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Old October 24, 2017, 06:39 PM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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63yo Man Bodyslams and Disarms Armed Robber - video

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ED-ground.html

I thought this was useful and relevant for three reasons:

1. It demonstrates the threat an unarmed person can pose, even if you have a gun.
2. It shows a real life disarm of an armed robber by an unarmed man almost 30 years his senior.
3. Robert Sakosky (the hero) rightly deserves some celebration, though I doubt I'd have made the same choice.
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Old October 24, 2017, 07:03 PM   #2
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Wow. I wonder what would have happened had the good Samaritan had been armed?
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Old October 24, 2017, 08:23 PM   #3
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Take down yes, body slam no. It still worked.
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Old October 24, 2017, 08:30 PM   #4
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I wonder what would have happened had the good Samaritan had been armed?
Dunno.. maybe just blew his head off. That works to.

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Old October 24, 2017, 08:51 PM   #5
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Old men rock.
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Old October 25, 2017, 07:05 PM   #6
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That's not too far from me. About an hour south. The element of surprise goes a long way.
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Old October 25, 2017, 07:46 PM   #7
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I'm glad it worked out for him, but I think it was a stupid thing to do. It's not his bank or his money. The perp could have easily started shooting from the surprise attack and killed a teller or anyone else in that bank. Just because it worked out the way it did doesn't mean it was a smart thing to do.
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Old October 25, 2017, 10:40 PM   #8
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Son....I don't disagree.
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Old October 25, 2017, 10:47 PM   #9
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He got lucky.
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Old October 26, 2017, 05:56 AM   #10
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I didn't see any information about the background of the 63 year old man. That may have been a trained or conditioned response as a result of his personal history. We talk about the "fight or flight" response that is supposedly built in to our systems, perhaps his immediate reaction was the "fight" mode. He may have seen the presence of a gun as a more immediate danger that had to be dealt with immediately and he was in the position to do so. Job well done, I'd like to shake his hand.
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Old October 26, 2017, 08:11 AM   #11
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I'm glad it worked out for him, but I think it was a stupid thing to do. It's not his bank or his money. The perp could have easily started shooting from the surprise attack and killed a teller or anyone else in that bank. Just because it worked out the way it did doesn't mean it was a smart thing to do
It could of also saved his life or the lives of others. We will never know though.

Quote:
I wonder what would have happened had the good Samaritan had been armed?
We don't know. He could of saved the day or been shot in the process.

Quote:
That may have been a trained or conditioned response as a result of his personal history.
It was hard to see because of the angle but it looked like a pretty standard takedown. That area is a heavy wrestling area so I wouldnt be surprised if he wrestled in his day, had kids that wrestled, etc.
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Old October 26, 2017, 11:46 AM   #12
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It is certainly true that in many cases, if you try to be the hero and it fails, you are going to be the goat. That's part of why we admire heroism.
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Old October 26, 2017, 12:14 PM   #13
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"...Old men rock..." Ahem. 63 isn't old. Gettin' there though. And I keep tellin' ya'll not to mess with us big kids. We have nothing to lose. snicker.
Suspect that guy was a retired flat foot. That looked like a copper trained take down.
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Old October 28, 2017, 11:52 AM   #14
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Tackling is a fairly common manner by which armed folks are rendered harmless or ineffectual. I actually have an active google alert and notifies me of such events as they are reported in the press/internet. This came after a discussion here, years ago, about tackling of active shooters (mass type shootings, shootings during robberies, etc.). https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...light=tackling

He got lucky? Hmmm, it is amazing how many folks "get lucky" doing this, almost like it is a tactic that works very well and is taught in various defensive schools. You can't be a moron about doing it, just like you can't be a moron about drawing your gun during such an event.

Guns are nice, but not everybody carries a gun and the vast majority of gun owners and people licensed to carry or who live in permitless carry states bother to carry or operate in circumstances where they can carry. That is a reality we face today.
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Old October 28, 2017, 01:50 PM   #15
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Not old

63 ain't old, if you are a tree....

Kidding of course as I am getting close to that age. I'm in good shape but do not tackle bad guys.
Not my bank, not my money. I will be a good witness unless it's a direct threat to me or a "loved one" if that happens it's game on.

I do admire those that do. I don't have the training nor the experience. Oftimes things are not as they first appear.
What if the bad guy had an accomplice?
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Old October 28, 2017, 02:05 PM   #16
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Hmmm, I have to wonder about folks present during an armed robbery who don't feel like their lives are being jeopardized.
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Old October 29, 2017, 01:26 PM   #17
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Hmmm, I have to wonder about folks present during an armed robbery who don't feel like their lives are being jeopardized.
Makes one wonder. I have worked on more than one robbery turned hostage situation. We had a merry band running around Ft Worth, TX in the mid 80's executing witnesses.
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Old October 30, 2017, 09:18 AM   #18
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Don't you think you have to consider:

1. Do you fight for someone else's property? Why?
2. Do you fight for your property? Why?
3. Do you fight if you think that is the best option for preventing grievous bodily harm to others? Why?
4. Do you fight to prevent grievous bodily harm to you and your loved ones?

Does ideology, making the world a better place, so you won't feel wussy later, are the others' property or lives worth risking your life?

I couldn't live with myself if I ....

a. didn't do something.
b. were dead.
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Old October 30, 2017, 02:57 PM   #19
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Post #18

...is worth reflecting upon very carefully, and taking to heart.
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Old October 30, 2017, 03:20 PM   #20
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Once the gun is introduced into such a situation by a bad guy, the issue of "other people's property" is not longer relevant in my playbook, not even a consideration. It all becomes an issue of dealing with the threat...not why the threat is there.
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Old October 30, 2017, 03:55 PM   #21
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I saw a video recently about a robbery that occurred at a Wal-Mart. A man and a woman walk into the store and immediately split up. The man pulled out a gun and was spotted by a customer who was carrying, who then started following him. Just when the customer thought he had the bad guy in his sights, the robber's girlfriend walked up behind him and shot him dead. He was the only person shot during the robbery.

That video confirmed for me the belief that, just because I carry a gun doesn't mean it's my place to intervene when something bad happens. I am not the police, not trained how police are trained, and have no interest in being regarded as anyone's hero other than in the eyes of my children (and not because of shooting down a bad guy committing a robbery).

I carry my gun for direct imminent threat when no other option is available to me, including retreat. It isn't to convince myself that I'm tougher than I am. It isn't to use in playing the hero by confronting would be robbers. It isn't to protect the public in general. It's to protect me or my family.
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Old October 30, 2017, 04:03 PM   #22
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They refer to him more as a vigilante than a good samaritan, that bothers me...
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Old October 30, 2017, 04:22 PM   #23
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[QUOTE]Once the gun is introduced into such a situation by a bad guy, the issue of "other people's property" is not longer relevant in my playbook, not even a consideration.[/QUOTEWell, it is true that armed robbery is not a property crime in the eyes of the law,, but the man who intervened had not been and was not threatened, and his action might well have brought harm to someone in a situation that might otherwise have involved only the loss of someone else's property.
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Old October 30, 2017, 04:25 PM   #24
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They refer to him more as a vigilante than a good samaritan, that bothers me...
He was neither.

A good Samaritan renders aid and comfort, attempts to heal, provides transportation. He does not intervene in ongoing encounters.

A vigilante punishes and engages in retribution, unlawfully.
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Old October 30, 2017, 05:03 PM   #25
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Once the gun is introduced into such a situation by a bad guy, the issue of "other people's property" is not longer relevant in my playbook, not even a consideration. It all becomes an issue of dealing with the threat...not why the threat is there.
Bingo.

Quote:
I saw a video recently about a robbery that occurred at a Wal-Mart. A man and a woman walk into the store and immediately split up. The man pulled out a gun and was spotted by a customer who was carrying, who then started following him. Just when the customer thought he had the bad guy in his sights, the robber's girlfriend walked up behind him and shot him dead. He was the only person shot during the robbery.
That was not a robbery. They had just killed two cops in cold blood across the street. Then got into a shootout with cops in wall-mart. Total 5 dead.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/ju...ts-run-wal-ma/
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