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Old February 11, 2014, 12:41 PM   #1
skizzums
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ar pistol lower

hey guys, i wanna build an ar pistol, they have some pretty cheap uppers nowadays, but i hear that you cannot use a lower intended for a rifle, does that mean i need to buy a stripped lower and start from scratch, or can i buy a complete and remove the stock?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/3-0138437
like this ^^

i know this has been discussed before, i just dont recall what the conclusion ended up being

thanks
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Old February 11, 2014, 12:44 PM   #2
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Gotta either buy a lower that is already a pistol or a stripped recvr and make it into a pistol

Cant make a rifle into a pistol w/o going the NFA route

Sorry
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Old February 11, 2014, 01:03 PM   #3
skizzums
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oay, thats cool, it just seems cheaper to buy an already built lower, but i dont mind building one

not sure why they feel they can charge 50$ more for a (pistol only) lower, stupid

actually, i do know why
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Old February 11, 2014, 01:08 PM   #4
Bill DeShivs
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A pistol lower is simply a lower that has never had a stock attached, therefore it has never been a rifle.
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Old February 11, 2014, 01:53 PM   #5
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I thought that the ATF updated the ruling on this stating for AR's and pistols with Mech-Tech uppers, you can switch back and forth between the two, so as long as you followed NFA guid lines... for example, you can't stick a 10'' upper on a lower that has a buffer tube and stock attached, but you can put a 10'' upper on a lower assembled with a smooth pistol buffer tube.
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Old February 11, 2014, 01:57 PM   #6
dogtown tom
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Where do ya'll get this stuff?

Quote:
skizzums hey guys, i wanna build an ar pistol, they have some pretty cheap uppers nowadays, but i hear that you cannot use a lower intended for a rifle, does that mean i need to buy a stripped lower and start from scratch, or can i buy a complete and remove the stock?
Receivers, frames and lowers are "Other firearms".......no such animal as a "pistol lower" or "rifle lower". Read the instructions to Question 18 "Type of Firearm" on the Form 4473.

A rifle must have BOTH a buttstock AND a barrel.........the link you provided shows a lower with a buttstock. You can remove the buttstock and build a pistol with zero problems.




Quote:
Sharkbite Gotta either buy a lower that is already a pistol or a stripped recvr and make it into a pistol
Cant make a rifle into a pistol w/o going the NFA route
Well, being that the firearm in his link IS NOT a rifle he most certainly can make that into a pistol.


Quote:
Bill DeShivs A pistol lower is simply a lower that has never had a stock attached, therefore it has never been a rifle.
Wholly and completely wrong.
There is no such thing as a "pistol lower"..........just "lower". Even if the frame, lower or receiver can only be made into a pistol......it isn't a pistol until completed.


Quote:
skizzums .....not sure why they feel they can charge 50$ more for a (pistol only) lower, stupid
Because there are people who don't know jack squat about what ATF regs actually say.
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Old February 11, 2014, 01:59 PM   #7
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Nevermind I had it backwards, I found my answer on atf.gov
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Old February 11, 2014, 02:00 PM   #8
dogtown tom
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Quote:
HKFan9 I thought that the ATF updated the ruling on this stating for AR's and pistols with Mech-Tech uppers, you can switch back and forth between the two, so as long as you followed NFA guid lines... for example, you can't stick a 10'' upper on a lower that has a buffer tube and stock attached, but you can put a 10'' upper on a lower assembled with a smooth pistol buffer tube.
That ATF determination has nothing to do with the OP's question.......because the OP's firearm is not yet a pistol or rifle.

If the OP builds the firearm as a pistol first, he can subsequently build it into a rifle and later back to a pistol.
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Old February 11, 2014, 02:01 PM   #9
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Dog-town said it better then I could have.
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Old February 11, 2014, 02:11 PM   #10
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Dog-town is ABSOLUTLY correct. The lower in the link could be made into a pistol simply by removing the buttstock and putting a pistol length upper on it

What i meant in my post was a lower that was originally made into a rifle cannot then go to a pistol w/o a tax stamp

I guess i dont see the benefit to this lower. You can get good quality all metal lowers for around $99. Its not hard AT ALL to instal the pins and springs and i think you would end up with a better end product. Just my 2cents.
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Old February 11, 2014, 11:37 PM   #11
skizzums
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THANK YOU!!!!
i was hopingfor that answer, i thought i remembered somewhere that a serial number on a comlete lower with buttstock was already dedicated as a rifle, so taking off the buttstock was not an option

it didnt make any sense to me, but then again, lots of NFA rules do not

they do sell pistol lowers as a gimmick to make a few extra bucks, it has (pistol only) engraved into the lower, but they charge a hefty fee to have that piece of mind to the unknowing

like i said, i do not mind building a lower, but i have had really good results with the omni gen2 poly lower with my AR, and i cant see a stripped being any lower in costs after parts, i am looking to build this pistol strictly for HD so it wont be seeing thousands of rounds or need to be a sub moa gun, looking to buy the cheapest complete lower i can find and a model1 sales 7in upper or something similar, hopefully a build as cheap and basic as this will prove to be reliable as that is all i am really concerned with, accuracy takes a backseat in an HD gun for me

but also with an HD gun, i want to be 100% positive that i am complying with all the NFA rules, since this might be the only gun that will ever see a 2 legged target(most likely not, but you never know)

i am really close to pulling the (trigger) on a complete lower(NOT FROm CHEAPER THAN DIRT!!!!! THAT WAS ONLY AN EXAmPLE), but first i need to see if its more cost effective to build an AR pistol, buy a kel-tec PLR16 or get a krink 223 pistol

i am leaning towards building the pistol for the fun factor and cost savings, and being able to tweak it just how i like, but if i find the velocities to be SIGNIFICANTLY better from the others i may change my mind

if you can steer me in a better LOW cost 7,5inch upper(undern 500$), by all means; i hear mixed reviews about about model1

thanks for the replies
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