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Old October 2, 2018, 12:35 PM   #1
Roamin_Wade
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Good Felons?

I have read in Federal law that a person that has committed a felony not involving aggravation and after a large number of years is allowed to have long arms (shotgtuns) in their home for home protection but a guy that fits that bill just tried to buy a shotgun and was denied. How exactly does someone go about acquiring something like a shotgun for home protection in a situation like this? His felony was car theft.
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Old October 2, 2018, 12:44 PM   #2
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He doesn't. Once a felon, always a felon. The only way out is to have the charge pardoned/expunged.

I'm not aware of any exceptions to this rule; where did you read what you're referencing?
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Old October 2, 2018, 01:08 PM   #3
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How exactly does someone go about acquiring something like a shotgun for home protection in a situation like this?
There is no automatic "sunset", once a felon always a felon. HOWEVER, after all legal sentence requirements are completed (time all served, not on parole or probation, etc.) the felon can petition the courts to restore their rights. Getting back the right to vote is relatively simple. Getting back the right to own firearms, isn't as simple.

There is a section of the govt (ATF, I think) that is tasked with doing investigation and review of each case for the court to use in consideration for their ruling.

However, from what I've heard, the govt has essentially refused to fund this for several years, so very little gets done. AND, there is both Federal and state law to consider. The must be appealed to, separately, and there's no guarantee that both will agree.

I've known two people, (not connected in any way), both were prohibited persons due to a youthful "felony stupid" conviction. (non violent)

One had gotten the state to restore his rights, but the Fed never did, so he's still a prohibited person, the other told me the Fed had restored his rights, but the State, wouldn't, so he's still a prohibited person as far as the state is concerned.

It is a time consuming, legal process (and therefore also expensive) and the answer (if you actually get that far) can still be "No!".

Good Luck!
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Old October 2, 2018, 04:44 PM   #4
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About one third of applicants had their gun rights restored. The names were printed in the Federal Register.

Some felons with their gun rights restored went on to commit violent crimes.

Congress defunded the restoration of felons gun rights in 1992 at the request of the Violence Policy Center.

http://vpc.org/publications/putting-...om-disability/

BTW: Allen Gottlieb was convicted of tax evasion and had his gun rights restored.
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Old October 2, 2018, 06:38 PM   #5
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Tim Allen (Home Improvement/Last Man Standing) is an ex-con (non-violent), and at least according to an article I read a few years ago, is still unable to own a gun. He is a gun enthusiast, also according to the article.

As far as the kind of person/citizen he has become since then, He's probably about as close to a 'good felon,' as you're likely to find.
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Old October 2, 2018, 08:23 PM   #6
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How exactly does someone go about acquiring something like a shotgun for home protection in a situation like this?
Expungement.
Pardons are possible, but highly unlikely and unusual.

If you know a non-violent felon that wants to own firearms again, direct them toward a qualified attorney.
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Old October 2, 2018, 10:18 PM   #7
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If you know a non-violent felon that wants to own firearms again, direct them toward a qualified attorney.
This. BTW, I personally am interested in petitioning state and federal lawmakers to make this process much easier for one time non-violent and non-gross property crime felons. There are so many quirks of the law. In my state, larceny of pine straw is literally a felony. So is larceny of crops. I've seen unwitting city dwellers stop on the side of the road to collect souvenir cotton before... Which technically is a felony (though anyone who would charge or prosecute it are special cases themselves). I also agree dumb kids may do stupid stuff, but there should be a means to get completely past it.

Now for folks that robbed people, shot people, or burglarized houses... No IMO.
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Old October 2, 2018, 11:11 PM   #8
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I knwo a couple of men, good men who, when they were younger did some dumb things and earned a felony. Alot of time has pasted for both. One is my very closest friend, he is a good good man, honest as the day is long but did a dumb thing. He years back was shooting my guns and said “manI wish I could own guns” I told him to petition for his rights back, within a month everything was filed. He waited. Got full rights restored. He now owns 5 guns perfectly legally.

He HAD to file. Nothing is given. Except, maybe black powder guns. Check your states laws.
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Old October 2, 2018, 11:26 PM   #9
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Remember the distinction between state and federal. The federal restoration process, which has been unfunded for many years, applies to felony convictions under federal law. Convictions under state laws are subject to whatever restoration of rights processes the particular state may (or may not) have. You wouldn't appeal to the federal government to restore rights rights lost due to a state felony conviction, and you can't appeal a federal conviction to a state authority to get your rights restored.
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Old October 3, 2018, 12:43 PM   #10
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If it is a state felony and they move to another state you think they could then get firearms?
As far as expungement goes, I was arrested for a class A misdemeanor when I was 19, did one year probation and the matter was deferred adjudication. Years later I applied to become a deputy and they said that a mere arrest for a Class A Misdemeanor is a lifelong ban to be a cop or jailer. I was told that even if I got the Governor to expunge it, there would still be an arrest record that would still prevent me from being a cop.

Last edited by Roamin_Wade; October 3, 2018 at 01:29 PM.
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Old October 3, 2018, 11:33 PM   #11
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If it is a state felony and they move to another state you think they could then get firearms?
No.

There are different rules at work here. If you are convicted of something that makes you a prohibited person, by a state, or the Fed, then you are a prohibited person to EVERY state, and the Fed. And it doesn't matter what the actual sentence was, either. The way the law is written if you could have been sentenced to a year, (or more) you're a prohibited person, even if you got probation.

Restoring your rights, it matters who convicted you state or Fed. Its a jurisdiction matter.

Requirements for holding a certain job are an internal bureaucratic matter within the agency/company. They have nothing to do with firearms law.

In the case you mention, if arrest alone is enough to disqualify you, then you're stuck. You cannot unlight a candle.
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Old October 4, 2018, 11:43 AM   #12
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Keep in mind that under federal law, a convicted felon can still possess an "antique firearm" which basically means a muzzle loader made before 1898 or a replica that cannot be readily converted to fire a round from a cartridge. The BATF has an explanation here: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/...aspdf/download

Many states, including my own, do not allow convicted felons to possess even "antique firearms." A muzzle loader is a far-from-perfect self-defense weapon but is still better than throwing small hunks of lead at an aggressor.
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Old October 5, 2018, 01:24 PM   #13
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My case was a class A misdemeanor arrest where I’ll never be allowed to be a cop or jailer in Texas even though I was never convicted. I can buy all the guns I like. I just used that example of a not convicted person and how expunging records sometimes doesn’t work.
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Old October 5, 2018, 05:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamin Wade
If it is a state felony and they move to another state you think they could then get firearms?
No. It's still a felony conviction. My point was that most of the states have a procedure in place to expunge state felony convictions or to restore rights lost due to state felony convictions. But a state can't restore rights lost due to a federal felony conviction, and it is the federal rights restoration process that is unfunded.

If someone moves to another state, they would still have to petition the state in which the conviction occurred for restoration of rights. Unless and until they do that, they still can't buy (or receive, or possess) firearms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romin Wade
My case was a class A misdemeanor arrest where I’ll never be allowed to be a cop or jailer in Texas even though I was never convicted. I can buy all the guns I like. I just used that example of a not convicted person and how expunging records sometimes doesn’t work.
If there's still a record, then it hasn't been "expunged," it has only been pardoned. There is a difference.
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Old October 5, 2018, 05:58 PM   #15
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Roamin_Wade …..Years later I applied to become a deputy and they said that a mere arrest for a Class A Misdemeanor is a lifelong ban to be a cop or jailer....
Not true. A mere arrest doesn't disqualify anyone from anything. It's how the case disposition occurs that impacts the rest of your life.
For example, you are arrested, then charges never filed or not indicted by a grand jury.


Quote:
I was arrested for a class A misdemeanor when I was 19, did one year probation and the matter was deferred adjudication.
And there's the reason...…..your attorney told you to accept deferred adjudication. While not the same as a conviction, you basically admitted you were guilty and promised to behave for a year.


TECLOSE FAQ's http://www.tcole.texas.gov/content/f...sked-questions
Quote:
An adult Class A Misdemeanor conviction or court-ordered community supervision (adjudicated or deferred) is a lifetime disqualification for licensure as a peace officer or jailer in the state of Texas, unless an agency applies for and receives a waiver on your behalf from the Commission.
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Old October 5, 2018, 11:36 PM   #16
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A mere arrest doesn't disqualify anyone from anything.
It most certainly can disqualify you from some things. Arrest alone doesn't disqualify you from a lot of things, arrest alone won't affect your firearms rights, but it can affect your privileges.

But arrest alone, without even any charges being filed CAN be enough to disqualify you for certain jobs.

And in those states that have a "may issue" firearm permit policy, an arrest could be enough for the issuing agent to refuse you issue.

Normally isn't, but could be. Doesn't even have to be an arrest. Supposedly there was a fellow who was in one of those places, and applied for a permit, but he had a history of speeding tickets. All paid, never went to court, but enough for the issuing judge to deem it a "pattern of irresponsibility" and deny the permit.


No, its not a fair, from one point of view, but from the other side, its "protecting the public".
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Old October 7, 2018, 05:26 AM   #17
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Dogtown Tom, I don’t still have the letter of denial from the University of Houston but I promise you, the mere arrest for a Class A misdemeanor is a lifelong ban from being a cop or jailer in Texas. I was never convicted but the fact I was merely arrested for that class of a misdemeanor is in fact a lifetime denial of being a cop. I know it doesn’t sound right but it is. The governor can’t expunge it to the point of it being totally gone. He can expunge it where someone that does a background check won’t find it but any officer that runs my name will still see the arrest. They won’t find out how the case went but they will see that I was arrested for it.
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Old October 7, 2018, 11:28 AM   #18
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The subject of this thread is qualification for possession of firearms -- not for any particular occupation.

Some off topic posts have been removed. Stay on topic please.
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Old October 10, 2018, 10:36 AM   #19
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#1 consult an attorney who specializes in firearms law, they will know the most eloquent solution if one exists.

The problem arising here sounds like the situation where in the course of nics checks the feds do not go back and consult state law for sunset clauses. States with expungement/annulment/rights-restoration methods actually make an update upon rights restoration, ie charge marked as expunged - which is supposed to get such a charge disregarded during a check if applicable..

Some states have expungement/equivalent statutes that don't restore firearms rights. Sometimes even with restored rights the feds screw it up..

Some states do their own checks for handguns that are going to be performed with better respect to state law (ie so one may be able to buy a pistol and a rifle but not a rifle if that makes any sense )..

A lawyer is how to navigate such things.

On an aside this is a major problem with the nics system, they make mistakes that sometimes are in ignorance of the law, the appeals process is a joke, and there is no reasonable way to bring it in front of a judge (if you could simply bring it to a local federal court everything would be much more fair).

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Old October 12, 2018, 12:20 PM   #20
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I know someone who had a gross misdemeanor at the age of 19 and he can't purchase a firearm.

Is that easier to get around (than a felony)?
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Old October 12, 2018, 03:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryptic
I know someone who had a gross misdemeanor at the age of 19 and he can't purchase a firearm.

Is that easier to get around (than a felony)?
That depends on (a) what the misdemeanor was; (b) what the maximum sentence was for that misdemeanor (not what he got, but the maximum he could have gotten); (c) what state it was; and (d) who says he can't purchase a firearm, the BATFE, or the state.

He needs to consult an attorney.
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Old October 14, 2018, 07:07 PM   #22
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Generally, anything with a maximum punishment of more than 12 months is considered a felony for federal purposes.

As an aside, at common law, there was often no maximum punishment for misdemeanors, just any sentence considered appropriate. There is some case law in my state indicating that this is how jury sentencing started --- to be a check on the judge. Most states have gotten away from common law crimes in favor of statutorily defined crimes and sentences.
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Old October 16, 2018, 08:11 PM   #23
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What about a DUI conviction. Cant those carry a three year sentence? Does that make one a prohibited person?

Never had one just asking.
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Old October 16, 2018, 08:34 PM   #24
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fl_rich What about a DUI conviction. Cant those carry a three year sentence? Does that make one a prohibited person?
Any crime where you could have been sentenced to more than a year would make you a prohibited person.
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Old October 17, 2018, 05:26 PM   #25
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What about a DUI conviction. Cant those carry a three year sentence? Does that make one a prohibited person?
Depends upon your state. In my state, the first three are misdemeanors with jail time maxing out at one year. The fourth offense is specified a felony and is punishable by one to five years.
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