snap vs. a longer push might be experienced with some springs.

I'll bow to your greater experience on this point, but wonder why the folks who want a faster cycling gun in the gun games often go to lighter springs augmented with buffers? (In one case, a very light recoil spring and TWO BUFFERS where one might normally be used.) They feel the guns thus modified cycle faster and have a bit less muzzle rise. (Maybe the speed isn't as important to them as muzzle rise?) I would expect most guns to work in a similar manner, so maybe i just got (or heard or only understood) part of the story...

I do believe that the slide will slam forward with greater force when using a heavier recoil spring (which I think would that probably means greater speed) when using a heavier recoil spring... but I always felt that the trip going back (pushing the slide back) took longer because of the stronger spring when using the same ammo.

As for me, I tend to go with the lightest recoil springs that allow my gun to function well with the ammo I use -- as I don't like to have to use a bumper jack when I rack the slide.

[Slopemeno]

The big advantage to lighter recoil springs is less muzzle-dip as the slide goes forward, which makes it easier to track your sights.

I also used two shockbuffs when I was shooting steel with some really light .45 ammo. The slide couldn't go to slidelock so I only used two on our 5-shot, revolver neutral steel matches.

[Nanuk]

A little knowledge can be dangerous.

[45_auto]

Originally Posted by josh smith

Measure the velocity of a car on a straightaway with a certain throttle position.

If you put a 2000lb load on that same car, give it the same throttle position under the same conditions, it will take longer to reach top speed and the top speed will be slower than without the load.

To what are you attributing the lower top speed due to additional mass? Increased aerodynamic drag from the shape of the added mass? Increased wheel bearing drag from the higher load?

[Aguila Blanca]

Josh Smith expressed it badly, because his discussion mixed top speed with fixed speed. For a pre-set throttle position, a heavier vehicle will travel more slowly. That's basic physics. Putting a load inside a vehicle doesn't affect the aerodynamics, but it adds weight. Moving a weight (mass) involves work -- in the sense of "work" as defined in physics as moving a mass through a distance.

More mass ==> more work.

[44 AMP]

Moving a weight (mass) involves work ...

Yep, but if you're driving a 74 Dodge pickup with a 440, hauling a ton of weight or running empty you get the same gas mileage!!

[James K]

"Quote:
7. The slide pauses momentarily at full rearward travel."

"yes, because it hits the frame (recoil spring plug)."

No, it doesn't. Neither the recoil spring plug nor the rear of the recoil spring tunnel hits the frame. (Nothing about the 1911 is as simple as it looks.)

Jim

[Rinspeed]

Originally Posted by Walt Sherrill

I do believe that the slide will slam forward with greater force when using a heavier recoil spring (which I think would that probably means greater speed) when using a heavier recoil spring... but I always felt that the trip going back (pushing the slide back) took longer because of the stronger spring when using the same ammo.

After the bullet is fired though who cares Walt if it takes a split second longer. I guess I'm not quite following. That split second of slower slide speed is very minute compared to the time it takes you to get the sights back to where they were. At least I always thought it was.

[Walt Sherrill]

Originally Posted by Rinspeed

After the bullet is fired though who cares Walt if it takes a split second longer. I guess I'm not quite following. That split second of slower slide speed is very minute compared to the time it takes you to get the sights back to where they were. At least I always thought it was.

I think you're on the same path but maybe going in a different direction than I was.

I'll agree that the time difference (due to slide movement) makes no difference in practical terms (i.e., the gun cycles faster than anyone can pull the trigger, and faster than most of us are likely to get it back on target -- but it can matter to some shooters.

This point was mentioned in the first place only because of the slight differences that can be FELT when using a heavier or lighter recoil spring. Some describe this as the duration of the recoil impulse. Sharper recoil, or more of a push, etc. I must have been misinterpreting what I was feeling, but...

The speed of the slide's movement and the amount of muzzle flip it can create can be affected (and tuned) by recoil springs and buffers. THAT ability to modify muzzle flip apparently matters to some of the more gifted of competitive shooters... as less flip will allow them to get back on target more quickly. (Some feel that a heavier recoil spring can cause the muzzle to DIP more -- as the slide slams forward -- and bringing it back UP make take more time and effort than a slide that doesn't slip as much)

(I'm not adept or "reflex-gifted" enough to take advantage of any such reduction in muzzle flip.)