December 24, 2013, 12:22 AM | #1 |
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Thoughts on this...
Ive got a 9" bbl AAC upper in 300 blackout on a pistol lower. Im waiting on my form 1 to come back on a rifle lower to SBR it (might be 6-9 months). So im thinking about getting one of the Sig arm braces to put on until then.
My other thought is that when i travel with the little beast i can use the pistol lower with the brace and not have to hassle with ATF permission to take it outta state Third, if i use it as a HD gun i would rather have a pistol lower taken as evidence (if it came to that) then have a tax stamped lower. Any thoughts on this plan?? |
December 24, 2013, 03:18 AM | #2 | |
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December 24, 2013, 10:35 AM | #3 |
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Thanks for the reply. Ive got one ordered. Now i just gotta figure out where i put that standard pistol buffer tube
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December 24, 2013, 03:54 PM | #4 |
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You still need the pistol buffer tube
I just got one of the sig braces and it is just the molded plastic that slides onto your existing buffer tube so you'll need that existing tube.
One issue I ran into was my pistol buffer tube (Phase 5) was bigger then then the average pistol buffer tube and it wouldn't fit on so I had to get a smaller diameter buffer tube for the sig brace to work.
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December 24, 2013, 05:57 PM | #5 |
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I went out to the storage shed and found both a standard pistol buffer tube and an A1 tube. Im going to try em both and see which i like best for LOP. I mean which feels best attached to my arm
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December 24, 2013, 06:23 PM | #6 |
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I wouldn't use that A1 buffer tube if I were you. The use of any buffer tube that is designed to accept a stock will make it an unregistered SBR, which is why you can't use a normal carbine buffer tube on a pistol unless you machine off the notches and make it incapable of accepting a stock.
Considering a rifle buffer tube can also be used to attach a stock, if you put an un-modified A1 buffer tube on a pistol the BATFE will consider it an unregistered SBR. They make pistol buffer tubes for a reason; they're not designed to accept any kind of stock.
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December 24, 2013, 08:04 PM | #7 |
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Beg to differ
With the case of thompson/center vs US. The courts ruled that a firearm registered as a pistol can be made into a rifle by the addition of a 16"+ barrel and then have a stock attached. It can then be made back into a pistol by reversing the process. Case law here, not legal conjecture.
With an AR type firearme the process is remove the pistol length upper.. Put on the 16" upper and then slide your stock on. As long as the "short" upper and stock are never on at the same time, all is legal. Having a carbine buffer tube on a pistol lower is 100% legal and facilatates this process. |
December 24, 2013, 08:11 PM | #8 |
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I think youre misunderstanding me here; I'm talking about in the meantime while it's still a pistol and you're waiting for your Form 1 to come in.
Having a carbine or rifle buffer tube on it while it has a barrel shorter than 16" will make it an SBR. It doesnt matter if you have a stock on it yet; simply having a tube that can accept a stock counts as a stock. If you use that A1 buffer tube with your 9" Blackout upper it will be illegal. But you could use that A1 buffer tube as long as you have a 16" upper on it. Of course, all this will be legal once your Form 1 comes back.
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December 24, 2013, 08:18 PM | #9 |
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Id sure love to know where you got that info. As i said there is a court case that states the ability to turn your pistol into a rife is perfectly legal. As long as the short bbl is not on at the same time as the stock
I beleive there is a letter from BATF clarifing that ANY buffer tube is legal on a pistol. You just cant have the stock on the tube This is legal fact. These forums are riff with personal conjecture and conclusions not based in fact. The case is Thompson/Center vs. US SHORT version is avail with a quick search Not trying to argue with you but the facts are other then you are stating |
December 24, 2013, 08:39 PM | #10 | ||
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December 24, 2013, 08:42 PM | #11 | |
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December 24, 2013, 08:48 PM | #12 |
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Brother...
I absolutly understand what you are saying. Here is a link to the BATF letter stating ANY buffer tube is ok on a pistol. And the fact that the buffer tube is capable of accecpting a stock does not make it a stock in and of it self http://www.kwikrnu.com/BATFE%2520opi...52010-3-11.pdf I added a pic of the pertinent part of the letter as well. Its dated sometime in 2011 if i recall. Last edited by Sharkbite; December 24, 2013 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Info addition |
December 24, 2013, 08:58 PM | #13 |
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OK, you didn't know what I was saying because you kept referring to the Thompson case regarding turning a rife into a pistol. I wasn't talking about that at all. I was saying that the BATFE regards a buffer tube that can accept a stock as a stock.
I haven't read your link yet, but I'm prepared to admit I'm wrong on that. But your initial objections had absolutly nothing to do with what I was talking about; it wasn't until you mentioned the letter that you actually addressed what I was saying.
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December 24, 2013, 08:59 PM | #14 |
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Sharkbite, your link to the ATF letter is dead. Do you have another source? I don't recall seeing anything like this in their newsletters over the last few years.
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December 24, 2013, 09:04 PM | #15 |
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OK. Your link didn't work, but your photo did. If that photo is correct then I'll admit I was wrong on that, though it still looks like it's a bad idea to use a carbine or buffer rifle tube if you even possess the stock at all, because it says if you do you could be nabbed for possession of an SBR. So it may not be 100% illegal like I said, but it could easily be illegal if you simply own a stock for it.
I wish you had shown me that BATFE letter sooner instead of going off on a tangent about stuff I wasn't talking about. But I still thank you for the correction. From now on I'll simply say it could be considered constructive possession to use a carbine buffer tube on a pistol.
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December 24, 2013, 09:13 PM | #16 |
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If you scroll thru AR15.coms pistol section there is a sticky of ATF letters. Pg 2 has the link to the buffer tube letter.
The T/C case is relavent due to the carbine buffer tube being needed to go back and forth. Whatever... The letter should clear it up No harm in a lively discussion. Merry Christmas eve all |
December 24, 2013, 09:24 PM | #17 | ||
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December 24, 2013, 11:04 PM | #18 |
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Beyond the bickering I can tell you definitively that the sig brace WILL NOT WORK on a standard stock buffer A1 A2 or carbine. It will only accept a round tube :
From the sig website.... Features • Fits all pistols equipped with an AR-style buffer tube 1.0" - 1.2" in diameter. |
December 24, 2013, 11:32 PM | #19 |
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Does anybody know the diff between an A1 tube and the above mentioned sig brace tube?
I know the A1 is longer, but that seems it would only effect LOP. Is there a diameter diff that would make it not fit? I may have lept before i looked enough |
December 25, 2013, 03:20 AM | #20 | ||
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It wil also fit on a regular rifle buffer tube but you need to add something to it (tape or something) to make the diameter a little larger so it fits tighter. And of course you'd have to modify a rifle buffer tube also if you wanted to avoid the possession issue. Quote:
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December 27, 2013, 04:19 PM | #21 |
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Sharkbite, if it makes you feel better I follow the TC case link to the issue at hand.
In direct reply to the object at hand. FINALLY, a pistol I can attach a bayonet to without looking like an idiot Wasn't this in one of the Final Fantasy games? If there were a legal way to do it I might cut down a nagant, add the brace to it along with whatever the longest bayonet available is. The only thing I can imagine using this for is hunting from a stand in order to game laws. For every other purpose I prefer my wrist functioning. I wonder what sort of medical damage I could expect if I tried to rig something similar on my 460 Encore pistol. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; December 27, 2013 at 04:29 PM. |
December 29, 2013, 12:41 PM | #22 |
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Not sure i understand the context of your post.
Care to clarify? |
December 29, 2013, 03:38 PM | #23 | |
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December 29, 2013, 03:51 PM | #24 |
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Im going to install one of the clamp on the tube sling adaptors to prevent the slip on brace from sliding farther forward then i want.
Set the LOP once and be done |
December 29, 2013, 04:13 PM | #25 |
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That's a pretty good idea. Yeah, a lot of people complain that the SB15 is too short to use as a stock, but that's only if you slide it all the way up to the receiver.
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